Anyone beat Diety with all std options?

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by Iberian, Dec 19, 2008.

  1. Iberian

    Iberian Prince

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    There are no HOF entries that I saw for BTS that are 100% standard maps. Maybe though they just didn't score high enough. At any rate do you have wins on Deity with the following settings:

    Std size map.
    Continents
    6 AI all random
    No custom game options
    Std speed

    Basically I have found that anytime you force the AI out of the classic style of play they suck worse than ever. I normally play with no options though sometimes through in Epic which makes it easier and it isn't too much trouble (or time which I don't have) to win on Emperor. Immortal I tend to lose and Deity is a loss. I am looking for some tips or ideas to beating a regular deity game without hosing the AI any more than it already is.
     
  2. Snaaty

    Snaaty Deity

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    Search for the "deity of random" threat in the SG section... ...everything random, worst leader, map and start that you can find...

    There are some more deity games here in the strat section, just search for "deity".

    Beating deity is in BtS possible even with a weaker leader and start, but you cant compare the HoF games to standard settings:lol:


    EDIT:
    check the link in my sig: BtS-Guide for higher levels: There is also a demo game attached to the strat. I think works best on Immortal/Deity standard maps and settings
     
  3. Iberian

    Iberian Prince

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    Thanks Snaaty. I am looking more carefully at you guide still but I think that about answers it for me. Will check the SG too.

    I like the part where you don't macro every city every tile every turn. That kills me in time and boredom after the early game. Think I will start a deity game today.
     
  4. Levgre

    Levgre King

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    it is definitely doable but a good amount of starts are simply un-winnable, because of

    land, neighbors, your civ+leader, and random chance.
     
  5. silverbullet

    silverbullet King

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    I am not an expert deity player, but I know that continents map is usually considered one of the easiest maps.

    This is a sitting bull walkthrough by Rusten on a continents map:
    http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=285089


    If you search the forum you will see another Aztec walkthrough by Rusten and a Justinian walkthrough by Unconquered Sun.

    I have learned a lot from all these games and from Snaaty's guide as well (but I still win only 10% of my deity games).

    I think micromanagement is important in the first 5000 years on deity, while you still probably have only 6 cities. I wouldn't say that you need to do it every turn, but it is important to control exactly what kind of tiles you work, when is the right time to whip, what do do with a new citizen, where to run specialist etc.
    After you have a (hopefully) successful war it usually becomes less important.
     
  6. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam Top Logic

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    HoF games cook the settings to reach the highest scores, and play games repeatedly in hopes of a spectacular favorable chance occurrence. There's no way a standard game can compete with a "mature" (as in, people made a deliberate effort to place well) HoF slot. That goes for all difficulties, not just deity.
     
  7. Iranon

    Iranon Deity Whipping Boy

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    I usually play on somethign similar, only RandomMapScript or Shuffle... and I'd say I win more than half the Continents-style maps with random leaders. More than 3/4 should be winnable because, frankly, I suck at many aspects of the game.

    I find them quite pleasant, as far as Deity goes because conquering Pangaea on that level is going to be hard work. Continents gives me a more manageable chunk but usually gives me enough substance to win peacefully after I've done that.

    Deity in particular is prone to flukes... or maybe it just seems that way because for me winning big on Deity means abusing the hell out of the first convenient one I spot... so beating a score of someone who stacked the deck in their favour AND was lucky is going to be tricky. Night impossible even with nigh-perfect play if enough people tried, because you can assume that the current number one was both very good and very lucky.
     
  8. mirthadir

    mirthadir Emperor

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    Yes I have won an all standard diety. The one I'm sure of was Rameses. My neighbors were Izzy and two others. I bulbed theo early (UB FTW), built the AP (Christian) and made nice with my fellow Jews and joined in all the wars against the Buddhists. Sent off three caravels with 3 missionaries when I got optics. Vote and win.

    The biggest thing I think that helps on Deity is manageable AIs. The more predictable the AI, the better I can mange to leverage them against other AIs. I'm still at the point where if I get unlucky Deity goes down the drain.
     
  9. Levgre

    Levgre King

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    On deity each opponent has 4 cities by the time you're even thinking about your 3rd(then 5-6 each when you have 3), so good luck on Pangaea finding space for the 5-6 cities you generally need to win.
     
  10. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam Top Logic

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    It's not like the barbs let you shoot off naked settlers with any success either.
     
  11. obsolete

    obsolete Deity

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    That's sort of logical as the AI is tweaked for standard settings.

    Even back in the days of Civ III people used to always alter the terrain settings etc. to those that the AI copes with the worst. Then after pulling off a BS win on a level they don't belong at, they'd post game so everyone else could ohhhhh & ahhhhh over how well it was played.
     
  12. DMOC

    DMOC Mathematician

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    I won one game on those settings, a space race win. It was actually the same game that Snaaty put up in his guide (the demo game). Of course, that was a very easy start so I'm playing harder (standard size maps) starts now and trying my best to win those.
     
  13. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam Top Logic

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    It's an even playing field in the HoF at least, because everyone can do it. Easier of course, but even nonetheless.

    But like everyone's saying, it isn't comparable to a standard game at all.

    Chance elements in civ IV can go to extremes. In one immortal game I played, the hanging gardens went around 800 ad (!). Then in one of the monarch games posted here recently, an AI got it around 500 BC. Yikes. Both standard maps/opponent counts, too.

    By playing super strong starts and taking repeated gambles that rely on these chances, players can prove that they have the patience and game knowledge to abuse these chances to win about 1% of their games with a high score. However, placing well in HoF requires such an approach.

    It's worth noting, however, that most of the top HoF players at high difficulties actually CAN win standard settings on immortal/deity relatively easily. This is because they are not only competing against a (heavily nerfed) AI, but also each other. The people who actually make that super early culture win (lexad/jesusin/wastintime) or high score domination (killercane etc) it are usually the best (or at least close) players.

    If, for example, your goal is the fastest space win on deity, you're going to have to learn to tech faster than the AIs AND other humans competing under the same settings (assuming you both know the optimal settings). The deity AI tech pace probably starts to feel slow if you're competing against top players anyway! Sure, throwing monty or something in instead would slow them down, but I doubt it would keep them from winning, honestly.

    I kind of like the creativity that goes into how some of the spots were won, too. The highest scoring domination win ever wasn't even on pangaea!
     
  14. Dirk1302

    Dirk1302 Deity

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    Game can be won with standard settings on deity, there have been a lot of games posted by various players here to prove it.

    I don't like the way HOF is played very much although there are indeed many very good players active there that unfortunately aren't here. But it would be far more interesting for me to see them survive solidly on an extremely hard map than see them gamble on tweaked settings. Well maybe they've done that too , i would be interested in a link to such a game.
     
  15. Snaaty

    Snaaty Deity

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    This is what happens when HOF players try standard conditions on deity:D:

    http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=294810

    (The short version is: aborted game around turn 50 due to barb-problems... ...and I got ignored when I told them that exactly that would happen, seeing their build and research plan they came up at turn 0 (beeline writing and hire scientist right from the start in capital, no archery, focus on money tiles rather then production and food, not enough workers planed...:goodjob:...)

    ...

    Better check out the threats hosted by Dirk (deity challenges and deity universities) or the links already provided above (Rusten´s and USuns´ games)...
     
  16. Dirk1302

    Dirk1302 Deity

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    Do they play with barbs off on HOF that they're hit so hard here :confused:?
     
  17. DMOC

    DMOC Mathematician

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    Probably....
     
  18. obsolete

    obsolete Deity

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    LOL Snaaty!

    I was just thinking about that thread this morning. I see no one even had the courage to reply to DMOC or my last post trying to see it continued. I have to agree, this is what happens when you get players who are trying to play at a level they don`t belong. If 100% of things don`t go their way right from the start, it`s either Re-Roll time or quit.

    I should maybe bump it up again in the hopes someone tries to save face there and stick it out a bit longer. I had been looking forward to it, but seems that`s all for not.


     
  19. SnowlyWhite

    SnowlyWhite Emperor

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    dude, it's on the 1st page of the thread:

    the op clearly says he's no deity player, what do you want from him? Frankly I didn't tech archery too often either in my 1st deity games... but you learn with time :p
     
  20. obsolete

    obsolete Deity

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    Snowly, I decided to re-read through that entire thread of `Hype`just now to be fair.

    Well yes, it was admitted deity was outside their comfort level, however:

    They generated the map FIVE TIMES!
    They used the epic SPEED-CHEAT!

    Now come on, after such hefty crutches I think someone deserves a good rapping if they get pwned after that.

    All this super-duper micro-management talk and they still misplayed it. In fact, they got pwned by a couple barbs. In fact, the real hell hadn`t even started yet (nor the game). I`d like to see what they do on a regular basis when faced by a random Barbarian Uprising Event!

    I don`t fault people for trying to push the edge and tackle the next level, but I think many people would agree that team couldn`t hack its way through an IMMORTAL paper-bag.

    Perhaps it should be made as a STICKY to act as a good reminder for many :)
     

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