Anyone else worried about the map expansion feature?

[Krikkit1]

As someone who almost exclusively plays Terra maps, I'm actually worried about losing them.
My worry is that instead of only Independent Peoples in the New World, there will be full civilizations that have already claimed all of the land.
Normally I send Settlers directly to open territory, but now I might have to conquer several cities just to establish a beachhead on the New World.
Peaceful coexistence from across the pond is not an option. Even in alternate histories, there must always be an America.

They should have 4 options
1. Human player civs on both sides (MP effect only)
2. AI civs in “New World” (Default)
3. Independent People only in “New World”
4. No people in “New World”

 

[reddishrecue]

BTW, here's an example of an exploration era map. While it was an advanced start, it gives a glimpse on how it could be. 3 civs on the player continent (I assume the black/white as an independent nation), two on the other one, islands in between.

View attachment 705611

That looks like a early civ map with the different civilizations and their cities. It doesn't look like a globe yet since its early Im guessing.

 

[Elhoim]

At first they made it sound like forced Terra, but since they revealed that there are still civs on the other continent, I think it's more a forced continents situation and the whole "map opening up" thing is a marketing gimmick to put a better spin on it than "only a single map type", presenting a loss of feature scope as some exciting novelty thing.

Yeah, it really feels that way, plus the limited size and players due to simultaneous console launch.

That looks like a early civ map with the different civilizations and their cities. It doesn't look like a globe yet since its early Im guessing.

If you check the bit of sea on the left it's wrapping with the one on the right.

 

[Gedemon]

If you check the bit of sea on the left it's wrapping with the one on the right.

and a bit of snow north/south

 

[Disgustipated]

I'm just worried we won't have huge maps. That map on the stream yesterday looked so small. Granted, it was the advanced start feature, so only a small portion will be revealed to the player. But it's like they expect us to cram cities together and not have a large empire. Perhaps my fears will be alleviated when they do a proper exploration live stream.

As someone who enjoys huge maps on marathon, I hope they aren't going away./

 

[timmychompchomp]

I think it’s a fantastic idea. The open ocean is the physical barrier as it was for all people groups. Make sense to me. I doubt a mechanic like this exists , but for those concerned about the limitation, what if you can send out a colonist, explorer unit during the Antiquity age. They leave the map and based on a percentage of success, you have a starter city ready to be plopped down in an open space at the start of the exploration age. Basically you sent them out to explore and at the start of the new age you heard back from them if they survived. Not all antiquity civs would have this ability, only those well known for early exploration. That or one of the “victory” types gives you this opportunity if you meet a certain threshold.

It would also be fun to have random civs show up at the end of the antiquity age on your continent. Maybe that is one of the crisis. The sea people arrive and if not dealt with well enough they get the added benefit of immediately settling your continent at the start of the exploration age.

I also think a huge desert, jungle could function as a realistic physical barrier on pangea maps.

 

[moysturfurmer]

I think it’s a fantastic idea. The open ocean is the physical barrier as it was for all people groups. Make sense to me. I doubt a mechanic like this exists , but for those concerned about the limitation, what if you can send out a colonist, explorer unit during the Antiquity age. They leave the map and based on a percentage of success, you have a starter city ready to be plopped down in an open space at the start of the exploration age. Basically you sent them out to explore and at the start of the new age you heard back from them if they survived. Not all antiquity civs would have this ability, only those well known for early exploration. That or one of the “victory” types gives you this opportunity if you meet a certain threshold.

It would also be fun to have random civs show up at the end of the antiquity age on your continent. Maybe that is one of the crisis. The sea people arrive and if not dealt with well enough they get the added benefit of immediately settling your continent at the start of the exploration age.

I also think a huge desert, jungle could function as a realistic physical barrier on pangea maps.

I dunno, the idea of sending someone out in search of a distant shores in 200 AD, then finding the grea (great etc) grandchildren of them in 1200AD and them being culturally & politically aligned with the aims of your civ stretches credulity for me. Stretches credibility? Something’s being stretched, either way.

 

[Trengilly]

I like the expansion idea. Yes, they are forcing more 'narrative' into the Civilization game with the three age system . . . and I think this is a good thing. Civilization could use more narrative. Civ 6 is far too sandboxy for my taste.

As for the loss of Pangea maps. Why do people like Pangea? What is the point of playing a Pangea map and limiting your gameplay (Pangea maps literally remove some of the elements from the game).

I've never really used Pangea maps and I honestly don't understand their appeal? I wonder how popular they are among the player base and how often people actually play them?

 

[AriochIV]

I like the expansion idea. Yes, they are forcing more 'narrative' into the Civilization game with the three age system . . . and I think this is a good thing. Civilization could use more narrative. Civ 6 is far too sandboxy for my taste.

As for the loss of Pangea maps. Why do people like Pangea? What is the point of playing a Pangea map and limiting your gameplay (Pangea maps literally remove some of the elements from the game).

I've never really used Pangea maps and I honestly don't understand their appeal? I wonder how popular they are among the player base and how often people actually play them?

I don't always play Pangea maps, but I do play them periodically if I'm playing a land-focused early civ because otherwise, half of the other civilizations are hidden from you until it's too late in the game to meaningfully interact with them. The diplomacy and naval options are pretty lame in both Civ5 and Civ6. Exploring the map with your Caravels can be fun, but after that there's not much to it.

They're teasing more complicated naval play and we'll see how that pans out, but right now this change isn't making sense to me.

 

[Disgustipated]

As for the loss of Pangea maps. Why do people like Pangea? What is the point of playing a Pangea map and limiting your gameplay (Pangea maps literally remove some of the elements from the game).

I've never really used Pangea maps and I honestly don't understand their appeal? I wonder how popular they are among the player base and how often people actually play them?

I very rarely play them. But they can be challenging in certain conditions. I'm actually playing a Civ 5 pangea map currently (I only did it to get the silk road achievement). And the AI certainly seems more aggressive on this map type. And in Civ 6 once they run out of room to settle, they will come for you. It's certainly no fun to start in the middle and be surrounded on all sides. Of course this can happen on huge continents maps too.

I would say it's more challenging than playing on archipelago for example. Although if the Civ 7 AI can actually do naval stuff better, it could come as a welcome challenge.

 

[chaosprophet]

I'm just worried we won't have huge maps. That map on the stream yesterday looked so small. Granted, it was the advanced start feature, so only a small portion will be revealed to the player. But it's like they expect us to cram cities together and not have a large empire. Perhaps my fears will be alleviated when they do a proper exploration live stream.

As someone who enjoys huge maps on marathon, I hope they aren't going away./

One thing to take in account, when preparing saves for official streams, they are more likely to get smaller maps and faster speed to make it faster to prepare and to not take as long when showing turns.

 

[Voidwalkin]

I almost never played Pangaea. Least favorite map type.

In 6 I was all about fractal because it was the only even slightly unbalanced map type. I woulda preferred it to be more unbalanced than it typically was, retrospectively.

Continents was my go-to, but it was really just two pangaeas in 6. Just blobs without really identifiable geographic features.

Archipelago I hardly played. As a frequent Norway player that felt too much like rigging the deck in my favor. I felt half guilty about leaving precipitation on random because it'd occasionally produced a cooked game, but I did maintain it because I feel like there should be some randomness in accordance with a principle that you don't really choose the world you're born into.

 

[timmychompchomp]

I dunno, the idea of sending someone out in search of a distant shores in 200 AD, then finding the grea (great etc) grandchildren of them in 1200AD and them being culturally & politically aligned with the aims of your civ stretches credulity for me. Stretches credibility? Something’s being stretched, either way.

Too literal. I mean, immortal leader, antiquity age covering 3 to 4 thousand years of history and you have an issue with the timeline regarding my idea.

 

[Lazy sweeper]

They don't say it's the European age of discovery but with the whole "completely new continent forms" feature it feels like they're heavily implying it. I mean in the Eastern Hemisphere for example I'm fairly certain most of the cultures were at least partially aware of the other two continents connected to them.

Untill 1400 something, the world for Europeans (Christians) was flat, the southern emisphere was separated by an impassable great Ocean, and the southern emisphere people were living walking upside down. Literally the only people that circumnavigated Africa till the 1500 were the Phoenicians. No one European dared cross past the Canary islands. The world according to their view should be 1/8th of the whole world.

 

[stealth_nsk]

Untill 1400 something, the world for Europeans (Christians) was flat, the southern emisphere was separated by an impassable great Ocean, and the southern emisphere people were living walking upside down. Literally the only people that circumnavigated Africa till the 1500 were the Phoenicians. No one European dared cross past the Canary islands. The world according to their view should be 1/8th of the whole world.

I don't think that's true. The spherical Earth concept was dominant in Mediterranean by the Christianity spread and it continued through the whole Christianity era. Flat Earth believes still existed in other parts of the world, though.

 

[Elhoim]

From the Mongols: "Gain a Victory Point toward the Non Sufficit Orbis Victory for controlled Settlements in the Distant Lands and conquered Settlements in the Homelands."

It seems that gameplay wise they will be defined by Homelands and Distant Lands.

 

[Krikkit1]

From the Mongols: "Gain a Victory Point toward the Non Sufficit Orbis Victory for controlled Settlements in the Distant Lands and conquered Settlements in the Homelands."

It seems that gameplay wise they will be defined by Homelands and Distant Lands.

I think that is everything
assumption is
Homelands~”Old World”
Distant Lands~”New World”

 

[Zaarin]

Untill 1400 something, the world for Europeans (Christians) was flat, the southern emisphere was separated by an impassable great Ocean, and the southern emisphere people were living walking upside down. Literally the only people that circumnavigated Africa till the 1500 were the Phoenicians. No one European dared cross past the Canary islands. The world according to their view should be 1/8th of the whole world.

Every part of this is untrue. Europeans and Middle Easterners have known the world was round since about the 3rd century BC. Thomas Aquinas didn't even take the time to prove it; he listed it under assumptions because it had already been mathematically proven for over a thousand years. Phoenicians may have rounded the Cape of Good Hope, but conservatively there's no proof they went further than the Gold Coast. And Europeans were eagerly crossing the Canary Islands: looking for more islands. Indeed, many historians speculate that other sailors (particularly English sailors) probably made it to North America before Columbus; they just failed to find the trade winds to bring them back to Europe.

 

[Lazy sweeper]

Every part of this is untrue. Europeans and Middle Easterners have known the world was round since about the 3rd century BC. Thomas Aquinas didn't even take the time to prove it; he listed it under assumptions because it had already been mathematically proven for over a thousand years. Phoenicians may have rounded the Cape of Good Hope, but conservatively there's no proof they went further than the Gold Coast. And Europeans were eagerly crossing the Canary Islands: looking for more islands. Indeed, many historians speculate that other sailors (particularly English sailors) probably made it to North America before Columbus; they just failed to find the trade winds to bring them back to Europe.

100% but this view of a flat earth is based on the assumption that also Europeans didn't know the Americas was there, and had also the further restriction of it being glued to Christians (). No one is expecting to read on history texts that the 4th of July a fleet of three caravels reached Florida and it wasn't Columbus fleet... or the the Scots had maps of the Northern America coasts since some 1200...

The Christian world was a dark, bleak age. They didn't get the privilege of freedom of the Scots or the Vikings... or Rome to that extent, before Christianity utterly destroyed its foundations.

Middle East doesn't include China and Japan does it? Who knows for how much time they did actively trade with Americas, before the famous Zhang Ye expedition...

Regardless the Flat Earth vision was so entrenched in believers minds, that their fear of falling down once reached the end of the world was real, very real... this played a role somehow, sailors were refusing to go much further of the Canary islands... the Canary stream brings ships directly to the Americas, and as you have pointed out, some may have reached its coast, but few made the round trip home back safely...

 

[Zaarin]

Regardless the Flat Earth vision was so entrenched in believers minds, that their fear of falling down once reached the end of the world was real, very real...

No, it wasn't. There were no Flat Earth believers until the 19th century, and Columbus' crew mutinied because they ran out of water, not because they were afraid of falling off the edge of the world.