Appeasement in the front end of the cycle (of history repeating itself again)

[Lord of Elves]

Why I was hoping you would ask, Lord of Elves. I am speaking of none other than the Bodo League Massacre (hey, why didn't the news make a big deal about this when it was revealed in 2008, I wonder... ...this was really big news, wasn't it? The US government lying about hundreds of thousands of south Koreans massacred by South Koreans, and blaming it on North Korea... no, no, not our government...

Wait, it's not possible, no way they can cover that up for 50 years is there? Well, they did somehow. I guess when you have one of the most sophisticated police state apparatuses in the world, you can pull of some hefty magic tricks.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bodo_League_massacre

read it and weep. Time to change what you "believe" about your government.

This actually doesn't change anything about what I "believe" about the United States government. Neither am I, er, reading it and weeping. You probably ought to reevaluate your opinion on the strength and efficacy of our "police state apparatus", but I know I won't get you to do that. You can dictate whatever you want, but merely because the United States did A Bad Thing still doesn't make the United States the leader or facilitator of your supremely-competent World Banker Conspiracy.

Which is what I contest, not that the United States government is now or was ever flawless (which is what you seem to prefer to debate).

 

[bugwar]

Why I was hoping you would ask, Lord of Elves. I am speaking of none other than the Bodo League Massacre (hey, why didn't the news make a big deal about this when it was revealed in 2008, I wonder... ...this was really big news, wasn't it? The US government lying about hundreds of thousands of south Koreans massacred by South Koreans, and blaming it on North Korea... no, no, not our government...

Wait, it's not possible, no way they can cover that up for 50 years is there? Well, they did somehow. I guess when you have one of the most sophisticated police state apparatuses in the world, you can pull of some hefty magic tricks.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bodo_League_massacre

read it and weep. Time to change what you "believe" about your government.

Elves, you let him set you up for that one.

 

[Lord of Elves]

Elves, you let him set you up for that one.

Do I need to be any clearer about how this doesn't change anything? I said several posts before that the United States government can and has lied internationally. I don't think it's quite as easy for that to occur now, and I certainly don't agree that the United States government has perpetrated a global conspiracy and managed to cover that up for fifty years, too.

 

[bugwar]

Your "neutral point of view" seems to have been outpaced by events, such as the recent pro-American demonstrations in Benghazi.

But telling you you're living in a special sort of internet wackjob la-la land won't necessarily help you climb out of the basement and blinking, stare into the sun. I'm still going to try though.

Why?

Does he not have the right to bombard us with his views, and if challenged on them, the option to ignore the data you present?

Don't let me seriously discourage you from trying though, the attempt (though I believe futile) will be entertaining to watch.

 

[Neomega]

Your "neutral point of view" seems to have been outpaced by events, such as the recent pro-American demonstrations in Benghazi.

But telling you you're living in a special sort of internet wackjob la-la land won't necessarily help you climb out of the basement and blinking, stare into the sun. I'm still going to try though.

No, you are the one living in a fantasy land, where muslims love to be bombed and killed by NATO warplanes and soldiers...

...but only get angry when they see videos denigrating their beloved prophet.

It so ludicrous, and yet so sad I even have to explain this to all you brainwashed zombies that your entire view is nothing more than media sleight of hand.

And by the way, I spent 36 days this summer freely wandering the Olympic mountains. I have seen much sun, and beauty and reality. You want to have a penis waving contest about who spent more time on the internet and playing computer games? A big "who's the bigger geek"-off with me?

Then save your childish insults.

I have to strongly agree with MC on this point. This is what I fear most if Iran were to obtain nuclear weapons.

Of course they will. Then America and Israel won't be able to stomp all over Israel's neighbors and continue to try take everything they can. Of course that is what Iran is aiming for. This is all hegemonic power play.

The problem with that is that if you accept that American citizenship is protection from the use of force when that citizen is in a foreign country and ostensibly carrying out terrorist plots against the US, then it becomes extremely beneficial for terrorist groups to both begin recruiting US citizens to their cause and/or plant sleepers in the US, having them obtain citizenship. If the US complies with your wishes, terrorist groups could plant US citizens across their bases all over the world and begin to act with impunity, because we can't kill our own, on the battlefield.

I'm sorry, but I just don't buy that.

Do you buy that Obama can kill Muslims simply for giving fiery anti-American speeches?

to follow your logic further, why should any American have a right to trial then? I mean, if he is a danger, why not execute him?

Also, why bother with the extradition process. Why not just send in a team of assassins and kill whoever is deemed an enemy of the state?

And do you honestly believe that terrorist groups are not trying to recruit Americans now, but suddenly would be interested if it were ruled that Obama can't just bomb an American citizen for saying bad things?

OH wait, OBAMA can't do that anyways. There is no constitutional provision to just send a missile into an American citizens house. It doesn't matter where he lives. It doesn't matter what he says.

But of course, Alwaki was just a Muslim, so who cares?

And of course, Americans again happily give up one of their protections in the name of security. As if Alwaki had some earth shattering plan that was stopped with is death.

Please.

 

[Lord of Elves]

Neomega, calling us brainwashed zombies does nothing to address the points we've made, or garner much respect for your position. Consider this a retort bugwar, that the entitlement of having an opinion is not a courageous act, and neither is refusing to ever change it. I've arrived at that position from personal experience and blahblahblah.

Enough with this posturing, you can either justify your opinion Neomega, or I guess you can continue to shout "brainwashed zombie" at everyone you disagree with until we've given up trying to have the discussion.

 

[bugwar]

No, you are the one living in a fantasy land, where muslims love to be bombed and killed by NATO warplanes and soldiers...

...but only get angry when they see videos denigrating their beloved prophet.

It so ludicrous, and yet so sad I even have to explain this to all you brainwashed zombies that your entire view is nothing more than media sleight of hand.

And by the way, I spent 36 days this summer freely wandering the Olympic mountains. I have seen much sun, and beauty and reality. You want to have a penis waving contest about who spent more time on the internet and playing computer games? A big "who's the bigger geek"-off with me?

Then save your childish insults.


Of course they will. Then America and Israel won't be able to stomp all over Israel's neighbors and continue to try take everything they can. Of course that is what Iran is aiming for. This is all hegemonic power play.



Do you buy that Obama can kill Muslims simply for giving fiery anti-American speeches?

to follow your logic further, why should any American have a right to trial then? I mean, if he is a danger, why not execute him?

Also, why bother with the extradition process. Why not just send in a team of assassins and kill whoever is deemed an enemy of the state?

And do you honestly believe that terrorist groups are not trying to recruit Americans now, but suddenly would be interested if it were ruled that Obama can't just bomb an American citizen for saying bad things?

OH wait, OBAMA can't do that anyways. There is no constitutional provision to just send a missile into an American citizens house. It doesn't matter where he lives. It doesn't matter what he says.

But of course, Alwaki was just a Muslim, so who cares?

And of course, Americans again happily give up one of their protections in the name of security. As if Alwaki had some earth shattering plan that was stopped with is death.

Please.

Neomega, it has been fun watching you bait us, but I gotta get some sleep.

Big day tomorrow, double shift on a long duration drone flight.

If you happen to glance up and see my bird from down there, be sure to wave. If you don't, well and good.

 

[Neomega]

. You can dictate whatever you want, but merely because the United States did A Bad Thing still doesn't make the United States the leader or facilitator of your supremely-competent World Banker Conspiracy.

There you go again. You keep shouting "that's conspiracy theory" to avoid the truth. I didn't say that. So stop trying to pull that garbage on me. I'm not going to keep repeating what I wrote, when you are purposefully trying to make this to be about the illuminati or something so you can sleep better at night still in love with your government you trust so much.

Sorry the truth hurts, but I'm not going to allow you to ridicule what I am writing as some big banking cabal illuminati freemason mind-beam from the moon crap.

So just stop.

Which is what I contest, not that the United States government is now or was ever flawless (which is what you seem to prefer to debate).

Once again, I see your defenses flying up, accusing me of straw-manning you. Which I am not.
You said you trusted the US government. Yes or no?
I asserted that it is illogical to trust a government that has repeatedly lied. Is this not how the conversation went?
I then showed you one of many HUGE lies.
Yet, I bet, when you tuck yourself to sleep, you will still think "I trust my government, and what they say"

Why is that? Why do you trust a government with a proven track record of lying?
Is that logical?
No , it isn't. Indeed, if I read what you have written correctly, you assert it's not because it is logical, but because you do not want your worldview skewed towards paranoia, so you can continue to have a logical view.

While that sounds nice, how can you expect to have a logical worldview, if indeed, the basis of truth is that your information is founded on lies, but you choose to ignore that, for the sake of more logical thinking?

I don't think it's quite as easy for that to occur now,

Based upon what? Is this just another belief... ..perhaps something you feel you need to do to keep a more rational and logical world view?

and I certainly don't agree that the United States government has perpetrated a global conspiracy and managed to cover that up for fifty years, too.

So, how do you explain the false attribution of a massacre upon North Korea by the US and South Korean governments?

How many people do you think had to be silenced? How many S Korean Socialists and communists had to be silenced, to be sure nobody ever knew that this was actually a south Korean massacre?

How many American soldiers had to keep their mouths shut about what they saw, and who issued the commands they would do so?

Fifty years is a long time, killing hundreds of thousands of people is hard work... ...somebody had to have come forward.... right?

Neomega, calling us brainwashed zombies does nothing to address the points we've made,

What points have you made, that I have not addressed?

or garner much respect for your position.

As I have said before, I am not here to convince, I am here to damn.
God Bless America? god Bless America? No no no no. God Damn America. God Damn America.

Enough with this posturing, you can either justify your opinion Neomega, or I guess you can continue to shout "brainwashed zombie" at everyone you disagree with until we've given up trying to have the discussion.

What opinion do you feel I have yet to justify? In which of my 400 paragraphs here do you feel I have not yet clearly explained myself? Is it that international bankers run the corporate media and military industrial complex, and use both to further enrich and empower themselves? Is that what you are interested in me expounding upon? I said I do not have time to fully explain it, but if that is what you feel I need to explain in more detail, it would be a bit of a derail, but no big deal.

Neomega, it has been fun watching you bait us, but I gotta get some sleep.

I am not baiting. I am preaching fire and brimstone to the heathens who believe America is their God.

 

[Crezth]

The US is the future and God. All opponents will perish in the neverending light of America's glory.

 

[Lord of Elves]

So, how do you explain the false attribution of a massacre upon North Korea by the US and South Korean governments?

That is how things are done in a war. I did not say it was a good thing.

How many people do you think had to be silenced? How many S Korean Socialists and communists had to be silenced, to be sure nobody ever knew that this was actually a south Korean massacre?

How many American soldiers had to keep their mouths shut about what they saw, and who issued the commands they would do so?

Who knows. What is important to this debate is that yes, it occurred. It probably wasn't a great thing, but it did happen, and we can be appropriately regretful about it if we want, but it still doesn't prove the United States government goes around massacring civilians and generally sowing evil and discord for kicks, because at the end of the day it isn't in the benefit of any nation to do so purely out of its own morbid interest in bloodshed. It never has been, never will be.

 

[Neomega]

That is how things are done in a war. I did not say it was a good thing.

Did I point that out to you because I thought you would think it was a good thing? What does this statement have to do with the fact you told me you trust a lying government because it makes your worldview more logical?

That's why I brought it to your attention. I never insinuated you would think it was a good thing. So writing a statement as the above is just pure defense mechanism.

(how does it feel to have pop-psychology reversed and pegged on you?)

Who knows. What is important to this debate is that yes, it occurred.

Wrong, what is important to this debate is that the US lied on a massive scale about something for fifty years, yet you still claim it is more logical to trust the US government, than not to, and from there, then contend therefore, since your worldview is more logical, therefore you are write.

While I contend, to trust a lying government is at it's core illogical, and will give you a warped worldview.

BTW, the only thing I base my worldview on is, "How would I feel, in that situation? What would my worldview lens look like?". Not only if I were a poor Aghan goat-herder, but also if I were a rich cigar smoking yacht salesman.

but it still doesn't prove the United States government goes around massacring civilians and generally sowing evil and discord for kicks,

For kicks? Did I say that? I could swear, I said it was for the benefit of the wealthy elite. If I did not make myself clear, I'll try again: It is for the benefit of bankers and the military industrial complex. This is a lot of people, and they are not exactly in cahoots with each other, but they definitely have very similar opinions on many matters on foreign policy, especially if it means they get to keep the spoils of war, be it oil, or the taxes levied upon the American people to pay for their weapons for the wars they are sold with a lot of flashy advertising and lies.

because at the end of the day it isn't in the benefit of any nation to do so purely out of its own morbid interest in bloodshed. It never has been, never will be.

Who said it was? The blood lust is a marketing gimmick, the raison d'etre for war propaganda. The enemy must be dehumanized and hated, and the populace must be convinced that it want to kill the enemy. It is a tool, like religion, to get the people of the United States to get into something that ultimately, will work against themselves.

 

[Dachs]

While I'm all in favor of threads featuring that crazy homeless guy who yells at pedestrians from the street corner, I did kinda like the transitory topic of this thread before it shifted to this.

 

[Skwink]

That color is an assault on the eyes.

It goes really well with Turnip CFC.

 

[Ajidica]

While I'm all in favor of threads featuring that crazy homeless guy who yells at pedestrians from the street corner, I did kinda like the transitory topic of this thread before it shifted to this.

Everybody like reading about the interwar years and how the 'Spirit of Locarno' died a horrible, brutal death.

 

[Neomega]

While I'm all in favor of threads featuring that crazy homeless guy who yells at pedestrians from the street corner, I did kinda like the transitory topic of this thread before it shifted to this.

Oh, history buff-guy? Do you think that Iran, IN ANY WAY, is similar to 1939 Nazi Germany? Or is the whole OP nothing but ignorant islama-phobic garbage, the disgusting brown note that always gets played when the war drums are beat?

this thread was Godwinned from the first sentence. I am just calling it for what it is.

that crazy homeless guy who yells at pedestrians from the street corner,

While I usually avoid the threads with juvenile theses that appeal to the kind of geeks who only watch anime lesbian porn, because they never even saw a vagina in real life, I felt I had to come in and call this one out for what it is.

 

[Lord of Elves]

Did I point that out to you because I thought you would think it was a good thing? What does this statement have to do with the fact you told me you trust a lying government because it makes your worldview more logical?

That's why I brought it to your attention. I never insinuated you would think it was a good thing. So writing a statement as the above is just pure defense mechanism.

(how does it feel to have pop-psychology reversed and pegged on you?)

I don't know why I'm letting you justify your position based on this ridiculous arena of debate. There's no need to bring in the moral compass when I have never challenged that the United States government on occasion does bad things, I don't believe you have any decent predication or good reason to believe in any way at all that the United States government successfully leads the global World Banking Conglomerate of Doom. Or is in any way associated with such an efficient and capable international venture.

I don't know why you're going on about psychology either, but that is irrelevant. The only person in this thread who has legitimately put this debate on personal terms is you. I think your fifteen minutes of fame here is just about running up.

 

[Dachs]

Everybody like reading about the interwar years and how the 'Spirit of Locarno' died a horrible, brutal death.

Bonus points if you attribute the Stresa Front to Stresemann.

Oh, history buff-guy? Do you think that Iran, IN ANY WAY, is similar to 1939 Nazi Germany? Or is the whole OP nothing but ignorant islama-phobic garbage, the disgusting brown note that always gets played when the war drums are beat?

this thread was Godwinned from the first sentence. I am just calling it for what it is.

Iran is not very similar to Nazi Germany at all.

The OP is stupid, but the overwhelming majority of people in this thread disagree with the OP, who is widely known as being off his rocker, as far as policy goes.

While I usually avoid the threads with juvenile theses that appeal to the kind of geeks who only watch anime lesbian porn, because they never even saw a vagina in real life, I felt I had to come in and call this one out for what it is.

 

[Neomega]

I don't know why I'm letting you justify your position based on this ridiculous arena of debate. There's no need to bring in the moral compass when I have never challenged that the United States government on occasion does bad things, I don't believe you have any decent predication or good reason to believe in any way at all that the United States government successfully leads the global World Banking Conglomerate of Doom. Or is in any way associated with such an efficient and capable international venture.

Well thank you for changing your mind, because I could have sworn, this particular post of yours was full of ridicule and accusations of conspiracy theory:

but merely because the United States did A Bad Thing still doesn't make the United States the leader or facilitator of your supremely-competent World Banker Conspiracy.

and this one:

Who is it that runs the evil shadow empire?

or this one:

(but how can we be sure the alien Nazis didn't fake the moon landing?), and flies in the face of good logic (never assume a conspiracy when incompetence can just as easily explain events).

or this one:

What you have said (that the United States government is complicit as the leader of some kind of global international conspiracy orchestrated by American and European bankers for the benefit of their investments) is in fact a conspiracy theory.

But geeze, now you are being so mature, I just am not sure if that was you who wrote it, or your rude, condescending little sister.

I think your fifteen minutes of fame here is just about running up.

I'll be gone forever from here soon enough, don't you worry about it. Then you can go back to trusting your lying government.

 

[Lord of Elves]

But geeze, now you are being so mature, I just am not sure if that was you who wrote it, or your rude, condescending little sister.

The postcount is just too delicious to stop acknowledging whatever it is you're talking about.

 

[ParkCungHee]

You know, I wish the history repeats itself crowd would take it's position seriously.
Appeasement is repeating itself yay!
That means in seven years, our economy will be fixed, and be stronger than it's been in 50 years.

On the other hand, sorry Republicans, but Obama's going to be elected to three more terms.