Apple vs PC

[Formaldehyde]

I've never been a fan of Apple products, generally believing them to be horrendously overpriced for their performance.

Steve always believed that most people would pay a slight premium for a product which didn't require you to become a computer expert to effectively use it, thereby wasting far more time in the process. I guess for some that wasted time and effort doesn't cost much, or they wanted to become experts in another field anyway.

He also believed in giving quite generous discounts to schools and students.

 

[Zack]

Steve always believed that most people would pay a slight premium for a product which didn't require you to become an expert to use it, thereby wasting far more time in the process. I guess for some that wasted time, effort, and hassles doesn't cost much.

See, that's silly. We live in a PC world, so it's the Mac that takes a lot of time to learn to use.

 

[aelf]

I don't know why you have to be an expert to use a PC. I've never been an expert, but I've managed damn well and found PCs much better value for money. If you're a complete noob at computers, you'd still have to learn to use a Mac, and whichever you happen to learn first will be what you're going to get used to.

 

[Formaldehyde]

Back when the Macintosh first came out, you could teach someone to use it to perform useful tasks such as word processing or making your own drawings inside an hour after opening the box. With the PC you would still be installing it and any applications you wanted to use, much less learning how to even use them.

It is still far easier to use Apple computers than PCs. Of course, this is lost on most people who only have experience with PCs. Many just see the difference in the price of the comparable hardware.

How many cars would now be sold which required you to learn the rudiments of being a mechanic in order to use them?

 

[Zack]

It is still far easier to use Apple computers than PCs.

Next up on the hit show Formaldehyde Says:

"It is far easier to speak English than Spanish."

Moderator Action: poor quality and bad taste in a single package.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[aelf]

I don't think that's a fact at all.

My first computer was actually a Mac. It was pretty simple to use, but it didn't have a whole lot of compatible software compared to PC. So eventually I switched to a PC (win 3.1), and found it just as easy to use. Different OS (note, it's not even so much a matter of hardware as of OS) have different quirks. You just have to learn to use them. At the end of the day, there's nothing about PCs that really makes them more difficult to use. Heck, you can probably install Mac OS on a PC and you won't feel the difference (although that's of course too much to ask for from complete noobs, but complete noobs just gotta learn to use a computer, whatever it may be).

 

[Wolfbeckett]

He also believed in giving quite generous discounts to schools and students.

Let's not give him credit for benevolence unduly here. He believed in steep discounts for schools and students because he wanted young people growing up learning to use Macs so they would continue to use them into adulthood. This wasn't Steve Jobs' way of giving back to the community, it was a shrewd business move calculated to increase his future customer base.

 

[MobBoss]

Back when the Macintosh first came out, you could teach someone to use it to perform useful tasks such as word processing or making your own drawings inside an hour after opening the box. With the PC you would still be installing it and any applications you wanted to use, much less learning how to even use them.

It is still far easier to use Apple computers than PCs. Of course, this is lost on most people who only have experience with PCs. Many just see the difference in the price of the comparable hardware.

How many cars would now be sold which required you to learn the rudiments of being a mechanic in order to use them?

I've owned both and I dont agree with this at all. In fact, I would say being able to fix or update them yourself far more appealing than a totally propriatary box that you continually had to take to a vendor to fix at cost.

PCs have always had a advantage over Apple products in regards to cost, and software availability, let alone raw processing speed and power. Your average user, who always does have to be cognizant of cost, has always been far better served by owning a PC as opposed to an apple computer product.

 

[Formaldehyde]

Let's not give him credit for benevolence unduly here. He believed in steep discounts for schools and students because he wanted young people growing up learning to use Macs so they would continue to use them into adulthood. This wasn't Steve Jobs' way of giving back to the community, it was a shrewd business move calculated to increase his future customer base.

I certainly ascribe it to "benevolence" and giving something back to the community. And it didn't seem to "increase his future customer base" much given that the educational discounts have existed since near the inception of the company.

PCs have always had a advantage over Apple products in regards to cost, and software availability, let alone raw processing speed and power. Your average user, who always does have to be cognizant of cost, has always been far better served by owning a PC as opposed to an apple computer product.

Many people have likened it to buying a Porsche versus a Chevrolet. There is clearly far more demand for the latter but there are those who are willing to pay a premium for a superior product.

Psystar Strikes Back, Countersues Apple

I find it strange how easy it is for people who never use Apple computers to read these counterclaims and claim they would buy a cheap Mac clone if only Apple would let them. Somehow it is magically fair that Apple opens its software for an outside hardware company without regard to the cost or effect on Apple and its brand name. Who cares about the costs that Apple had to expend to build their business and the years of battling for relevance in a world satisfied with Windows PCs?

None of that matters to these anti-elitists, who want to turn the Mac OS into a replacement for the crummy Windows world they've been living in.

Well, if they weren't a bunch of cheapskates, they could have a Mac today - or they could donate some of their hot air to the Linux cause and try that option.

Don't get me wrong: If Apple was a monopoly and employed anticompetitive behavior, that could be a problem. But stopping some low-budget company from free riding on your trademarks and hard work is not anticompetitive.

It took years for Microsoft to get where it is today. It employed every form of coercion and anticompetitive practice it knew to gain a monopoly (over 95% of the PC market at one point). Many people cheered it on, thinking a monopoly was the only way to bring order to the fractured market.

Microsoft won, but opening up the Mac OS won't reverse things overnight. Apple didn't fare well the last time they tried to license their OS. There was no gain in market share for the Mac OS, let alone for Apple. The choice to license the Mac OS almost ruined Apple's own hardware sales; Apple had negative sales growth in 1996 and 1997, the peak years for the clones. This was bad news, because Apple is a hardware company.

Psystar doesn't care about Apple or Macs. They see Macs as an easy way to promote sales. (Easy because Psystar didn't develop the software patch to make OS X work on non-Apple computers. They stole most, if not all, of the software fixes from other developers.)

Who wouldn't want everything that is great about the Mac for a lower price? Why shouldn't Psystar cash in on this demand?

But Psystar is not contributing to Apple's brand equity; it is only using it to steal customers from Apple and benefit from the Mac's growing market share.

Apple manages to stay afloat despite only having a small market share in computer sales. But it is finally slowly improving due in some part to Steve Jobs. Their solution isn't to cater to the masses but to provide superior products to those who are willing to pay for them.

 

[Wolfbeckett]

I would call that quite naive. Practically giving Macs away to schools was not done from generosity, it was done for the same reason Coke and Pepsi want soda machines in schools. To get them hooked young. The fact that one product is good for them to have and the other is undeniably not doesn't change the motivation behind the action.

 

[aelf]

I would call that quite naive. Practically giving Macs away to schools was not done from generosity, it was done for the same reason Coke and Pepsi want soda machines in schools. To get them hooked young. The fact that one product is good for them to have and the other is undeniably not doesn't change the motivation behind the action.

Which is nicely related to the issue of 'ease of use'. You'd find it easier to use what you are used to. If you take a PC user and give him a Mac, he'd likely find it hard to use, and vice versa.

But when I learned to use one then the other, I didn't find the experience much harder or more painful for either, so as far as I know (and this is dated information), there isn't actually any pronounced difference in ease of use.

 

[Formaldehyde]

I would call that quite naive. Practically giving Macs away to schools was not done from generosity, it was done for the same reason Coke and Pepsi want soda machines in schools. To get them hooked young. The fact that one product is good for them to have and the other is undeniably not doesn't change the motivation behind the action.

Yet that supposed effect clearly hasn't occurred. Children are no more getting hooked on Apple computers in schools any more than they are on soft drinks they have at home.

 

[Wolfbeckett]

Yet that supposed effect clearly hasn't occurred. Children are no more getting hooked on Apple computers in schools any more than they are on soft drinks they have at home.

Whether or not it worked is quite irrelevant to the question of what the intent was.

 

[Formaldehyde]

No, that is what their supposed intent was. I think the facts clearly show which it actually was.

 

[Alassius]

Which is nicely related to the issue of 'ease of use'. You'd find it easier to use what you are used to. If you take a PC user and give him a Mac, he'd likely find it hard to use, and vice versa.

But when I learned to use one then the other, I didn't find the experience much harder or more painful for either, so as far as I know (and this is dated information), there isn't actually any pronounced difference in ease of use.

I switched from a XP box to a Macbook a few years ago and I was actually surprised how much tweaking I had to do to get comfortable. Little things like fonts being too small, or anti-aliasing making the already ugly Chinese fonts unreadable, or the lack of page up/down keys, etc. Some conventions, like the menu bar, may look cool but is not easier to use. And the inconsistent minimise/maximise/close buttons. When I switched back to Windows 7 I found it pleasantly easy.

The gadgets, on the other hand, absolutely blew away any competitors at their respective releases. Which is probably why Apple sells more units of iPhone and a lot more of iPods than computers.

 

[Verarde]

Next up on the hit show Formaldehyde Says:

"It is far easier to speak English than Spanish."

I 'd.

But seriously, Jobs was a great visionary and innovator in technology, especially handheld devices. It will be interesting to see how the market begins to play out with his passing.

 

[MobBoss]

Many people have likened it to buying a Porsche versus a Chevrolet. There is clearly far more demand for the latter but there are those who are willing to pay a premium for a superior product.

Except its not really superior at all.

 

[Wolfbeckett]

Some might argue that a cardboard box with wheels attached to is superior to a Chevy .

 

[nonconformist]

Yeah, the problem with the Macs and stuff were they were too idiot-proofed, and more concerned with how pretty it looked rather than functionality, something Microsoft seems to have taken to heard with Vista

 

[Zelig]

The average Mac user is as smart as the average PC user.