Any historical event?

[Emperor Hirohito]

I play Dawn of Civilization, and the mod is Great, but one thing bothers me, is there any historical event in this mod? Cause, i was playing as Japan and not one historical event ever occur. (e.g discovery of America, or crusades etc...)

I am new to civ4 so don`t judge me so hard if i said something hilarious..

 

[Leoreth]

What exactly do you mean by historical event? EU4 style event popups about significant historical events? DoC largely doesn't work like that, and either tries to have these happen as emergent phenomena from actual game play, or by scripting the AI to behave historically under the hood.

Did the discovery/settlement of America not happen at all for you?

 

[Emperor Hirohito]

Okay, now I understand.

So these events are influenced by the behavior of artificial intelligence in the game. OK

I am new in civilization and before that I had a lot of experience with the Total War series, and there events came as "eye candy" things that would give a greater sense of immersion in the game.

I played as Japan, (scenario 600 AD, epic speed) and I played until the 18th century, and not much happened, (no discovery of America) I remember sailing around the globe happened and a some wedding between the Khmer and Chinese families.
Don`t get me wrong, your mod is fantastic and civ 4 is much deeper than Total War Series.

I probably don't have any clue about game mechanic and maybe I was too isolated as Japan.

 

[Tigranes]

Every game with this mod is different, and even if you play with the same civ, the exact sequence of events can be different. There are two things that can happen: random Python events, such as weddings and volcano eruptions, and some major events from history of Earth (like discovery of America or first to circumnavigate the globe), which are triggered by particular actions of human or AI players. For example, if your Japan is the first to contact Aztec civilization -- it will trigger "Conquerors" event, which will give you some free units to capture the Aztec empire. If AI discovered Aztecs before human player -- you will not see any information about that event, because your civilization does not know about "America", yet. I hope this makes sense to you. The best way to think about this mod as some Earth History simulator as seen from the seat of one particular civ played by human player.

 

[Leoreth]

Oh, I get what you mean. I think there is a difference in how games like Total War view and represent history and how Civ4 (or DoC) does. Total War is mostly static historically, and there are no mechanics like technology (correct me if I'm wrong, I left the series behind after Medieval 2) that model historical progression. So instead, it has certain historical events that represent historical developments and somewhat change how the game works.

In DoC, history is more a product of the player's agency (both the human player, and to a lesser degree the AI's). America is there from the start, and once you get the technology to reach it you can decide to go there or not. So in a way, it is up to you to make certain things happen, and to make "historical" things happen.

Obviously, vanilla Civ4 is even more free form than this mod, and you could probably argue that it doesn't try to represent history at all, but only uses history as the theme for its strategy mechanics. So there are a lot of elements added in RFC/DoC that make the game more "historical", but for the most part they are not set events (there are exceptions to this, for example most civs will always spawn regardless of what happens). Instead, there is stuff that happens which is contingent on player behaviour, like the American conquerors Tigranes mentioned. At the same time, the AI is "encouraged" (but not predetermined) to expand / settle / research historically, with some leeway for what that means. The player is not constrained at all, although I also tried to encourage players by other means. For example, winning the Unique Historical Victory generally requires historical behaviour. Usually your civilisation's strengths are chosen in a way that they synergise well with historical play. And so on.

In my personal preference, this vision of history as the consequence of decisions within historical constraints is both more accurate and more interesting and enjoyable than the idea of fixed historical events, and my impression is that most of the DoC community feels the same way. Not that DoC always succeeds in doing justice to these goals (it's harder to do), but I'm trying my best.

TLDR: if the game is boring because of AI inaction, let me know and I'll see what I can do. If it's boring because you're not doing anything or because you have no idea what to do, give the Unique Historical Victories a try: they're usually designed to make you go out of your comfort zone while still doing things that are historically appropriate for your civ.

(Maybe not with Japan though - its UHV is specifically intended to encourage isolation for long parts of the game, and you had that experience already.)

 

[Emperor Hirohito]

Every game with this mod is different, and even if you play with the same civ, the exact sequence of events can be different. There are two things that can happen: random Python events, such as weddings and volcano eruptions, and some major events from history of Earth (like discovery of America or first to circumnavigate the globe), which are triggered by particular actions of human or AI players. For example, if your Japan is the first to contact Aztec civilization -- it will trigger "Conquerors" event, which will give you some free units to capture the Aztec empire. If AI discovered Aztecs before human player -- you will not see any information about that event, because your civilization does not know about "America", yet. I hope this makes sense to you. The best way to think about this mod as some Earth History simulator as seen from the seat of one particular civ played by human player.

OK Tigranes, I feel much clearer about the mechanism and rules of "action - reaction" that civilization 4 (dawn of civilization) use and in fact the whole concept of "Earth Simulator", thank you to your explanation.

Oh, I get what you mean. I think there is a difference in how games like Total War view and represent history and how Civ4 (or DoC) does. Total War is mostly static historically, and there are no mechanics like technology (correct me if I'm wrong, I left the series behind after Medieval 2) that model historical progression. So instead, it has certain historical events that represent historical developments and somewhat change how the game works.

In DoC, history is more a product of the player's agency (both the human player, and to a lesser degree the AI's). America is there from the start, and once you get the technology to reach it you can decide to go there or not. So in a way, it is up to you to make certain things happen, and to make "historical" things happen.

Obviously, vanilla Civ4 is even more free form than this mod, and you could probably argue that it doesn't try to represent history at all, but only uses history as the theme for its strategy mechanics. So there are a lot of elements added in RFC/DoC that make the game more "historical", but for the most part they are not set events (there are exceptions to this, for example most civs will always spawn regardless of what happens). Instead, there is stuff that happens which is contingent on player behaviour, like the American conquerors Tigranes mentioned. At the same time, the AI is "encouraged" (but not predetermined) to expand / settle / research historically, with some leeway for what that means. The player is not constrained at all, although I also tried to encourage players by other means. For example, winning the Unique Historical Victory generally requires historical behaviour. Usually your civilisation's strengths are chosen in a way that they synergise well with historical play. And so on.

In my personal preference, this vision of history as the consequence of decisions within historical constraints is both more accurate and more interesting and enjoyable than the idea of fixed historical events, and my impression is that most of the DoC community feels the same way. Not that DoC always succeeds in doing justice to these goals (it's harder to do), but I'm trying my best.

TLDR: if the game is boring because of AI inaction, let me know and I'll see what I can do. If it's boring because you're not doing anything or because you have no idea what to do, give the Unique Historical Victories a try: they're usually designed to make you go out of your comfort zone while still doing things that are historically appropriate for your civ.

(Maybe not with Japan though - its UHV is specifically intended to encourage isolation for long parts of the game, and you had that experience already.)

You're right how Total War Series function.

Now I realize that things do not go in a linear way and that in Civilization 4 (in your MOD), things and events are actually happening on the principle of "actions and reactions".

So (speaking hypothetically) if no nation circumnavigate the globe, this event actually will not happen.
Playing as Japan i also seen that the "Unique Historical Victory" is fully matches with the Japanese aspirations and real historical situation and there I realized it was actually your desire (as the maker of the MOD) was to brought into play an additional historical element.

I did not say by no means that the RFC Dawn of Civilization is boring, actually this is the best MOD throughout the whole CivFanatics site!.

And does AI also plays on the principle of UHV or aim to conquer first and easiest city to its borders?

 

[Leoreth]

The AI has no knowledge of UHVs, and they are usually tuned to be challenging for the player, so they rarely accomplish them. But there is more to AI behaviour than just conquering the "next best" city (as its Civ4 logic would dictate). The AI has historical priorities for settlement and conquest as well, which strongly influence what they prefer, and will prevent them from expanding in certain areas altogether. For example, Spain will focus on settling Latin America, while England will focus on North America etc.

 

[Emperor Hirohito]

I like that concept, "free form but with some directions". Good Job!