AP-2 Suleiman's conquest (RFC)

[AnotherPacifist]

Just another argument for not killing the English right now:

http://everything2.com/title/fisherman%20gains%20the%20advantage

Mandarin yu2-ren2 de2-li4. This is the rough Chinese equivalent of the Latin term tertius gaudens, although the Latin is a noun phrase ("the rejoicing third party") while the Chinese is a complete sentence. More subtle than the military saying "divide and conquer", since it implies that the third party has taken advantage of a short-sighted squabble on the part of the other two.

The story originates in the Stratagems of the Warring States, one of many early Chinese books filled with the lore and parables of political intrigue. It seems that a clam had just opened its shell to sun itself on the beach, and a sandpiper appeared and stuck its beak in to eat it. The clam promptly shut its shell on the sandpiper's beak, and neither could get free.

The sandpiper said, "If it doesn't rain today or tomorrow, there's going to be one dead clam."

The clam replied, "If you can't get your beak out today or tomorrow, there's going to be one dead sandpiper."

A fisherman came up and caught them both.

We are the fisherman, and as we've already taken France and Spain, the pairs of clams/sandpipers in the future should be:

Japan/Khmer (at war right now)
England/America (probably will be at war in the future)
Japan/China (a war we can easily foment)
Vikings/Russians (probably going to happen soon anyway without us declaring on the latter)

 

[BurnEmDown]

About Ethiopia, do they have their 2nd UHV? Because I played well into the 500's, and I didn't notice them getting it.

 

[blizzrd]

They only have 1/3, which is weird now that I looked into it a bit further. They have the Chrisitian holy city which suggested to me that they got this UHV condition, but perhaps they were too late in the timeline?

There were no European colonies in east or south Africa in 1500AD, so I don't see how they wouldn't have got this UHV condition.

EDIT: There is no timeline for founding a religion so they definitely got Chrisitianity, founded in Mogasihu in 470AD.

The only European colony in Africa (anywhere) was the former Dutch city to the south of Timbuktu. This didn't used to be part of the Ethiopian UHV area, but has this perhaps changed recently with the new patch? I thought the Ethiopian UHV area only went up the west coast as far as Mbango Kongo...

 

[AnotherPacifist]

Anyway their UHV meter is still bright white, which means that the check wasn't done. Strange.
If push comes to shove we can always found a city there and give it to the English, then declare war to get it back. We'll do that a lot later when we get those trashy northern Siberian cities (Vikings are a good recipient of barren Arctic cities, since they'll never make good use of them nor have production enough to defend them).

 

[CrossRFC]

Sorry guys, I'm really busy right now and won't be available for christmas, so just take me out of the list of players

 

[blizzrd]

We are the fisherman, and as we've already taken France and Spain, the pairs of clams/sandpipers in the future should be:

I smell something fishy.

Very nice, poetic even AP.

You make a valid point. But I still favour attacking England next.

What if when America spawns, England declares war on them and America gets a bunch of extra troops? Sandpipers are one thing but Rifleman are much harder to catch.

Sorry to hear that Crossphazer. Is there another lurker perhaps who might wish to join then?

 

[AnotherPacifist]

The trick with the Americans is patience and NEVER OPEN BORDERS. They cannot possibly support all those troops, and if they don't kill each other first, they tend to disband them. Usually in the early 1800's I find Washington defended by a cannon or two and maybe a rifleman, and when I look with an airship New York and Popham aren't any better defended. If they found a city in the Floridas it will most likely be initially undefended. If they capture Fort Albany I build a city right west of it and turn up my culture.

So I let them wear out their war against England, let them improve land and build stuff, then I pounce with tanks and infantry. (Or overwhelming grenadiers and cannon if they're not at least pleased with me)

I could have gone for attacking England but in that case we should have kept Amsterdam (to build ships there).

Crossphazer I hope I didn't offend you with my posts, when I use it's usually in jest and not against you. So at any time if you want to pick up a turn just say so.

 

[LukeUeda-Sarson]

They only have 1/3, which is weird now that I looked into it a bit further. They have the Chrisitian holy city which suggested to me that they got this UHV condition, but perhaps they were too late in the timeline?

There were no European colonies in east or south Africa in 1500AD, so I don't see how they wouldn't have got this UHV condition.

EDIT: There is no timeline for founding a religion so they definitely got Chrisitianity, founded in Mogasihu in 470AD.

The only European colony in Africa (anywhere) was the former Dutch city to the south of Timbuktu. This didn't used to be part of the Ethiopian UHV area, but has this perhaps changed recently with the new patch? I thought the Ethiopian UHV area only went up the west coast as far as Mbango Kongo...

Very odd. I wouldn't have thought the area had been changed - the cry in 1.181 was Ethiopia was too hard, not too easy.... I recently completed the 1.183 Ethiopian UHV game, but no Europeans made any colonies at any point in Africa, other than Morrocco, so can' shed any light on this.

Still I wouldn't rely on it in this game - I think you need to assume they have got that 2nd condition...

Cheers, Luke

 

[AnotherPacifist]

BurnEmDown do you want to take the next set of moves? I sent a PM for Trynthlas to join if it's OK with everybody, and he can play after you.

 

[BurnEmDown]

Got it, will play later tonight.

 

[Trynthlas]

Looking forward to it. So far following this has been very educational - I also went and read AP's previous conquest efforts. Pretty impressive!

 

[AnotherPacifist]

I suggest that people read the "discussion" on conquest victory strategies (mostly penned by me and blizzrd):

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=301599

 

[BurnEmDown]

T0 - I gift Persia and Spain Paper each so they can research better techs later.

T1 - I move some troops towards Akkerman to prepare for the Russian invasion, other troops are healing. I accidentally waste our settler's moves XP he'll be on the galleon next turn.

T2 - I have no idea what to do with all of our workers O_O so I just tell them to automatically build trade network. Crank up science to 70% with +1gpt.

T3 - Nothing special.

T4 - Rifling is in, I switch to SM which will be done in 4 turns. Our troops will soon be ready to take Moskva.

T5 - Nothing special.

T6 - I lower our science to 60% since we're at -gpt suddenly.

T7 - We get a GE in Bogazkoy, I put him to sleep (Maybe build a radio wonder with him, or the Pentagon).

T8 - SM is done, I switch to Communism, which will be done in 6 turns. Upgrade some troops to Rifleman\Cavalry.

I end my turn set here, overall it was pretty boring, but the next turn set should be exciting with war against general winter!

 

[AnotherPacifist]

To do:
1. Send workers to the New World to chop all the trees in America's spawn space and improve!
2. We still need to ferry more troops to America to protect our cities and gain xp from killing dog soldiers, and prepare for the Americans.
3. Delhi is still a good idea even though we have SC now, maybe we can get at least some cities converted to Hinduism/Buddhism before we have to switch from OR.
4. If Russia will vassalize so much the better, otherwise make peace. There's too many cities to conquer and we need occupation first.
5. Kremlin is a good idea since we're in US. Buy More! (I don't know if anybody watches Chuck outside of the US) It's cheaper now so we don't have to use the GE.
6. We should check on our spies and steal techs soon (reload if they fail--they're too precious to be lost)

 

[blizzrd]

Persia is willing to trade Military Science to us for four of our techs. Should we steal it from Germany (we have way more Espionage Points in Germany than we are ever likely to need) or trade it from Persia? I favour stealing.

We should start building another settler/missionary pair to colonize Denver (on the oil 5 tiles W of Chicago). I agree with AP that we should ship some more troops to America also.

There is a Galleon in Rome, with 3 sleeping Workers, none of whom are sailing for Ameria? We probably need more Galleons and some Frigate escorts to ferry our workers to the New World (who are currently automated building roads within German territory).

We could be upgrading some of our defensive Janissaries to Rifles also.

 

[Trynthlas]

Questions before I play (won't be for a few hours yet)...

- Do we really want our vassals researching Chemistry and Mil Sci? Seems we're about to steal Mil Sci from Germany and no sense in having two of them tech Chemistry for us. What should we have them research?

- Is the intent to declare on Russia during my set, and what are the goals of that war if so? Our army near their border seems rather small unless we're only aiming to take one or two cities max.

- What do we want to do with the GE?

 

[blizzrd]

- Do we really want our vassals researching Chemistry and Mil Sci?

Yes. See if they can research Economics for us next. We should probably trade (give) away Astronomy to at least Germany and Spain.

- Is the intent to declare on Russia during my set, and what are the goals of that war if so? Our army near their border seems rather small unless we're only aiming to take one or two cities max.

Apparently we're just looking to take (and hold) Moscow. I favoured taking London but all our troops just spent a whole set of turns walking towards Russia.

- What do we want to do with the GE?

Please save him for now (probably quite a few turns for him to do nothing). We definitely want the Pentagon which is probably the best use for him.

I think we should aim to build Trading Company + Channel Tunnel + Stock Exchange in Istanbul, but maybe Paris or Marsin will be better for commerce? Thoughts?

 

[Trynthlas]

Played a couple turns, had a question...Vikings got the plague, do we close borders with them (which may or may not help?), or just risk it?

 

[AnotherPacifist]

I agree with blizzrd's choice of wonders. I wouldn't build any national wonders in Paris due to risk of respawn.

Having 2 vassals research the same thing might be useful if you don't have enough espionage to steal it yet, because it'll cheapen the tech for you.

We're in mercantilism, might as well close borders with the Vikings (although the Germans will most likely get it and we will too).

 

[BurnEmDown]

Can't we tell them to close borders as well?