Anaztazioch
Hit in the head too much
@ Los Tirano
@ Ankenaton
@ Hian the Frog
@ Anaztazioch
(?)Was that about Archery units(?)
@ Ankenaton
@ Hian the Frog
@ Anaztazioch
(?)Was that about Archery units(?)
Archer Units
- Thread starter Houman
- Start date
WarKirby
Arty person
Good point. This discussion hasn't been about archery for quite some time now.
WarKirby
WarKirby
Anaztazioch
Hit in the head too much
@warkirby
your post wasnt about it eighther
as mine
your post wasnt about it eighther
as mine
Ok, i learned archery myself and can build a longbow in one day ... the real problem is to build fine arrows ... but that is another topic.
Some of you say, bows are deadly weapon even against plate-armor.
Other say, bows doesnt work against armor and are just over-rated.
I say:
Both of you are correct. The bow might be deadly weapon. It all depends on the archer.
Accuracy / Frequence
If u train a lot with a bow you can hit a standing person out of 100 meters without any problems. And to shot 6-10 arrows per minute is also possible. In battles you are not alone ... therefore mostly the number of arrows count - you will hit an enemy - it realy doesnt matter if it is the one you aimed at.
Range
If we talk about a range around 300 meters then this is a quiet balistic flight path. You cannot aim a target like a horse, but u can aim an army. Ever seen Hero? If i remember correct, you see what it means to let arrows rain.
Damage
The damage depends most of the power of the bow. I shot around 40 lbs (20kg), good trained sportmen shot around 60-80lbs, but more isn't nessesary with todays equipment.
I shot in the forest at fake animals. If i hit a tree, my arrow got stuck in it (with only 40 lbs). Therefore i think i can kill a (non-armored) person with my relativ weak bow.
A real strong longbow with over 100 lbs do a lot more damage. But i can't bend such a bow even a little. The string will be just a strait line ... maybe some cm. And i'm sure i cannot got the string on the bow.
Under ideal circumstances such a bow with a good arrow can go trough a platemail. But i think the arrow has to hit in a good angle ... most of the shots will not pierce through a platemail.2
Training
Now we get the most important point: Training. A good archer needs years of training and was realy expansive. Most armys simply don't train their troops over years. And then u have to defend the archers very well ... if mounted knights reach archers without defence they are just ... dead.
So they require time to train, are expansive and you need a good strategie to use them.
The english army was one of the few, who trains a lot of archers ... and this training is the main reason why specially english longbowmen got such strong - even a legend.
One law from the english government was, that every man has to learn archery. And that a father has to buy his son a bow when a reached a certain age. (As a i said before: i bow is a relative cheap weapon - if u dont consume too many arrows)
Conclusion:
If u have only english-well-trained archer on the battlefield a platemail would not be worth so much. But in most battles no side has hundreds of well-trained archers ... so a platemail will give a real good protection. Untrained archers with weaker bows (nobody of us can use a 60 lbs bow) can't pierce a platemail.
Cross Bow / Musket
The advance of a cross bow is the handling. It is much easier to handle this weapon, you dont need years of training. That is the main reason, why you can find cross bows on battlefields - not the higher damage.
This is also the main reason why musket displaced the bow and the crossbow. It is much more easier to shot a musket then a bow ... it is cheaper, you can simply use much more troops, and u dont have to prepare them some years.
Some of you say, bows are deadly weapon even against plate-armor.
Other say, bows doesnt work against armor and are just over-rated.
I say:
Both of you are correct. The bow might be deadly weapon. It all depends on the archer.
Accuracy / Frequence
If u train a lot with a bow you can hit a standing person out of 100 meters without any problems. And to shot 6-10 arrows per minute is also possible. In battles you are not alone ... therefore mostly the number of arrows count - you will hit an enemy - it realy doesnt matter if it is the one you aimed at.
Range
If we talk about a range around 300 meters then this is a quiet balistic flight path. You cannot aim a target like a horse, but u can aim an army. Ever seen Hero? If i remember correct, you see what it means to let arrows rain.
Damage
The damage depends most of the power of the bow. I shot around 40 lbs (20kg), good trained sportmen shot around 60-80lbs, but more isn't nessesary with todays equipment.
I shot in the forest at fake animals. If i hit a tree, my arrow got stuck in it (with only 40 lbs). Therefore i think i can kill a (non-armored) person with my relativ weak bow.
A real strong longbow with over 100 lbs do a lot more damage. But i can't bend such a bow even a little. The string will be just a strait line ... maybe some cm. And i'm sure i cannot got the string on the bow.
Under ideal circumstances such a bow with a good arrow can go trough a platemail. But i think the arrow has to hit in a good angle ... most of the shots will not pierce through a platemail.2
Training
Now we get the most important point: Training. A good archer needs years of training and was realy expansive. Most armys simply don't train their troops over years. And then u have to defend the archers very well ... if mounted knights reach archers without defence they are just ... dead.
So they require time to train, are expansive and you need a good strategie to use them.
The english army was one of the few, who trains a lot of archers ... and this training is the main reason why specially english longbowmen got such strong - even a legend.
One law from the english government was, that every man has to learn archery. And that a father has to buy his son a bow when a reached a certain age. (As a i said before: i bow is a relative cheap weapon - if u dont consume too many arrows)
Conclusion:
If u have only english-well-trained archer on the battlefield a platemail would not be worth so much. But in most battles no side has hundreds of well-trained archers ... so a platemail will give a real good protection. Untrained archers with weaker bows (nobody of us can use a 60 lbs bow) can't pierce a platemail.
Cross Bow / Musket
The advance of a cross bow is the handling. It is much easier to handle this weapon, you dont need years of training. That is the main reason, why you can find cross bows on battlefields - not the higher damage.
This is also the main reason why musket displaced the bow and the crossbow. It is much more easier to shot a musket then a bow ... it is cheaper, you can simply use much more troops, and u dont have to prepare them some years.
Anaztazioch
Hit in the head too much
Under ideal circumstances such a bow with a good arrow can go trough a platemail. But i think the arrow has to hit in a good angle ... most of the shots will not pierce through a platemail.2
Hit a movin plate armor at long distance. Also fine steel is stronger than iron, and english longbowman use iron grots (thats the Polish word for ip of arrow).
Not to mention that steel plate is 3-4cm thick. Try shooting a longbow at flat 3cm steel on fake animal. Lets see if you can pirce it whith ioron arrow.
But I was on a brotherhood show. Some brotherhood "red loctus of shining star sea" was showing weaponary, armor of only French troops in middle ages. The fine steel armor was used only by generals (very expencive). French army used steel plate, but that steel was a "paper" steel. So longbow did stand a chance against them. They said that fine steel plate was used by French army very late, around XVI centuary.
And i never did longer resarch on French history... Hian surelly knows why
am i right "The Frog" ?
Hit a movin plate armor at long distance. Also fine steel is stronger than iron, and english longbowman use iron grots (thats the Polish word for ip of arrow).
Not to mention that steel plate is 3-4cm thick. Try shooting a longbow at flat 3cm steel on fake animal. Lets see if you can pirce it whith ioron arrow.
But I was on a brotherhood show. Some brotherhood "red loctus of shining star sea" was showing weaponary, armor of only French troops in middle ages. The fine steel armor was used only by generals (very expencive). French army used steel plate, but that steel was a "paper" steel. So longbow did stand a chance against them. They said that fine steel plate was used by French army very late, around XVI centuary.
And i never did longer resarch on French history... Hian surelly knows why
am i right "The Frog" ?
Hian the Frog
TR Designer and XML
Anaztazioch,
About plates: French Chivalry and Nobility were true fighters, real horsemen but also lords in the Royal Court.
They used 2 kinds of plate armor.
A first one of fine and low quality steel, and sometimes Iron, but very beautifull and full of heraldric drawing. This armor was made to for "glory", to impress of Nobles,...
A second type or armor was made of heavy steel. Usually these armors were not made in France, but in Milano (Italia) or Augsburg (Germany) for exemple, were where living the best blacksmiths of Armor and Weapons of Europe at that time. These armor were used in battle.
Only the richest Nobles and Knights could bought these armors. Most were using only "medium quality" plates and sometimes only chainmails.
It was after the Wars of Italy (around 1490-1530) and the conquest of Milano that the French learned how to create high quality armor. Since that time, all our armors are of the greatest quality. They were built in the major cities of France in Royal Factories.
I let you think what you want about our plates
.... Just come in France, visit our War Museum ( Musée des Invalides in Paris, www.invalides.org ) and have a look in some of our armor. With a bit luck, you can have a look on the Armor of our king François the First (beginning of the 16th century) and the armor of our king Louis XIII (when he was only 9 y.o).
The Frog.
About plates: French Chivalry and Nobility were true fighters, real horsemen but also lords in the Royal Court.
They used 2 kinds of plate armor.
A first one of fine and low quality steel, and sometimes Iron, but very beautifull and full of heraldric drawing. This armor was made to for "glory", to impress of Nobles,...
A second type or armor was made of heavy steel. Usually these armors were not made in France, but in Milano (Italia) or Augsburg (Germany) for exemple, were where living the best blacksmiths of Armor and Weapons of Europe at that time. These armor were used in battle.
Only the richest Nobles and Knights could bought these armors. Most were using only "medium quality" plates and sometimes only chainmails.It was after the Wars of Italy (around 1490-1530) and the conquest of Milano that the French learned how to create high quality armor. Since that time, all our armors are of the greatest quality. They were built in the major cities of France in Royal Factories.
I let you think what you want about our plates
.... Just come in France, visit our War Museum ( Musée des Invalides in Paris, www.invalides.org ) and have a look in some of our armor. With a bit luck, you can have a look on the Armor of our king François the First (beginning of the 16th century) and the armor of our king Louis XIII (when he was only 9 y.o). The Frog.
Anaztazioch
Hit in the head too much
Come to France ? Yuck !!! What kind of a sadist are you to propose ME such a thing !!!
But "A first one of fine and low quality steel, and sometimes Iron, but very beautifull and full of heraldric drawing". Well its suicide i say...
Atleast www.invalides.org has english version... But it dont have picures of armor.
But "A first one of fine and low quality steel, and sometimes Iron, but very beautifull and full of heraldric drawing". Well its suicide i say...
Atleast www.invalides.org has english version... But it dont have picures of armor.
Hian the Frog
TR Designer and XML
Anaztazioch said:Come to France ? Yuck !!! What kind of a sadist are you to propose ME such a thing !!!
But "A first one of fine and low quality steel, and sometimes Iron, but very beautifull and full of heraldric drawing". Well its suicide i say...
Atleast www.invalides.org has english version... But it dont have picures of armor.
Anaztazioch,
Yeap, sometimes some knights and Nobles were not rich enough to buy "good" armors. Sure, it was like a kind of suicide...
About www.invalides.org , the english version is not yet finished. Sorry. But you can see an armor. Below, a picture of the armor of our king François the First (beginning of the 16 century) when he was mounted. He was a tall guy (1.95 meter tall), very strong and a lover of Arts. Many of our famous Castle on the river Loire were built when he was king.
Have a look at this:
The Armor of François Ier
Work of Jörg Seusenhofer, blacksmith et Degen Pirger, Plate engraver.
Innsbruck, around 1539-1540
------------------------------Picture below------------------------------------
Steel, gold, leather, textile
Height: 1.99 m ; width : 0.90 m
Height with horse : 2.42 m
The Frog
Attachments
Ankenaton
"The Heretic"
Can definitely Back Froggie on this. I have a friend who is a immigrant from Milan (Milano Italia) who is currently a detective in the NYPD (New York City Police Department) and like our young master Anaz is into chivalry, heraldry and all things relating to ancient/medieval weapons/armor. His two periods of interest are Roman Legionary equipment and the armors created by the Milanese craftsmen. Some of the finest armors ever created. Many of the mercernary troop leaders of the 13th-16th centuries would often bankrupt themselves to get a good set of high quality Milano armor; used to impress the Lords, Princes and Kings who would hire them.Hian the Frog said:Anaztazioch,
About plates: French Chivalry and Nobility were true fighters, real horsemen but also lords in the Royal Court.
They used 2 kinds of plate armor.
A first one of fine and low quality steel, and sometimes Iron, but very beautifull and full of heraldric drawing. This armor was made to for "glory", to impress of Nobles,...
A second type or armor was made of heavy steel. Usually these armors were not made in France, but in Milano (Italia) or Augsburg (Germany) for exemple, were where living the best blacksmiths of Armor and Weapons of Europe at that time. These armor were used in battle.
It was after the Wars of Italy (around 1490-1530) and the conquest of Milano that the French learned how to create high quality armor. Since that time, all our armors are of the greatest quality. They were built in the major cities of France in Royal Factories.
I let you think what you want about our plates
The Frog.
Anaztazioch
Hit in the head too much
@ Hian
Was there a French noble who was not a fan of the art ?
Nice armor.
Close to mine. But i dont have a horse, nor its armor. I hire armored horses for battles/tournaments only. The biggest differance in mine and his armor is that mine has no golden symbols. Also my pauldrons are bigger, protecting back of my neck from the back and jawbone high. And i have a pigface helmet. Now to think of it i remember what i said when i stand up in armor for the first time. It was "ugh".
But this armor is not a full plate to say it. It is missing a plate protecting armpit, one of lethal tagets in human body, mostly by strong bleeding. My armor has these plates.
My armor and shield was made in Gniezno. Helmet bought from Germany, sword, pike from Czech republic, rest weapons are property of our brotherhood. He have a blacksmith that repairs armor, shields and wepaons. But he cant craft weapons or armor. No skills no iron, not good smithy.
Now i got a cracked humerus. Some idiot hit my left arm whith two-handned sword. This tournament allowed the use of iron weapons, but head attacks are counted as crime not break of tournament rules. So belive me kids, whenever some one is swinging a two-handned sword, dodge and pary the attack. I dont know, but i acted like i had a shield... lol
Anyway its off topic. But me and WarKirby are having a discution about Japan Hypaspist replacment in melee unit section, as well as in gunpowder (i love to get off topic...)
@ Ankanaton
Many of the mercernary troop leaders of the 13th-16th centuries would often bankrupt themselves to get a good set of high quality Milano armor; used to impress the Lords, Princes and Kings who would hire them.
Well its suicide as well. What use of an armor if you dont fight and dont have money for food... Education sometimes is a good thing.
But the best thing in middle ages is that you could find a 20 year old virgin much much easier than nowdays... But it also has its advanage
Was there a French noble who was not a fan of the art ?
Nice armor.
Close to mine
. But i dont have a horse, nor its armor. I hire armored horses for battles/tournaments only. The biggest differance in mine and his armor is that mine has no golden symbols. Also my pauldrons are bigger, protecting back of my neck from the back and jawbone high. And i have a pigface helmet. Now to think of it i remember what i said when i stand up in armor for the first time. It was "ugh".But this armor is not a full plate to say it. It is missing a plate protecting armpit, one of lethal tagets in human body, mostly by strong bleeding. My armor has these plates.
My armor and shield was made in Gniezno. Helmet bought from Germany, sword, pike from Czech republic, rest weapons are property of our brotherhood. He have a blacksmith that repairs armor, shields and wepaons. But he cant craft weapons or armor. No skills no iron, not good smithy.
Now i got a cracked humerus. Some idiot hit my left arm whith two-handned sword. This tournament allowed the use of iron weapons, but head attacks are counted as crime not break of tournament rules. So belive me kids, whenever some one is swinging a two-handned sword, dodge and pary the attack. I dont know, but i acted like i had a shield... lol
Anyway its off topic. But me and WarKirby are having a discution about Japan Hypaspist replacment in melee unit section, as well as in gunpowder (i love to get off topic...
)@ Ankanaton
Many of the mercernary troop leaders of the 13th-16th centuries would often bankrupt themselves to get a good set of high quality Milano armor; used to impress the Lords, Princes and Kings who would hire them.
Well its suicide as well. What use of an armor if you dont fight and dont have money for food... Education sometimes is a good thing.
But the best thing in middle ages is that you could find a 20 year old virgin much much easier than nowdays... But it also has its advanage
Anaztazioch
Hit in the head too much
@ Exterior
Cross Bow / Musket
The advance of a cross bow is the handling. It is much easier to handle this weapon, you dont need years of training. That is the main reason, why you can find cross bows on battlefields - not the higher damage.
This is also the main reason why musket displaced the bow and the crossbow. It is much more easier to shot a musket then a bow ... it is cheaper, you can simply use much more troops, and u dont have to prepare them some years.
As for crossbow... play The Elder Scroll IV: Oblivion. Got Anvil stables and find Moaiq (or simmilar). He a robes Khajjit. In one of his rumors he says
"Some peapole are wanting a bow that takes too long to reload, and uses special arrows called bolt. Moaiq say they are idiots".
A crossbow was a very accurate, easy in use (even drummers know how to use it... well most drummers) and stronger than bow. Mayby not all crossbows were so strong, it depended in its size, wood, engeinery and (?)weight(?). Another good point it was that it could be used in heavy armor, making it very good for castle siege (but wearing armor longer than 2 hours is painfull trust me).
As for muskets. I dont know how expencive was it back "than". But it was inaccurate, early(not the first one witch had 5% chance of fireing) had low effective range (100 feet), inaccurate again, slow reload, but trained musketman could reload it faster than crossbow, allowing him to put 2 or even 3 shoots at charging cavalary. Also muskets could have bayonet, making it also a melee weapon, giving a musketman chance of defending him self at close range. Another thing is bullets impact. It could easilly knock a knight off the horse (depending on saddle), as well as pirce/broke ribs, steal breath, kill a fly in mid air.
But i only tried a crossbow a few times on fair(bazaar). As for gunpowder, my father has beretta 92, i have airgun walther 90, uncle had rewolver(dont know details).
Also i used beretta 93r, d.eagle, spas-12, ak-47 and some glock (dont know witch one as all seems to look alike). Have real luck, as my friends father is in charge of military accademy, there fore i had such access to these weapons. Normally only handguns are allowed to be used by civilians. But i never got shot, nor spoken to a guy that got shot about being shot.
Cross Bow / Musket
The advance of a cross bow is the handling. It is much easier to handle this weapon, you dont need years of training. That is the main reason, why you can find cross bows on battlefields - not the higher damage.
This is also the main reason why musket displaced the bow and the crossbow. It is much more easier to shot a musket then a bow ... it is cheaper, you can simply use much more troops, and u dont have to prepare them some years.
As for crossbow... play The Elder Scroll IV: Oblivion. Got Anvil stables and find Moaiq (or simmilar). He a robes Khajjit. In one of his rumors he says
"Some peapole are wanting a bow that takes too long to reload, and uses special arrows called bolt. Moaiq say they are idiots".
A crossbow was a very accurate, easy in use (even drummers know how to use it... well most drummers) and stronger than bow. Mayby not all crossbows were so strong, it depended in its size, wood, engeinery and (?)weight(?). Another good point it was that it could be used in heavy armor, making it very good for castle siege (but wearing armor longer than 2 hours is painfull trust me).
As for muskets. I dont know how expencive was it back "than". But it was inaccurate, early(not the first one witch had 5% chance of fireing) had low effective range (100 feet), inaccurate again, slow reload, but trained musketman could reload it faster than crossbow, allowing him to put 2 or even 3 shoots at charging cavalary. Also muskets could have bayonet, making it also a melee weapon, giving a musketman chance of defending him self at close range. Another thing is bullets impact. It could easilly knock a knight off the horse (depending on saddle), as well as pirce/broke ribs, steal breath, kill a fly in mid air.
But i only tried a crossbow a few times on fair(bazaar). As for gunpowder, my father has beretta 92, i have airgun walther 90, uncle had rewolver(dont know details).
Also i used beretta 93r, d.eagle, spas-12, ak-47 and some glock (dont know witch one as all seems to look alike). Have real luck, as my friends father is in charge of military accademy, there fore i had such access to these weapons. Normally only handguns are allowed to be used by civilians. But i never got shot, nor spoken to a guy that got shot about being shot.
Los Tirano
God-King
The sheer power of crossbows, their armour penetrating potential should not be ignored. Hard to criticise a weapon when it is more powerful than the last and the first few shots can be quicker (with multiple crossbows and attendants).
Anaztazioch
Hit in the head too much
Self repeeater crossbow... Dont know if its truth or myth. Seen some but their invention date is about 1960ad...
Anyway, crossbow was an equal rival in weaponary as bow. Surelly it wasnt only becouse it was easier in use. Light crossbow does d8 damage, and heavy crossbow does d10, as shortbow only d6 and longbow d8
Anyway, crossbow was an equal rival in weaponary as bow. Surelly it wasnt only becouse it was easier in use. Light crossbow does d8 damage, and heavy crossbow does d10, as shortbow only d6 and longbow d8
Los Tirano
God-King
I take it you know the repeating crossbow used by the chinese is not a myth.
Damages in role-playing games are so completely inaccurate. Crossbows really should be raised and made easier to hit and damage with. But lets not get into that, wrong forum.
I for one am happy at the power of the TR crossbowman. Although another UU for the Romans would be the Genoese crossbowmen. Famed at one time for their skill. Extra strength point to reflect them being better crossbowmen than most others.
Damages in role-playing games are so completely inaccurate. Crossbows really should be raised and made easier to hit and damage with. But lets not get into that, wrong forum.
I for one am happy at the power of the TR crossbowman. Although another UU for the Romans would be the Genoese crossbowmen. Famed at one time for their skill. Extra strength point to reflect them being better crossbowmen than most others.
Anaztazioch
Hit in the head too much
I dont know... 7 strength unit whith 50% vs melee requireing no resource might be a bit too strong... as maceman (str 8) will have only 4 str when fighting whith melee unit.
Anaztazioch said:
After all Civ is a game - and i am the ruler of my nation - and i want to use steel grots / arrowheads
As a bowman i dont want to hit "a" moving plate armor - i want to hit just the horde of knights - anyone - anyhow ... The rate of arrows that hit will be low (i think far under 50%) and against well armored people only some of the hitting arrows will do anything ... i estimate only 1 of 20 arrows might do damage against knights. But hey - at least i can do something. And if we call well trained archers expensive - heavy Fine-Steel-Armored Chavalery is hell expensive
Ah, i nearly forget, the range of a crossbow is much shorter - the bolts just don't fly as good as an arrow.
And other aspect: You need to build arrows with feathers and arrowheads. I think a fine arrow (and u can only inflict damage with a fine arrow) is more expensive then a bolt. And in war you can make bolts simply out of everything - "Hey, sorry Generals, we need your chair to make bolts."
The melee weapon aspect of Musketmen is important - thx for the hint.
Conlucsion:
I think a good solution might be to add a unique french knight with bonus against archery units ... Everyone will be happy with this (but u will need a forge to build this unit)
And - i think - a malus for musket units against archery units is already in TR.
A first strike for musketmen and cross-bow-men reflect the relativ long reloading time (and don't give musketmen any bombard ability
)
Los Tirano
God-King
No need for that new french uu. they can be like every other civ and use musketmen against longbowmen. Or catch them in the open away from forests and hills.
They shouldnt get "a unique french knight with bonus against archery units" because historically french knights were slaughtered by longbowmen. If anything, a slight penalty vs attacking archers should be in order.
They shouldnt get "a unique french knight with bonus against archery units" because historically french knights were slaughtered by longbowmen. If anything, a slight penalty vs attacking archers should be in order.
Anaztazioch
Hit in the head too much
Ah, i nearly forget, the range of a crossbow is much shorter - the bolts just don't fly as good as an arrow.
That depends of a bolt. Some are crappy, some are good. You said u make a bow, but its hard to make and arrow. Think bolt is differant ? Thou its shorter (usually) doesnt mean that well crafted cannot fly as good as arrow + they fly faster. But if it goes to effedctive range, yes crossbow has it shorter, as shorter and often lighter bolt doesnt fly in air so smoothlya s arrow. Thats the point why crossbow wasnt a "rain" weapon.
And other aspect: You need to build arrows with feathers and arrowheads. I think a fine arrow (and u can only inflict damage with a fine arrow) is more expensive then a bolt. And in war you can make bolts simply out of everything - "Hey, sorry Generals, we need your chair to make bolts."
You can make arrow also out of everything... But are you talking about effect or quanity ? As you lost one.
I think a good solution might be to add a unique french knight with bonus against archery units ... Everyone will be happy with this.
Think Hian the Frog might be happy whith this, but alas his history knowlage, he wont agree. As he said, the armor used by French knight was low quality, but beautiful. Well crafted was very expansive... like king may afford it, and some lords. Alas my crude plate armor was crafted by 2 blacksmiths in 4 weeks, as i asked it took them 25 days, working 5 hours a day. In that time i had my order was only one, exept 2 long swords, witch take about 8 hours (depanding on quality) to craft by one blacksmith. Now think how long a well crafted armor must be crafted. Not to mention it must have some coloristic beautifull upgrades... As i cant belive a rich French would buy not "fashion" armor.
A first strike for musketmen and cross-bow-men reflect the relativ long reloading time (and don't give musketmen any bombard ability)
Ever shot a musket ? Fill it whith powder, put bullet in, some block to increase pressure, than use stick to "hammer" it down. So a first strike... well early muskets used in revolutionary war, had 100 feet range, so first srike ? Maybe only vs melee/mounted units, but not archery, as they got longer range (mayby not archers).
That depends of a bolt. Some are crappy, some are good. You said u make a bow, but its hard to make and arrow. Think bolt is differant ? Thou its shorter (usually) doesnt mean that well crafted cannot fly as good as arrow + they fly faster. But if it goes to effedctive range, yes crossbow has it shorter, as shorter and often lighter bolt doesnt fly in air so smoothlya s arrow. Thats the point why crossbow wasnt a "rain" weapon.
And other aspect: You need to build arrows with feathers and arrowheads. I think a fine arrow (and u can only inflict damage with a fine arrow) is more expensive then a bolt. And in war you can make bolts simply out of everything - "Hey, sorry Generals, we need your chair to make bolts."
You can make arrow also out of everything... But are you talking about effect or quanity ? As you lost one.
I think a good solution might be to add a unique french knight with bonus against archery units ... Everyone will be happy with this.
Think Hian the Frog might be happy whith this, but alas his history knowlage, he wont agree. As he said, the armor used by French knight was low quality, but beautiful. Well crafted was very expansive... like king may afford it, and some lords. Alas my crude plate armor was crafted by 2 blacksmiths in 4 weeks, as i asked it took them 25 days, working 5 hours a day. In that time i had my order was only one, exept 2 long swords, witch take about 8 hours (depanding on quality) to craft by one blacksmith. Now think how long a well crafted armor must be crafted. Not to mention it must have some coloristic beautifull upgrades... As i cant belive a rich French would buy not "fashion" armor.
A first strike for musketmen and cross-bow-men reflect the relativ long reloading time (and don't give musketmen any bombard ability
)Ever shot a musket ? Fill it whith powder, put bullet in, some block to increase pressure, than use stick to "hammer" it down. So a first strike... well early muskets used in revolutionary war, had 100 feet range, so first srike ? Maybe only vs melee/mounted units, but not archery, as they got longer range (mayby not archers).
Anaztazioch
Hit in the head too much
"ite" "shashu" is direct translation of "archer". "yumi-tori" is also related word, maning both "bowman" and "owner of the bow". But i stick to name Archer Ite or shashu.
Not to split also put here some other names to change/add.
Samurai kngiht:
"jooba" (this oo is actually o whith "^" above it" means horse riding. "jobajutsu" military horseback riding technique.
"keima" is knight in chess.
"kishu" is horseman
"naito" and "kishi" both means knight."direct/exact translation". I belive naito is foot, kishi is mounted knight, but not sure.
As for "katana ashigaru":
"kenkaku" is direct translation of "swordsman"
Also "infantry" is "futsuuka" or "hohei".
"sukauto" and "sekkou" are "scout" (not explorer).
crossbow doesnt have translation
"chuubou" means galley.
"furige-to" means frigate
"hassha" means catapult.
Might use this translations as japanese uu names, what you say ?
I didnt post each name in differant threat, to make it all in one place.
Not to split also put here some other names to change/add.
Samurai kngiht:
"jooba" (this oo is actually o whith "^" above it" means horse riding. "jobajutsu" military horseback riding technique.
"keima" is knight in chess.
"kishu" is horseman
"naito" and "kishi" both means knight."direct/exact translation". I belive naito is foot, kishi is mounted knight, but not sure.
As for "katana ashigaru":
"kenkaku" is direct translation of "swordsman"
Also "infantry" is "futsuuka" or "hohei".
"sukauto" and "sekkou" are "scout" (not explorer).
crossbow doesnt have translation
"chuubou" means galley.
"furige-to" means frigate
"hassha" means catapult.
Might use this translations as japanese uu names, what you say ?
I didnt post each name in differant threat, to make it all in one place.
WarKirby
Arty person
Seems a bit too confusing. I don't think it's a good idea.
