Approx. 400 hostages taken near Chechnya

[ainwood]

Link

Negotiations begin in Russian school hostage drama
02 September 2004

MOSCOW: A heavily armed gang seized up to 400 hostages at a Russian school near Chechnya last night and threatened to kill 50 children for any member of their group killed, a senior local official said.


Itar-Tass news agency said negotiations had begun with the gang of up to 17 men and women who stormed into the secondary school in Beslan in North Ossetia province during a morning ceremony to mark the first day of the new school year.

The assault bore the signs of a Chechen rebel operation and was the latest in a recent spate of deadly attacks in Russia which have killed more than 100 people. As dusk fell there were no signs of any end to the siege around the low brick building.

Hundreds of armed security officials surrounded the school. Armoured vehicles were stationed nearby.

There were no details on the negotiations.

"They have said that for every fighter wiped out they will kill 50 children and for every fighter wounded - 20," regional Interior Minister Kazbek Dzantiyev told reporters in Beslan.

North Ossetia lies to the west of the seething Chechnya region where Russian forces have been fighting a war with separatist rebels for a decade.

PUTIN SILENT

President Vladimir Putin, whose hard-line tactics over Chechnya separatists helped bring him to power in 2000, has said nothing in public since the attack. However, the mass hostage-taking targeting a school marks a new challenge and raises the level of violence in Russia.

Earlier in the day, Putin broke off his seaside holiday to rush back to Moscow, immediately dispatching his interior minister and head of the FSB security service to Beslan.

The gang, some strapped with explosives and reported to have mined the school grounds, later set free 15 of the children, Itar-Tass news agency said.

At least eight civilians were killed in the attack - seven of them dying of wounds in hospital, news agencies quoted officials as saying. Nearly 50 children had managed to escape.

Witnesses near the school said sporadic gunfire resounded throughout the day and there was at least one loud unexplained bang from inside the school.

"Every gunshot I hear is like a shot into my heart," said one woman, Vera, tears pouring down her cheeks and whose child was among the hostages.

There was confusion over the exact number of hostages but local police eventually put the number at between 300 and 400.

Tass said 132 children were among the hostages.



RUNNING FOR HER LIFE: Soldiers help a child flee from her school where raiders, suspected to be Chechen rebels, are holding about 400 people hostage and have threatened to kill children.
Reuters Television

SECURITY COUNCIL

In a surprise move, Russia called for a UN Security Council meeting on "terrorist acts" in the country.

Moscow has for years doggedly rejected any outside role, and criticism of its own role, in Chechnya, insisting it was a domestic affair.

But recently, Russian officials have been pointing more to foreign involvement in the attacks, possibly linked to al Qaeda.

On Tuesday, a female suicide bomber blew herself up in central Moscow in an attack that killed nine and injured 51.

A week earlier, two passenger planes were blown up apparently by suicide bombers, killing 90 people and which officials say were almost certainly linked to Chechen rebels.

The wave of attacks raises questions over Putin's hard-line strategy to bring Chechen separatists to heel but in the past he has shown no signs of buckling to their pressure.

Previous hostage-taking involving Chechen rebels, seeking withdrawal of Russian troops from their region, have all ended with huge loss of life.

When rebels seized 700 hostages at a Moscow theatre in 2002, 129 hostages and 41 guerrillas were killed when Russian troops stormed the building using poisonous gas.

In 1995, Chechen separatists took hundreds of hostages in a hospital in the southern Russian town of Budennovsk. More than 100 died during the assault and a botched Russian commando raid.

The recent attacks have all been timed around last Sunday's presidential election in Chechnya which the Kremlin's candidate won by a landslide.

The school attackers rebuffed an attempt by a local Muslim leader to talk to them and demanded a meeting with top regional officials to discuss demands for the release of fighters seized in neighbouring Ingushetia in June during a rebel raid there.

Underlining how much government nerves have been shaken by the latest barrage of attacks, Russia deployed extra troops to guard dozens of nuclear facilities.

Authorities appeared to have closed main roads leading into the province and the airport, possibly fearing new attacks.

 

[MSTK]

Yeah, I read that too. It's sad

Bush is jumping in to help them, IIRC.

 

[Damnyankee]

come on children. What did they do to the chechens? This is ****ed up. Russia should send in everything it has not tied down in fiscal problems and self defense from phantom foes(which is not a lot). Go in with tanks, air assets, and use of special forces to supplement the weak training of the basic russian soldier

 

[Stevenpfo]

Both sides are in the wrong. Split hairs all you want but in the end they've done the same. Chechens terrorising the Russian populace ... The russian military doing artillery attacks on Grozny, if I remember correctly (it's been awhile).

All it means to me (if they involve the UN) is that I might end up there with a rifle in my hand and a blue beret on my head some day.

 

[Marla_Singer]

I think there's another thread talking about this. It's actually entitled : "What a school day !"

 

[Stevenpfo]

I think there's another thread talking about this. It's actually entitled : "What a school day !"

That thread has to do with a drunk school bus driver in joisey

 

[Marla_Singer]

That thread has to do with a drunk school bus driver in joisey

Yeah very serious topic.

 

[MarineCorps]

I think there's another thread talking about this. It's actually entitled : "What a school day !"

That thread deals with something else.

I heard about this. And considering the lengths people will go to protect children first, I must wonder what the hell the Russians are going to do. Hoping of course they learned from their last hostage rescue.

 

[Stevenpfo]

Sometimes i'm glad i'm just a regular troop and not someone in charge who has to make these kinds of decisions. We all know how terrorists like to have rational, calm conversations and how they always ask for simple, easily attainable things.

I can't imagine what it would do to me if my son was in that school. It makes you understand (sorta) how some people can hate other people so easily sometimes. Not that I agree with either of them anyways.

 

[Stormbringer]

I am indeed Russian, and trust me, I know very well how it is possible to hate some people as a whole. Two of my friends died in Chechnya, one other one was on a plane last week that came down, and that combined with the hospital attacks, this, the theater attack, and many many MANY others that people outside Russia simply don't hear about because they are minor make me hate Cechens beyound belief. And yes, if there was a police of genocide implemented against them, I, as well as 90% of other Russians would stand behind the government in full support. And however wrong it sounds, it is true. Freedom fighting my ass! They had their freedom and it resulted in a hospital take over. They had an elected government and it resulted in the theater attack. Finally we had Kadirov who cleaned the place up, but he got assasinated. They just won't god damn listen! And if they do not, and fight a wall just to kill Russians, then a war with the goal to kill Chechens is justified.
Some may remember me posting here earlier saying I do not wish to go to the Russian army and having problems with parents. And might call me a hypocrite because of it. For all of those people, I am flying to Yaroslavl once I turn 18, I am going to the Russian army, and I am going to fight and help win this god damned war, there is no way that 3 of my friends died for nothing.Moderator Action: warned (hard), vulgarity, profanity, trolling, and genocide
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[Ramius75]

I am indeed Russian, and trust me, I know very well how it is possible to hate some people as a whole. Two of my friends died in Chechnya, one other one was on a plane last week that came down, and that combined with the hospital attacks, this, the theater attack, and many many MANY others that people outside Russia simply don't hear about because they are minor make me hate Cechens beyound belief. And yes, if there was a police of genocide implemented against them, I, as well as 90% of other Russians would stand behind the government in full support. And however wrong it sounds, it is true. Freedom fighting my ass! They had their freedom and it resulted in a hospital take over. They had an elected government and it resulted in the theater attack. Finally we had Kadirov who cleaned the place up, but he got assasinated. They just won't god damn listen! And if they do not, and fight a wall just to kill Russians, then a war with the goal to kill Chechens is justified.
Some may remember me posting here earlier saying I do not wish to go to the Russian army and having problems with parents. And might call me a hypocrite because of it. For all of those people, I am flying to Yaroslavl once I turn 18, I am going to the Russian army, and I am going to fight and help win this god damned war, there is no way that 3 of my friends died for nothing.

If u really want to be an soldier, at least try to enlist as an officer. else dont.

Ramius

 

[Stevenpfo]

All I can say is that life isn't a movie and things aren't that simple. You going off to Chechnya and killing and very possibly getting killed won't bring back your friends or even make Russia a safer place.

Maybe I don't know anything about anything but I think you'll regret this ... And it will be one day when it's too late to change anything.

 

[zjl56]

I know it is terrible what these terrorists are doing Storm but is it worth risking your life to revenge your friends. I know you may be extremely mad but I don't know why you would want to leave the U.S to go into the Russian military. I ask you this will it help you in anyway to revenge your friends by fighting Chenchia.

 

[Stormbringer]

no, it is not going to bring my friends back. But I am Russian, and I am a nationalist. And I have a duty to my country, to serve and fight, and if before I disagreed with the war in Chechnya on a moral level, I do not anymore. I wholly support it, and believe that this war needs to be won to make Russia and Russian people safer. Two of my friends gave their lives for our country, least I can do is do what the country asks of me.

 

[TrailblazingScot]

Stalin had the right idea.

Deport them all to Siberia!


As for the hostage crisis...I'd bring those people that the hostage-takers want released to outside the school and have them shot. I'd then say quite calmly that the families of those inside the school (of the hostage takers) will be punished for what they do to the hostages and give one last chance for surrender. If there is no surrender, then in with the best soldiers at the disposal of the Russian military. After which, a round-up and imprisonment of the closest family members of those that had taken hostages.

There can be no possibility of Russia complying with the demands of these terrorists as then it means that this terrorism will be seen as a way to gain major concessions from Russia. Russia will have to take the losses on the chin and simply retaliate at the source of the terrorism so strongly that it is seen as a tactic that results in too much damage to the perpetrator.


I wish the Russians all the best in resolving this crisis with the least possible loss of life.

 

[Stevenpfo]

no, it is not going to bring my friends back. But I am Russian, and I am a nationalist. And I have a duty to my country, to serve and fight, and if before I disagreed with the war in Chechnya on a moral level, I do not anymore. I wholly support it, and believe that this war needs to be won to make Russia and Russian people safer. Two of my friends gave their lives for our country, least I can do is do what the country asks of me.

As a soldier I can tell you the last thing I want my friends to do if I ever get killed in action is to join up and go into the same hell-hole I just died in. Do what ya gotta do Storm. But ask yourself: Will taking over Chechnya stop these attacks? They will make em worse. Will wiping out the people of Chechnya make the attacks stop?

This is one of those damn situations where it might have already gone to far and there's no way of stopping it. I think this could have originally been averted by political means. Maybe it still can? It won't be easy though. Maybe a better service to your country would be to educate yourself and go there and get involved in politics.

How many lives can you save as a soldier? A couple. Maybe a platoon or two in your career if your lucky. As a politican you can save hundreds of thousands if you do well.

I just think about my own country (Canada). If our own seperatist province had of been handled in a rough way and violence and attacks were involved then it would be a lot different than it is now. Blah, I know it's a different part of the world altogether, but it's what I keep thinking of. Hope any of this has helped you at all.

 

[Stormbringer]

KoC, thank you, that is what I think.
If Chechens kill russian children, then Russia can kill 20 Chechen children for each russian child hurt and continue that way until the chechens stop. And if needed kill them all, thats the only way

 

[TrailblazingScot]

It shouldn't be random Chechen children, but those directly related to those responsible for terrorist acts.

 

[Stevenpfo]

Stalin had the right idea.

Deport them all to Siberia!


As for the hostage crisis...I'd bring those people to outside the school and have them shot. I'd then say quite calmly that the families of those inside the school (of the hostage takers) will be punished for what they do to the hostages and give one last chance for surrender. If there is no surrender, then in with the best soldiers at the disposal of the Russian military. After which, a round-up and imprisonment of the closest family members of those that had taken hostages.

There can be no possibility of Russia complying with the demands of these terrorists as then it means that this terrorism will be seen as a way to gain major concessions from Russia. Russia will have to take the losses on the chin and simply retaliate at the source of the terrorism so strongly that it is seen as a tactic that results in too much damage to the perpetrator.


I wish the Russians all the best in resolving this crisis with the least possible loss of life.

How would any of that fix anything?

They won't come outside. They maybe bastards but they're not dumb.

Good, kill their familes. That won't be like putting fertilizer on grass and asking it not to grow.

The best the Russians have? I believe they tried that in a theatre in Moscow not to long ago.

I also agree that you can't comply with terrorists. I don't agree with anything you've said but it's one of those situations I also don't have a good answer for. All options are FUBAR.

 

[Yom]

Wouldn't killing all the Chechens stop the attacks? Of course. How can they attack you if they're all dead? If I were Putin, I'd give in to whatever demands they have. Then, as soon as he has all the children in a safe place, publicly execute all of the terrorists. Hell, drag them through the towns for all to see, I don't care. Then just begin a huge relocation of troops to Chechnya, declare martial law, put curfews into effect and prevent the gathering of more than 10 people in one place. Sure it's extreme, but what these terrorists just did is sick. They're going to kill 50 children for every one of them that's killed. With enough policemen and soldiers in Chechnya this can be implemented. I realize how radical my proposal is, but desperate times call for desperate measures. This latest attack is disgusting.