Appearances of Potential Leaders

[Karpius]

I don't think that's a problem when we already have leaders known for their cruel acts in the games. Plus she's female.

The Maya practiced self-mutilation and human sacrifice. Name me a Mayan leader who won't offend someone's sensibilities.

Personally, I have no problem with having the cruelest of the cruel along with the kindest of the kind represented in the game. But in another thread, I was mildly taken to task for saying that the likes of Hitler, Stalin and Pol Pot are as valid as anyone as leaders in Civilization.

 

[AnonymousSpeed]

I don't think that's a problem when we already have leaders known for their cruel acts in the games. Plus she's female.

#DoubleStandard

That's what Jane Austen (or was it Dickens?) said about Shakespeare. That probably says bad things about the state of our culture.

It's meant to, in a somewhat playful way.

Personally, I have no problem with having the cruelest of the cruel along with the kindest of the kind represented in the game. But in another thread, I was mildly taken to task for saying that the likes of Hitler, Stalin and Pol Pot are as valid as anyone as leaders in Civilization.

Well, Stalin has showed up in past games. Then again, so did the Native American civilization.

Would it be politically correct to offer you a peace pipe?

 

[Zaarin]

Personally, I have no problem with having the cruelest of the cruel along with the kindest of the kind represented in the game. But in another thread, I was mildly taken to task for saying that the likes of Hitler, Stalin and Pol Pot are as valid as anyone as leaders in Civilization.

I can't say I'd be enthusiastic to see any of those dictators in game: unlike Genghis Khan or Attila the Hun, there are still living victims or children of victims of Hitler, Stalin, and Mao. I don't approve of political correctness or whitewashing history, but I do think one can be sensitive, especially since we are talking about a game and not a history lesson.

Well, Stalin has showed up in past games. Then again, so did the Native American civilization.

Would it be politically correct to offer you a peace pipe?

Did you know that tomahawks were generally designed to double as pipes? Just an observation.

 

[AnonymousSpeed]

I can't say I'd be enthusiastic to see any of those dictators in game: unlike Genghis Khan or Attila the Hun, there are still living victims or children of victims of Hitler, Stalin, and Mao. I don't approve of political correctness or whitewashing history, but I do think one can be sensitive, especially since we are talking about a game and not a history lesson.

...let's not discuss this any further.

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaanyway, as a guy who owes a lot to Civ4, I wouldn't mind Mansa Musa and Huayna Capac basically looking like higher resolutions of their appearance in that game. I would probably prefer that, to be honest.

 

[Karpius]

there are still living victims or children of victims of Hitler, Stalin, and Mao. I don't approve of political correctness or whitewashing history, but I do think one can be sensitive, especially since we are talking about a game and not a history lesson.

Now that is most valid argument anyone has offered yet on the issue.

 

[Siptah]

I think for 2nd leaders, it is important that their leader screen is very different from the first leader of this civ. Not just the look, but also the feel that is created. Pericles and Gorgo do this nicely.

Bismarck was depicted as an old man with military clothing in civ V. And while he indeed wore things like that, I'd rather have him in civilian clothes - especially if he doesn't get a very militaristic ability. Most photographs of him show him in old age, but that wouldn't be necessary. Being old gives him some more authority in my opinion, however.

I'd actually rather have Stresemann than Bismarck, and if this would ever happen, he would have the wear the clothing style that is named after him of course.

For Louis XIV, I think we all have the same picture in mind when hearing his name.

While Maria Theresia could be said to be more successful, Austria's most iconic leader is surely Franz Josef I. His influence on Austrian culture is also seen everywhere in the country today. If KuK times are remembered, it's always his time. I would prefer if he looked old, but not too old. Firaxis would surely love the beard.

Gilgamesh isn't looking very Sumerian right now, the muscles etc. show much more of an Assyrian influence. If you want, you can see the vague abomination of a Sumerian priest king. I think any 2nd leader for this civ should look more introverted. Like the standing statues of Gudea for example.

What we are lacking in kind of representation right now is an older woman. Maria I of Portugal could fulfill that role, but I'd rather not have her back. Catherine the Great could be like that, too, but again, I'd rather not have her back. Margaret I could be depicted like that, but she would probably not fulfill the cliches most people have of Denmark. On the other hand, the viking thing is already occupied by Norway, making room for a different Denmark. But then again, depictions of her show her as a young woman. Who would be a nice option for an elderly lady leader?

 

[clapyourhands]

I think for 2nd leaders, it is important that their leader screen is very different from the first leader of this civ. Not just the look, but also the feel that is created. Pericles and Gorgo do this nicely.

Bismarck was depicted as an old man with military clothing in civ V. And while he indeed wore things like that, I'd rather have him in civilian clothes - especially if he doesn't get a very militaristic ability. Most photographs of him show him in old age, but that wouldn't be necessary. Being old gives him some more authority in my opinion, however.

I'd actually rather have Stresemann than Bismarck, and if this would ever happen, he would have the wear the clothing style that is named after him of course.

For Louis XIV, I think we all have the same picture in mind when hearing his name.

While Maria Theresia could be said to be more successful, Austria's most iconic leader is surely Franz Josef I. His influence on Austrian culture is also seen everywhere in the country today. If KuK times are remembered, it's always his time. I would prefer if he looked old, but not too old. Firaxis would surely love the beard.

Gilgamesh isn't looking very Sumerian right now, the muscles etc. show much more of an Assyrian influence. If you want, you can see the vague abomination of a Sumerian priest king. I think any 2nd leader for this civ should look more introverted. Like the standing statues of Gudea for example.

What we are lacking in kind of representation right now is an older woman. Maria I of Portugal could fulfill that role, but I'd rather not have her back. Catherine the Great could be like that, too, but again, I'd rather not have her back. Margaret I could be depicted like that, but she would probably not fulfill the cliches most people have of Denmark. On the other hand, the viking thing is already occupied by Norway, making room for a different Denmark. But then again, depictions of her show her as a young woman. Who would be a nice option for an elderly lady leader?

Talking about leaders that would realistically be chosen and probably deserve to be, Wu Zetian ruled until she was 81 years old according to Wikipedia, and Elizabeth I was 69.

 

[Siptah]

Talking about leaders that would realistically be chosen and probably deserve to be, Wu Zetian ruled until she was 81 years old according to Wikipedia, and Elizabeth I was 69.

Both would be repetitions of civ V leaders as well, however.

 

[Zaarin]

What we are lacking in kind of representation right now is an older woman. Maria I of Portugal could fulfill that role, but I'd rather not have her back. Catherine the Great could be like that, too, but again, I'd rather not have her back. Margaret I could be depicted like that, but she would probably not fulfill the cliches most people have of Denmark. On the other hand, the viking thing is already occupied by Norway, making room for a different Denmark. But then again, depictions of her show her as a young woman. Who would be a nice option for an elderly lady leader?

She's not old, but Catherine de Medici is definitely middle-aged--as is Gorgo. As I said above, I'm dying for a moody elderly Elizabeth, which as you said would contrast sharply with youthful Victoria. If we're avoiding Civ5 leaders, though, I'm having trouble thinking of many elderly women. Wilhelmina of the Netherlands was in her 60s when she abdicated. Eleanor of Aquitaine lived to be 82, but what civ would she lead? She was queen of England when she was an old woman, but she arguably had more power in France (but France hardly needs a second female ruler).

 

[God of Kings]

Civ VI even has a leader who allegedly burned books and buried scholars.

 

[Phrozen]

She's not old, but Catherine de Medici is definitely middle-aged--as is Gorgo. As I said above, I'm dying for a moody elderly Elizabeth, which as you said would contrast sharply with youthful Victoria. If we're avoiding Civ5 leaders, though, I'm having trouble thinking of many elderly women. Wilhelmina of the Netherlands was in her 60s when she abdicated. Eleanor of Aquitaine lived to be 82, but what civ would she lead? She was queen of England when she was an old woman, but she arguably had more power in France (but France hardly needs a second female ruler).

Matilda ran Normandy until her death and at that time Normandy was the most powerful duchy of France.

 

[Zaarin]

Civ VI even has a leader who allegedly burned books and buried scholars.

Emphasis on "allegedly"--the Han scholars who shared this delightful information with us were hardly Qin Shi Huang fans. I mean, his tomb is adequate proof the man was an egomaniacal brute--but the part about burying the scholars was probably apocryphal.

Matilda ran Normandy until her death and at that time Normandy was the most powerful duchy of France.

Yes please to Empress Matilda. England, Germany, France--I don't care what civ she leads, I'll take her.

 

[Kimiimaro]

Civ VI even has a leader who allegedly burned books and buried scholars.

And let's not get started on a certain leader who conquered the known world with his monstrous army.

And according to Civ VI Civilopedia, Cyrus the Great was actually a bad guy and a backstaber

 

[Phrozen]

I mean besides Gandhi who in Civ VI wasn't a massive war monger? Maybe Hojo but he died at 32.

 

[clapyourhands]

I mean besides Gandhi who in Civ VI wasn't a massive war monger? Maybe Hojo but he died at 32.

Strictly speaking TR entered a grand total of 0 wars as president. He was pretty famous for fighting in the Spanish-American War pre-election, though, so he wasn't entirely war-averse.

 

[Zaarin]

I mean besides Gandhi who in Civ VI wasn't a massive war monger? Maybe Hojo but he died at 32.

Was Jadwiga involved in any wars? Quickly skimming her Wikipedia page says she was not. Also Catherine de Medici was too busy failing to implement her domestic policy to fight wars abroad. Everyone else, plenty of wars to go around.

Strictly speaking TR entered a grand total of 0 wars as president. He was pretty famous for fighting in the Spanish-American War pre-election, though, so he wasn't entirely war-averse.

Indeed, he called it a "splendid little war."

 

[AnonymousSpeed]

Indeed, he called it a "splendid little war."

According to my recollection, we have a letter by him were he gleefully describes strangling a man to death and watching the life leave his eyes.

 

[TahamiTsunami]

So many of these leaders looked great, hoping that Firaxis will do them justice!

@Zaarin I decided to rent The New World and watched it with my family over Thanksgiving. You definitely weren't kidding about the slow pacing. After the major conflicts, the pace became a bit unbelievable for my family until Pocahontas' trip to England and my brother couldn't help but compare John Smith to Edward from Twilight due to how often he just stares at her with such a sad face! We still enjoyed parts of the movie such as the early parts of the movie with the early interactions, when John is taken into the capital to meet Powhatan, the fights between them, etc. The cinematography was great and most of the actors were great too but we just thought the pace was too slow in the second half.

@Phrozen Now I definitely want to see Menelik II with a cowboy hat in this game!

Another leader I'd like to see is Margaret I of Denmark. These pictures help give her the look of a thoughtful and capable leader. Her golden dress also looks impressive (now if only she was blonde!).

 

[Zaarin]

@Zaarin I decided to rent The New World and watched it with my family over Thanksgiving. You definitely weren't kidding about the slow pacing. After the major conflicts, the pace became a bit unbelievable for my family until Pocahontas' trip to England and my brother couldn't help but compare John Smith to Edward from Twilight due to how often he just stares at her with such a sad face! We still enjoyed parts of the movie such as the early parts of the movie with the early interactions, when John is taken into the capital to meet Powhatan, the fights between them, etc. The cinematography was great and most of the actors were great too but we just thought the pace was too slow in the second half.

I did warn you it was an art film. But yeah, John Smith was a total creeper, which is pretty accurate to history. His journals are filled with his "conquests," including quite a few scenes where women cast themselves upon him to save his life. Most of them probably never happened outside his imagination, but the one involving Pocahontas does resemble an Algonquian adoption ceremony so in that one instance he may have been telling the truth. But yeah, I mostly enjoy The New World for its strong use of imagery and its relatively accurate portrayal of events (within reason for a historical drama, at any rate), and also for not trying to gloss over the fact that Smith was a total jerk who just happened to be good at his job.

 

[Mobfire]

I love the aesthetic in this painting of the Red Queen of Palenque:

If they went with a female leader for the Maya, something similar would be beautiful.