Too bad the independent Kentucky militia didn't defend the victim here. Maybe they were more involved in defending Kentucky from federal intrusion.
AP source: Census worker hanged with 'fed' on body
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If the Constitution were the only law of the United States, that'd be true. The US Code, however, has changed significantly since 1806, and it does, believe it or not, make reference to the concept of militia.
But regardless, yeah, I should have clarified with "legitimate organized militia". Whether or not that applies to the private-militia groups unaffiliated with government that VR probably meant is...different.
Ah yes, unorganized paramilitary organizations. What could possibly go wrong?
Missouri. Which, as long as Missouri remains a member of this union of States we are in, makes any issue of loyalty to the federal government moot.
Missouri Statutes Title V Chapter 41 Section 050:
"The militia of the state shall include all able-bodied citizens and all other able-bodied residents, who, in the case of the unorganized militiamore than seventeen years of age and not more than sixty-four and the Missouri reserve military force, shall be , and such other persons as may upon their own application be enrolled or commissioned therein, and who, in the case of the organized militia, shall be within the age limits and possess the physical and mental qualifications prescribed by law or regulations for the reserve components of the armed forces of the United States, except that this section shall not be construed to require militia service of any persons specifically exempted by the laws of the United States or the state of Missouri."
No offense, but uh...
http://www.scstatehouse.gov/code/t25c001.htm
Not really sure why it's listed as three different parts when it says right there that the National Guard consists of the organized militia.
Also, the same link doesn't show the unorganized militia consisting of professors at The Citadel, just that they can be designated as commissioned officers of it. I presume the actual unorganized militia consists of the same as in common law, i.e. all able bodied men within a certain age range.
Shane would be correct if he said that the National Guard is the only legitimate organized militia. Either way, that's a far cry from saying that the Michigan Militia is legitimate.
Patroklos
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I introduce you to the organized militia of South Carolina, wholly independant of the National Guard; the South Carolina State Guard:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Carolina_State_Guard
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Carolina_State_Guard
Patroklos
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We have conflicting sources, but mine seem more based in reality as the SCSG has opperated wholly independant and specifically so from the SCNG in this decade.
"As such, the State Guard is made up of unpaid volunteers, many of whom are veterans of the federal armed services or members of the federal military reserves, South Carolina Army National Guard, or South Carolina Air National Guard."
"The Governor (or the Adjutant General, if the Governor is incapacitated or unavailable) can also activate the State Guard when a significant number of the South Carolina National Guard are out of state for federal service, as is currently the case with the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. State Guard members are also trained for counter terrorism operations and other civil defense missions as part of the state's homeland defense policy."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Carolina_State_Guard
They are clearly completely seperate organizations, though I bet you they are included as "National Guard" for things such as training and standards to ensure uniformity throughout state forces.
There may be members of SCUM that are not affiliated with The Citadel, but I have never met any.
No, he wouldn't. The South Carolina State Guard is wholly seperate administratively from the South Carolina National Guard. That article mentions 20 states with a similar setup.
From your own source:
"The militia of this State consists of all able-bodied persons over seventeen years of age who are: citizens of the United States residing within this State; citizens of the United States bound by law, lawful order, or contract to serve in the militia or military forces of this State; or persons who have declared their intention to become citizens of the United States and are bound by law, lawful order, or contract to serve in the militia or military forces of this State. The militia is divided into three classes: the National Guard, the organized militia, and the unorganized militia. "
We had plenty of fun with it at school. You, on the other hand, have no reason to be speak ill of it, please justify your attack.
So far none of these examples of "militias" seem in any way related to the crazy wacko gun-nut types that wear fatigues in the woods and think their little all-white militia brotherhood is going to repel the impending invasion of fascist UN Black Helicopters. Those are the silly self-styled illegitimate militia types I think of if I ever joke about militias. And yes, the deserve ridicule, particularly of the point-and-laugh-but-secretly-worry-about-their-sanity variety.
Patroklos
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@ Bill3000
I see where the confusion is now. While there are three seperate militia organizations, there is only one Adjutant General who is in charge of all there. He is a member of the National Guard, and since the National Guard is by far the largest and most important of the three when discussing unity of command responsibility all three are simply refered to as the "National Guard" for administrative purposes. It would be unecessarily complicated for the Adutant to have to issue three seperate regulations for each militia even though they all say the same thing.
Its not just at the pinnacle that this unfied command manifests itself. There is a two Assistant Adjutant Generals, one for the all air forces and one for all ground forces, that similarly control all type assets regardless of what militia organization the belong to.
I see where the confusion is now. While there are three seperate militia organizations, there is only one Adjutant General who is in charge of all there. He is a member of the National Guard, and since the National Guard is by far the largest and most important of the three when discussing unity of command responsibility all three are simply refered to as the "National Guard" for administrative purposes. It would be unecessarily complicated for the Adutant to have to issue three seperate regulations for each militia even though they all say the same thing.
Its not just at the pinnacle that this unfied command manifests itself. There is a two Assistant Adjutant Generals, one for the all air forces and one for all ground forces, that similarly control all type assets regardless of what militia organization the belong to.
Thoughtful Thug
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It is just an isolated incident by either a lone individual or an underground organization, not enough to indicate a possible mass revolution by people who want to wage war against their own Federal government. The only thing to really be at concern is when there is a series of coordinated attacks against Federal government workers in all across the country in one single day or many days.
More on State Guards:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_Defense_Forces
In most cases, while technically separate from the National Guard (to prevent federal deployment) they still report through the same channels as the National Guard.
The point is that these are still organized government organizations. Not a bunch of people who want to protect themselves from the government (organizations like the Michigan Militia), which is what I believe Cleo was referencing in the first place.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_Defense_Forces
In most cases, while technically separate from the National Guard (to prevent federal deployment) they still report through the same channels as the National Guard.
The point is that these are still organized government organizations. Not a bunch of people who want to protect themselves from the government (organizations like the Michigan Militia), which is what I believe Cleo was referencing in the first place.
They have taken no apparent action to respond the the insulting dishonor of the Governor's wife.
Would love to read anything you have on modern state militias that exist outside that state/national guard structure.
As you can see from the other posts and your own consequent posts, its was a legitimate point. I'd appreciate an apology, but I'll settle for a retraction.
Yeah, my whole point was that, yes, obviously, we had militias historically, but that changed ~100 years ago (sorry, don't have exact date) and replaced that structure w/ something regulated formally and officially at the state level, etc...
So, I appreciate the other comments that have fleshed this out.
But even officially unorganized militia with no active ties to the State government are still legitimate and not deserving of derision necessarily.
http://www.missourimilitia.com
http://www.missourimilitia.com/FAQ.html
EDIT: .Shane., I posted direct sections of Missouri law that clearly still allow for the type of militias I have listed above. They are not something that went by the wayside 100 years ago.
http://www.missourimilitia.com
http://www.missourimilitia.com/FAQ.html
EDIT: .Shane., I posted direct sections of Missouri law that clearly still allow for the type of militias I have listed above. They are not something that went by the wayside 100 years ago.
Patroklos
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Sorry Shane, you stated specifically that the only legal militia was that of the National Guard. Your position had nothing to do with state or federal organization or anything else for that mater.
The SCUM and SCSG are not a part of the National Guard, you are in error. I don't require an admission of this on your part, it is apparent to anyone reading.
Patroklos
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I can imagine the type of people who join this sort of thing.
Spoiler :
Thats funny, because ever member I know have doctorates in subjects from political science to electrical engineering.
This is where you acknowledge you have no idea what you are talking about.
If you'd of just shot that question back at me, then there'd of been no need for name calling. que sera.
/extends hand
That said, I was essentially addressing the notion that many people have that Americans have some kind of vague right to form militias as they see fit. That, to me, is where the prior conversation had been.
So, my point, which I could've elaborated on the first time but was just doing a quickie post, was that while that may have been true in, say 1800, its not true today. Today, from what I understand, militias are well regulated and "official" meaning they emanate from some state or federal govt authority. I admit to not fully knowing exactly how the National Guard works and how so in conjunction w/ various state arrangements.
Not sure if I clarified or confused things there?
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