AP-2 Suleiman's conquest (RFC)

[BurnEmDown]

T1 - Ethiopia wants to trade PP for Banking and I accept, order arabia to research Philo. I set Istanbul to build a bank, as AP suggested, to maximize our civics. Cannons are set to heal and will get back to the front line in 2 and 3 turns, to capture Riga and hopefully vassalize Germany. Caravel meets Monty but we get no conquerers maybe we'll be lucky with Inca.

T2 - Nothing special.

T3 - Great Merchant born in Bogazkoy, sent to Amsterdam.

T4 - We come across Incan work boat no conquerers. Riga is bombed to 0% cultural protection, will take it next turn.

T5 - Berlin is out of resistance and I whip a courthouse. Capture Riga with no losses and Germany will now capitulate I accept.
Our next step militarily is to take Amsterdam and maybe give it to the Germans. Politically we should "dispose" of the Arabs to free up a vassal (we need one in Africa, one in America, one in eastern Asia, one in western asia and one in Europe. Arabia isn't in on a good location to get one of those places, better to replace them with Ethiopia.

I take a short pause and will continue playing in few hours, feel free to check the save and comment on what you think we should do next and how should we approach it, like I did above.

P.S. - We control the black sea, so we'll get a UHV win if we have 3 vassals in 1870, this is bad indeed, and we should probably liberate a city or two to Germany before 1700 so we don't get that UHV. (any foreign culture controlling a black sea tile and we're fine)

 

[AnotherPacifist]

No, we won't win the UHV for the Black Sea (now need 4 cities, and we only have 2 right now (the others are not on the coast).

Destabilizing Arabia by demanding all their resources and demanding civic change is a good thing.

We don't need the Aztecs as much as we do the Incans.

Consider liberating Riga and maybe Lemberg to the Germans to prevent them from collapsing (they're way outside our spawn territory and we need a stable Germany to research military techs for us. NOW we can consider capturing Mediolanum and liberating it to Germany, and maybe founding Frankfurt, either to keep or to liberate to Germany. I would not give them our Black Sea cities (because we need strong bases to invade Russia from 2 fronts: west and south of Moscow.

Now's also the time to destabilize Spain if we can, to prevent them from founding lots of cities in South America. (Are we militarily in a pact with France, or does he not have military tradition yet?)

 

[BurnEmDown]

I see, thought we needed to own all tiles in the black sea. The American vassals should be either Aztec or America, I don't really care. About liberating to Germany shouldn't we wait until we get 20+ cities?

 

[AnotherPacifist]

The 20 city thing is when we're massively big. Right now our science isn't so good, so I would favor liberating Lemberg (that'll not crimp Akkerman's space since they are our vassal) or Riga. I would keep Berlin just because it's a good site for production, and maybe after we kill the Spanish and then the French we can liberate Berlin back to them.

 

[BurnEmDown]

T5 - I liberate Riga to Germany as it was the only option other than Berlin. Moving troops towards Amsterdam

T6 - France asks to become a vassal state, NO! GM arrives in Amsterdam, 1100 gold! set research to 80% so constitution is in 4 more turns.

T7 - Arabia collapses, which means we have one more vassal spot

T8 - Our caravels comes across the Japanese empire, who are masters of Inca (bastards), land GM who will get us big piles of gold next turn

T9 - Persia finishes Music and I trade it to him plus some gold for gunpowder. GM got us 1700 gold from Kyououtououou or whatever it is. We are now super rich! I crank up the science to 100%, just because I can! And for the main event of this year... Declare war on the Dutch! Begone foul wanna-be-orange-civ, there is room for only one orange-colored civ in this world!!

T10 - Our forces are in striking position against Amsterdam. We finish constitution and I switch to Replaceable Parts. Taj is being built in Istanbul.

Now if you all wouldn't mind, I'd like to take Amsterdam myself, so for my next turnset I'll play 1 or 2 less turns

T11 - Amsterdam's culture is almost down.

T12 - I take Amsterdam with no losses, and give control to Germany immedietly. But it seems the dutch took Mediolanum, which means more city capturing fun for us I send couple of jannisaries with some cannons down there to do the mop-up job. We should be able to take that city within few turns.

 

[AnotherPacifist]

0. 1550 First, of all, I've never seen such a large stack of knights and janissaries. Whoever made this happen, kudos.

Second, I thought we had agreed on the necessity of colonizing America (specifically, New Orleans). So I switch to Astronomy (6 turns) and start a settler in Athens. (Thankfully the French have no seaports now, otherwise they would have sent lots of settlers abroad already). By the time these are done, we will have mopped up (so to speak) the remnants of Dutch/Roman/French resistance.

Third, people have been forgetting to sell maps. I sold our map for close to 600 bucks.

Fourth, Blizzrd had a good point about not bundling workers together. BurnEmUp, you had some idle workers who could have worked that turn but couldn't because they were tied up from the previous improvement. So I'm going to unbundle them.

Fifth, from my experience, Netherlands will eventually collapse if they stay in Mali (which is their capital). So I make peace with them, getting Mediolanum in the process without fighting.

Sixth, it may be the case that England was cheaper (for a certain tech), but after we vassalize the Germans, they are going to be much cheaper for techs. So I switch espionage to them.

Now that Russia is annoyed at us, we should seriously consider doing a preemptive strike...

1. 1555 We're unstable! I decide to liberate Berlin to Germany (it was that or Mediolanum, and I think we can use the Parthenon for a while until SC. We have to declare war on France since its culture will envelop the iron, and will make them much harder to kill. This has the added benefit of opening borders with Spain.

2. 1560 Our troops advance on Paris, which is protected by some mercenaries and longbows (no cannon). I also sent a stack towards Rome (because its culture is going to be problematic for Mediolanum).

3. 1565 Sigh, another great artist born in Bogazkoy. I ice him for a golden age. Sure enough, the Dutch collapse (which brings me to another point--it's liable to respawn in the future, so we should not have given Amsterdam away because we can control our stability, not Germany.)

4. 1570 We are shaky. Bombardment continues.

5. 1575 Rome is captured. I decide to keep it since it's Jewish and it's got 3 settled great people. Pompeii should be razed or disbanded. I kill all of Paris' defenders except for 5 (so that Spain can't capture it themselves).

6. 1580 Spain makes peace with France without vassalization?! So we go ahead and capture Paris. We're still stable for now, but Paris needs to be liberated to Germany if possible. Some indy triremes are blocking Sparta again, so I whip a caravel to kill them.

7. 1585 Lyon is razed with the loss of 2 cannon and 1 knight. (it's kinda hard to not lose units attacking a hill city). Pompeii is razed with no losses. I decide not to liberate Paris to Germany since it's got lots of room to expand, and if Burdeos is razed, it can grow to a big size. It also has 2 settled great generals. I notice Spain doesn't have calendar yet, so if we kill them now, we can be sure of no cities in South America, and we may not even need Inca after all! A great scientist is born in Sparta, we just need one more great person for another 8 turns of GA.

8. 1590 Resting our troops and building lots of jails right now. England and Spain cancel some trades (fine by me). I sign a defensive pact with the Vikings, knowing that Russia will eventually declare war on them, and right now we can't go invade Scandinavia (yet). We're at -10 for stability.

9. 1595 Taj Mahal finishes! I send our settler towards New Orleans. Japan asks us to declare war on Khmer, not at this time.

10. 1600 Replacement parts in. We're declared the most cultural people on earth, a bare 300 years after we spawn. I notice liberalism isn't done yet but we're too late (Japan has both Philosophy and Education). Our infrastructure is almost finished, so I choose Education (to be able to build universities). England builds Forbidden Palace. Turkish revolt in Dalmun.
All our cities have Judaism. I build a couple other monasteries so that when we switch (IF we switch) to free religion we can make use of them.

To do:
1. Collapse Spain before they get Astronomy--I leave this in the expert hands of blizzrd.
2. Build New Orleans and Chicago at the very least. We need to prepare for the Americans actively (at this time we can even choose to squash them like the Romans did with all our cannon, and we might even get to assembly line before they spawn.).
3. What I can see of the Russians is not too many troops, but sometimes they hide a stack behind what we can see, so I would still turtle on for now.
4. We can build the Opera House, the best place would be Paris (we don't want to whip our capital if we don't have to), but by the time it's built we may have to switch to emancipation). Akkerman is also a good place to combat Russian culture and whip troops if necessary.
5. We need the Statue of Liberty in Asia, not Europe (which doesn't need the extra help). Bogazkoy would be a good site to build it.
6. Bogazkoy is 5 turns from another great person. I set an engineer and priest to work, hoping we won't get another great artist. (It does need to grow so after the great person please set it back to no specialists).
7. Keep selling maps! (I have a caravel going towards the mouth of the Mediterranean and there's still a lot of the southern seas not explored yet)

 

[blizzrd]

0. 1550 First, of all, I've never seen such a large stack of knights and janissaries. Whoever made this happen, kudos.

When I last played a set of turns, we had about 10 Knights, 2 Horse Archers, 6 Cannons and 4 Janissaries. I haven't loaded the recent saves, but how's our army going these days?

Second, I thought we had agreed on the necessity of colonizing America (specifically, New Orleans).

Well if the truth be known, I think you stated it as a goal and that was as far as the discussion went. At that time, we didn't even have Optics, let alone Astronomy. I think it was more important to get Constitution for jails (our terrible stability) and the Taj Mahal than it was to get Astronomy for Galleons.

Fourth, Blizzrd had a good point about not bundling workers together.

You're mixing SG threads a bit here AP, I actually said that in another game entirely!

For the record, the point was that by grouping workers together you sometimes lose "worker turns" making improvements to the terrain. As an example, lets assume it would take one worker 5 turns to build a farm on a plains tile. If you had two workers grouped together and started building a farm, it would take them both three turns to get the job done. After the 3rd turn, the pair would become active again and wait for their next task. However, if you had two workers both ordered to build a farm separately, on the third turn one of these workers would already become active (while the other finished the farm).

I only group workers when I start to build railroads on all of my mines/quarries, by grouping 3 workers together. At all other times, I keep workers separate to maximise their use.

To do:
1. Collapse Spain before they get Astronomy--I leave this in the expert hands of blizzrd.

Sounds like a challenge! I should be able to play my turns tonight. (Note though that I'm in Melbourne, Australia which is most likely a totally different time zone to everyone else). Speaking of which, where is everyone from?

 

[BurnEmDown]

Israel here
When I bundle workers together I usually notice when one of them as something to do and seperate him for something else. But on my turnset I was more focused on the military . About the Americas if we don't kill England quickly they'll settle some cities too whichw ill make it harder for us to kill the Americans (note that they have astronomy - building observatory).

 

[AnotherPacifist]

Pennsylvania here. (Soon to be colonized by the British in the game)

[this is a rehash of what I usually do with NAm, sorry if it's old news]
Don't worry about the British building cities in the New World--in fact we want them to do so so that they will be destabilized when they flip, and maybe we'll even get the Americans as a vassal. I usually build New Orleans, Chicago and if England doesn't build Fort Albany, I build it. You've boxed in the Americans if you don't open borders with them. Give them a world map at spawn, they'll be pleased with you, and may even vassalize to you. Now since we already have 2 vassals, they might be less inclined to do so, but by then we should have the option of capitulating them. Once they're vassalized, I give them everything in North America except for New Orleans, Chicago, Denver, and maybe Edmonton (which is usually my National Park), these are key production cities.

The other option is to vassalize the Aztecs and kill the Americans, but unfortunately the former doesn't have as large an area which they're entitled to.

 

[blizzrd]

Turn 0: 1600AD
There are 7 turns of our Taj Mahal-inspired Golden Age remaining. We have vassals in Germany and Persia. Arabia isn't really much of a loss.

We have a lot of cash (2068g) but are losing -270gpt on 100% science in a race for Liberalism (with Japan I assume). Let's see what can be done to assist our economy.

We already have Cow, so I give Persia back theirs. Buy England's WM for 10g and our WM. Sell WM to Persia for 10g and their WM. Sell WM to Japan for 10g. Trade Clam to Japan for 3gpt. Sell WM to China for 20g. Trade Stone to China for 3gpt. Ethiopia is Pleased, so I ask them for 60g and their WM which they gladly give us. Trade Pig to Ethiopia for 3gpt. Sell WM to Russia for 25g. Cancel Fish for 3gpt and Marble for 2gpt to Russia and upgrade to Fish to Russia for 6gpt. Vikings are Pleased and give us 2gpt when I ask for it. Sell WM to Vikings for 10g. Sell WM to Spain for 10g. Trade Sheep to Khmer for 7gpt. Sell WM to Khmer for 20g. Sell WM to Germany for 20g and WM. Deman excess resources from Germany (Fish and 3x Cow). Sell WM to Mongolia for 10g. Going back to England, they give us 5g for our updated WM.

Overall those trades gained us +19gpt and raised 190g. And AnotherPacifist was saying we shouldn't forget to sell our world maps!

Turn 1: 1605AD
Our Galleon with New World colonists sails out into the mid-Atlantic. Then we declare war on Spain. Apparently they are thinking of colonizing the New World, which has been frowned upon. Actually they don't even know Optics yet, but a little birdie told me that they might try to research it soon. Our troops in Paris move out to the SW adjacent to Burdeos. Our caravel kills a Spanish Galley near Sevilla. Various troops start shuffling towards Madrid from around our empire.

Turn 2: 1610AD
Our amazing caravel next to Sevilla kills two more Spanish Galleys during Spain's turn, and survives!
A cannon that was moving up towards Paris is ambushed by Spanish troops coming out of Burdeos. The cannon kills two Knights before succumbing to a Pikeman. Another Cannon gets some experience on the isolated Pikeman before our solitary War Elephant mops up the situation.

Burdeos is defended by 2 Longbows, 2 Macemen and 1 Musketman. They are no match for our attackers and we raze Burdeos for no loss. A Spanish cannon and a Knight to the S of the ruins of Burdeos are killed for the loss of an unpromoted Knight.

I settle the Great General in Bogazkoy, making him the 3rd such Military Instructor there. Our Spy is currently in Riga but espionage against Germany is cheaper by half in Amsterdam, so he starts moving towards Amsterdam.

Trade Iron to Germany for 4gpt and demand a surplus Wheat from Germany. WM trading from various civs brings in another 70g.

 

[blizzrd]

Turn 3: 1615AD
Education comes in. Philosophy is next and will be learnt in 1 turn. England has just learnt Economics. I think they used a Great Merchant because they were researching Military Science last turn and still are. Now that we have Education, I start building a bunch of Universities in various cities.

Our Galleon unloads the pilgrims onto the tile SW of New Orleans (couldn't reach New Orleans this turn and walking to the forest is the same difference as being unloaded on the forest next turn). Hook up the newly spawned Corn near Istanbul and spread Islam and Christianity into Istanbul to build some monasteries there while we are still in Bureaucracy. WM trading for another 60g.

Turn 4: 1620AD
Philosophy is learnt, choose Liberalism next (3 turns). England learns Military Science. Trade Wheat to Japan for Crab. WM trading for 30g.

I was worried about Paris being impacted by London's culture and was thinking that the Opera House might actually belong in Paris. But this turn, the borders of Paris expanded. The screenshot says it all really.

 

[blizzrd]

Turn 5: 1625AD
A Great Prophet is born in Bogazkoy! We now have the trifecta (along with a Great Scientist and Great Artist who were cooling their heels) required to launch another Golden Age.

We need to swap out of Bureaucracy really soon, we are currently Shaky even in our ongoing Golden Age. But in the race for Liberalism we can't afford to go into anarchy at this stage and it wouid be a waste of part of our Golden Age also. I wait to hit the launch of the next Golden Age at this stage.

Found Marsin on the site historically preferred by the French for New Orleans.

Turn 6: 1630AD
Mongolia vassalize to China and spontanesouly go into civil war and collapse. Aztecs (vassals of England) lose a city to barbarians. A Spanish cannon suicides into some of our units next to Madrid and I kill a Spanish Knight that was outside of the city walls. WM trading (various) for 35g.

Turn 7: 1635AD
On the defensive, our Galleon kills a barbarian Privateer in the Gulf of Mexico. Barbarian War Elephants raze an independent Egyptian city. Liberalism comes in. Pick Democracy as our free tech and start on Rifling. Begin the bombardment of Madrid.

Our Economy sucks. Dropping down to 60% Science we are still losing gpt. Time has come for a big civic swap. Under the previous patch, this would have been possible without any anarchy because we could immediately launch our Golden Age (using Great People) and snap out of the anarchy. But not any longer under 1.183.

I decide to keep Organised Religion but change everything else. We still need to build lots of infrastructure (including Security Bureaus now that we have learnt Democracy) so the hammers from OR are still worth having, even if our multiple religions is going to bring our civic stability component down. The swap is to Universal Suffrage / Free Speech / Emancipation / Mercantilism / Viceroyalty. This puts us into 3 turns of anarchy (because of the large size of our empire). Any later to do this civic switch and it could cost us even more turns of anarchy.

Long live the Republic of Turkey! Here is a screenshot of our stability before the anarchy kicks in.

 

[blizzrd]

Turn 8: 1640AD
Kill some Spanish Triremes near Sparta. Kill a Spanish Cannon outside of Madrid. More bombarding of Madrid as our forces continue to arrive at the city gates. WM trading for 45g. We are Unstable. Select Bogazkoy to build the Statue of Liberty. I remove the forced engineer and priest from Bogazkoy.

Turn 9: 1645AD
Kill another Spanish Trireme near Sparta. Finish bombarding Madrid and decide to wait until all of our cannons are ready before we assault the city next turn. WM trading for 80g. We are Shaky.

Turn 10: 1650AD
Turkish revolt in San'a. As we come out of the anarchy we are again Unstable. Time to hit that emergency Golden Age button! We steal Military Tradition from Germany, who is just about to learn Military Science next turn. Sign a Defensive Pact with Russia for the extra stability this brings. We need to war with Russia eventually though, but for now we do not need to war with Russia.

The assault on Madrid goes well. For the loss of 2 Cannons, we take out a Pike, 3 Knights, a Musket, a Longbow and two Cannons. I do not raze the city, but Izzy doesn't want to capitulate even after the fall of her capital.

I take this opportunity to extend my turn set by 3 turns, what with the extended anarchy and my keen desire to finish off the job I started against Spain. If I can't do it in 3 turns I'll pass over the reins then.

Turn 11: 1655AD
Ethiopia vassalizes to us voluntarily. They are Unstable, but why not accept another vassal now that we have adopted Viceroyalty. We win the Apostolic Palace vote (from Ethiopia). Trade Wheat to England for 9gpt. Our stability is back up to Shaky. Split our forces and move out towards both Valencia (a waste of a city if ever there was one) and Santiago (the new capital).

Turn 12: 1660AD
Valencia is captured and razed for the loss of a Knight and a Cannon. Cities on hills are indeed difficult to take out without losses. Begin bombardment of Santiago. Still no sign of capitulation from Izzy.

Turn 13: 1665AD
A Great Engineer is born in Babil, which rushes 9 turns off the Statue of Liberty in Bogazkoy (2 turns to go). I pound Santiago and kill all of the defenders except the last wounded Longbow when Spain finally decides to capitulate to us.

I upgrade some of our Knights to Curassiers in Madrid before liberating the former Spanish capital. This brings Izzy back from Unstable to Stable. In hindsight, I could perhaps have kept Valencia also and now returned it but I really didn't think I'd get a capitulation and was planning to just keep Madrid and Santiago within the Iberian peninsula. Oh well, Valencia was a pointless city anyways.

We are still Shaky even in our Golden Age (5 turns to go) but this is partly due to the transition to Democracy. I've continued to build infrastructure including some new Security Bureaus (which along with Courthouses and Jails also now gives a stability bonus ) though so I think we should stabilize after our Golden Age at around Stable (sorry about the pun).

Here is a screenshot of the fall of Madrid. More to follow in a new post along with the save.

 

[blizzrd]

To do:

1. Load up the settler currently to the NE of Rome onto our Galleon near Corsica and sail for Chicago. There is currently a Jewish missionary on that Galleon to spread the faith in Chicago after we found it. Chicago should be built on the tile at the south of the lake, to the north of the Marble.
2. Rest and upgrade our Knights. Unless they are one XP away from a promotion, it is probably correct to just upgrade them to Curassiers now.
3. Prepare to launch an invasion of England, after upgrading our Janissaries to Rifles. England is researching Chemistry before Rifling so we have to be prepared to move quickly if we are to use our upcoming Rifling tech to full advantage.
4. Get our Spy back into Amsterdam and steal Military Science. Maybe build a second spy to also then steal Chemistry. Don't forget to wait for the 5 turns to get the maximum discount on the espionage cost before stealing techs!
5. Keep pushing our vassals to research techs that we aren't researching ourselves.
6. Once we have Communism, switch to both State Property and Free Religion at this time. We can probably stay in Organised Religion for a while longer.

Once England is gone, we won't really have any further serious rivals until America spawns. If we get to the stage of building tanks, the remaining civs shouldn't put up much resistance given our tech position.

 

[AnotherPacifist]

I always knew you could do it blizzrd. Big risk with jumping from HR to US, but the GA should carry us through. (It's too early for any respawns at this time anyway)

How about founding a city in the Azores and liberating it to the Spanish. I think at this time we may have enough cities to incur no loss of stability by liberating cities (whether they'll take it is another matter). I wouldn't do one in North Africa because that might cause Carthage to respawn in the future, nor in Porta Delgada (because Portugal can respawn with just 1 city there too).

In hindsight it seems that Portugal got flipped to Ceuta (the southern horn of Gibraltar) and got razed by barbs. I thought this couldn't have happened in the most recent patch?

After rifling comes in, the big push should be to damage Russia seriously (e.g. capturing their capital but no further) so that they won't be as big a problem later. We also need SC/Communism soon with our big empire, but can stay in mercantilism until we're ready.

Maybe spreading a little religion for temples/happiness is in order now (since we're out of HR we must be a little unhappy)? Thank God for vassals though.

 

[blizzrd]

I forgot to attach the save.

There is not much terrain in Europe/Middle East left for our workers to improve. I even recently improved the sheep in Corsica and the Wine in Crete. We should start ferrying workers across the Atlantic to North America pretty soon.

 

[blizzrd]

How about founding a city in the Azores and liberating it to the Spanish.

That would be cute, but I think it is a little early to be getting cute just yet. It might assist the Spanish with their stability though. I think this should only be prioritized if the Spanish stability turns downwards below Stable. They do already have a city (Melilla) in North Africa.

After rifling comes in, the big push should be to damage Russia seriously (e.g. capturing their capital but no further) so that they won't be as big a problem later.

England are a bigger problem than Russia and are currently getting bigger. Russia are so backward that they can afford to wait for now. London first, Moscow at a later date.

We also need SC/Communism soon with our big empire, but can stay in mercantilism until we're ready.

You meant State Property I assume?

Maybe spreading a little religion for temples/happiness is in order now (since we're out of HR we must be a little unhappy)? Thank God for vassals though.

Our happiness is not even a slight issue for us at the moment. Rapidly spreading multiple religions straight away is more likely to give is instability issues (under Organised Religion) than it is likely to improve our cities for the moment. Spreading religions should wait perhaps until we are ready for Free Religion (in a civic switch also to State Property once Communism is learnt).

We should probably research Scientific Method after Rifling. Thoughts?

 

[blizzrd]

As an interesting aside, if we manage to keep Ethiopia afloat for the rest of the game and also take too long to get a conquest victory for ourselves, Ethiopia will actually win a UHV. They founded Christianity and we're taking care of the Euro civs rather nicely for them at the moment.

 

[AnotherPacifist]

For the Ethiopian problem, we should let the British found some colonies in South Africa before we invade, and typically they go for South Africa AFTER North America has 2-3 cities. They have military science which makes it kinda hard for us to kill them, plus we don't have a good seaport close to them (all our ships need to be made in the Mediterranean). England is never a problem once you have infantry and tanks (they just don't have enough production and their oil is unavailable until plastics).

If the Spanish weren't our vassals, sometimes they would go conquer Mombasa themselves, but vassals tend to lose all initiative.

We need to gift optics and astronomy (or trade/sell, whichever) to the Spanish so they can colonize the New World for us. If they don't found Caracas, we need to (since the English like it for the oil eventually). We can probably conquer all of Inca and liberate to the Spanish now.

I still think that Moscow would be a better target, and if they vassalize we're set to go all the way to China and Japan (our main competitors right now in terms of military and tech potential).

Make sure we work our vassals to research techs we need (but not as much as to lose getting physics and communism first ourselves). Personally, I wouldn't even have gone to rifling if we didn't have RP, I would gone straight for SC/Communism/Physics, and with the great spy I would have stolen military science or tradition from the Germans (the curassier is already way more powerful than anything the Russians can muster at this time).

 

[AnotherPacifist]

We can also use some extra religions later on. How about sending an elite army to get Delhi and since we have OR, we can get a Hindu and Buddhist missionary sent to Istanbul before we liberate it to the Persians who need some expansion for stability purposes (or we can keep it for the shrines). Just make sure we spread Judaism to it to avoid instability.

OB with Japan is good (but not necessary since we have mercantilism). We might just be able to vassalize Khmer also if we capture enough Indian cities.