Are british 'A' levels easier than 20 years ago?

[ellie]

With Pass levels going up for 20 years on the trot
is this a result of lowered standards
and easier courses to pass?.

Or are students getting brighter and teachers getting better.

Yep i know its sacrilege to ask the question,

But id be interested to hear opinons, the standard of
english and maths shown by teenagers coming to work at my company
seems to be worsening. So i find it hard to equate to improved
results.

Is it simply that ideas are marked now instead of good grammar
and arithmetic?.

 

[-0blivion-]

Tests are getting easier. Many companies and universities find that students who go there don't have basic maths skills like they did 20 years ago, even though they got an 'A' at A level. So many people pass and get 'A's that universities sometimes have to make their own tests to make choosing people to admit possible.

The department of education say we are getting smarter and teaching is better, but all evidence points to tests being 'dumbed down'

 

[ellie]

Its been a long time since i did my A levels (over 15 years), but a huge exam
was taken at the end.

As i understand it the topic is now split into modules
which can be individually retaken?.

Just curious, if coursework plays a big part..what mechanism prevents
internet plagiarism?. Anyone know?

 

[stormbind]

They are much easier. The government is either stupid, or lying!

Judging by old text books, the O Level (abandoned when?) was of a much higher standard than GCSE, and is comparible to current day A Levels.

For those that don't know.

O Level = Ordinary Level (secondary education)
A Level = Advanced Level (university prep.)
GCSE = General Certificate of Secondary Education (hugely simplified O Level)

 

[stormbind]

Its been a long time since i did my A levels (over 15 years), but a huge exam
was taken at the end.

As i understand it the topic is now split into modules
which can be individually retaken?.

Just curious, if coursework plays a big part..what mechanism prevents
internet plagiarism?. Anyone know?

Afaik.. GCSE put emphasis on coursework, not A Level. When I took my A Levels, some years ago, they were still big exams.

The government wants to replace them with NVQ rubbish, which relly on more coursework.

 

[stormbind]

Truth: I suppose everyone has heard about British drinking water containing Prozac!

Fiction: The five year plan to make A Levels harder will see that the prozac output is cut by a third.

 

[Dell19]

Clearly they were still at a comparable level last year but this year they were much easier...

 

[phoenix_night]

No they aren't.

 

[Dell19]

Judging by old text books, the O Level (abandoned when?) was of a much higher standard than GCSE, and is comparible to current day A Levels.

Does that actually mean that its easier or that the stuff that is being taught has changed so that topics that are no longer covered look much harder whilst there might be new topics that people who took O levels would find difficult...

 

[stormbind]

Does that actually mean that its easier or that the stuff that is being taught has changed so that topics that are no longer covered look much harder whilst there might be new topics that people who took O levels would find difficult...

The traditional accademic topics covered by the old O Level are more diverse and indepth than those in GCSE.

Therefore the gap between GCSE and A Level, is greater than the gap between O Level and A Level. A Levels thus drop in quality to compensate.

Therefore the gap between modern A Level and universities, is greater than the gap between old A Levels and universities. Universities thus drop in quality to compensate.

UCE (as an example) would never have been a university back in the days of the O Level. UCE (as an example) had every single architect student fail last year!

Therefore the gap between modern UK graduate-studies and post-grad, is greater than the gap between old UK graduate and post-grad studies. This is why the US universities (for example) are now complaining that they cannot find enough suitable foreign students to fill their post-grad vacancies! We call this migration of students "brain drain" in the UK, but it doesn't matter -- the US universities have noticed that the British can no longer be counted on to be well educated

 

[zulu9812]

Surely the thread started means English A-levels

 

[Dell19]

We also have more people going to universities which could be a reason for some dilution...

 

[phoenix_night]

Surely the thread started means English A-levels

I don't get it...

 

[stormbind]

@ Zulu,

Huh? I was referring to English, Welsh, NI A Levels. I think Scotland uses International Bacs.

@ Dell,

Yes, but why are more people staying in education? Is it because education is becoming easier?

 

[philippe]

easier?????????!!!!!!!! In this modern society it is always said to work and learn harder and now its easier education??????? I lost it here...

 

[Dell19]

Perhaps but not by as much as some people may suggest...

 

[Gainy]

Huh? I was referring to English, Welsh, NI A Levels. I think Scotland uses International Bacs.

Scotland does not do A-Levels, or GCSE's for that matter. We do Highers and Standard Grades, respectively.
They are not getting easier, the coursework is just different. Subjects like Physics and Chemistry are actually getting harder, as more is being discovered and thus added to the coursework.

As i understand it the topic is now split into modules
which can be individually retaken?.

In Scotland, for highers, generally there are 3 'Units' for each subject. At the end of each unit, you get a 'Unit Test'. You need to pass these to be able to sit the Higher Examination (the main thing). All be it, you are given resits for the Unit Tests if you fail. You do not get a resit for the Higher Exam though.
Btw, in Scotland we sit our Highers at a maxium of twice (if you are able). I did 5 last year, and am doing 3/4 this year.

Just curious, if coursework plays a big part..what mechanism prevents
internet plagiarism?.

There is minor plagiarism here, ie for my computing class I know several people who copied others' projects. Those projects accounted for 30% of the final grade. That's about all I know of though.

The people who say A-Levels/Highers are getting easier are talking rubbish. Fair enough, I didn't start studying (at home) till about a week before my exams, but in that week I worked quite a bit (and payed attention throughout the year at school). I got a B for Maths, B for Computing, C for Physics, and a C for English. It was not easy -- and they are relatively poor results. I dropped out of Chemistry btw, as it was just too much.

Edit: Halycon put it well. But here, C's are about 50% or 60% minimum. It fluctuates year to year.
And yes, i'm a lazy bastard, hence I got no A's

 

[Halcyon]

Though I've no samples to compare, it's not necessarily as simple as the exams getting easier. The way the exam system is set up these days makes it very easy to 'play the system', as it were. Firstly, the course structure is so compartmentalised that effective revision is made simple. Secondly, this compartmentalised approach encourages and rewards an extremely narrow approach to learning - memorising only what you need to know and no more, and memorising it well. Thirdly, much of many courses is made up of coursework, which any fool can get high marks in with a modicum of effort. Fourthly, you get three shots at each exam if you so desire.

There are many intelligent and capable students who for whatever reason do not attempt to play the system, and for them it remains challenging to get A or B grades. The exam system these days is set up such that grades reflect the work ethic of the student far, far more than any other personal quality. Work hard, revise hard, get good marks. Given how useless even a good examination system is at categorising people into intellectual strata, one begins to consider the whole thing a bit of a waste of effort. Exams, that is, not the rest. Basing someone's life opportunities on the strength of their work ethic whilst in the throes of late-stage puberty seems a bad idea to me. Perhaps just me, though.

Also, a lot of people do daft, easy subjects, like sociology, sports studies, on-license management and fence erection. Seriously, a college near here runs a course in putting up fences, and another in barkeeping. Statisticall speaking, each is as valued as chemistry or mathematics.

It should also not be forgotten that a 'pass' is a mark of about 30%, so it's little surprise that most people at least scrape an E. For this reason, less than a C at both GCSE and A level is generally considered poor show.


In short, British education has become less about learning and more about learning to pass exams. 'Exam technique' is taught as heavily as the subject itself in some cases, and not without reason - the vagaries of the marking system are such that lack of practice can be more of a killer than lack of knowledge or intelligence. There is a prevailing trend of reshaping the education system to be less about separating the wheat from the chaff and more about not hurting the chaff's sense of self-esteem. Being the elitist intellectuophilic bastard that I may or may not be, I find all this irritating at best.

 

[ellie]

Though I've no samples to compare, it's not necessarily as simple as the exams getting easier. The way the exam system is set up these days makes it very easy to 'play the system', as it were. Firstly, the course structure is so compartmentalised that effective revision is made simple. Secondly, this compartmentalised approach encourages and rewards an extremely narrow approach to learning - memorising only what you need to know and no more, and memorising it well. Thirdly, much of many courses is made up of coursework, which any fool can get high marks in with a modicum of effort. Fourthly, you get three shots at each exam if you so desire.

There are many intelligent and capable students who for whatever reason do not attempt to play the system, and for them it remains challenging to get A or B grades. The exam system these days is set up such that grades reflect the work ethic of the student far, far more than any other personal quality. Work hard, revise hard, get good marks. Given how useless even a good examination system is at categorising people into intellectual strata, one begins to consider the whole thing a bit of a waste of effort. Exams, that is, not the rest. Basing someone's life opportunities on the strength of their work ethic whilst in the throes of late-stage puberty seems a bad idea to me. Perhaps just me, though.

Also, a lot of people do daft, easy subjects, like sociology, sports studies, on-license management and fence erection. Seriously, a college near here runs a course in putting up fences, and another in barkeeping. Statisticall speaking, each is as valued as chemistry or mathematics.

It should also not be forgotten that a 'pass' is a mark of about 30%, so it's little surprise that most people at least scrape an E. For this reason, less than a C at both GCSE and A level is generally considered poor show.


In short, British education has become less about learning and more about learning to pass exams. 'Exam technique' is taught as heavily as the subject itself in some cases, and not without reason - the vagaries of the marking system are such that lack of practice can be more of a killer than lack of knowledge or intelligence. There is a prevailing trend of reshaping the education system to be less about separating the wheat from the chaff and more about not hurting the chaff's sense of self-esteem. Being the elitist intellectuophilic bastard that I may or may not be, I find all this irritating at best.

Thanks, that makes a lot of sense and i suspect is close to the truth.

I dont know if you read the times, but there have been several letters from examiners in the last few days on this topic. Todays article from an examiner was quite shocking as well.

 

[TrailblazingScot]

Also, a lot of people do daft, easy subjects, like sociology, sports studies, on-license management and fence erection. Seriously, a college near here runs a course in putting up fences, and another in barkeeping. Statisticall speaking, each is as valued as chemistry or mathematics.

That is an extremely good point.

In terms of people going on to study computer science (not ****e, but computer science), maths, physics and to some extend chemistry there is a major problem. More graduates, but not in the subjects that matter, more and 'better' A-levels, but not in subjects that are worth a damn.