laughingman12
Chieftain
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- Dec 31, 2007
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- 33
Are fast workers worth playing as Indians?
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are fast workers worth it?
- Thread starter laughingman12
- Start date
laughingman12
Chieftain
- Joined
- Dec 31, 2007
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Seriously what can Fast workers do?
Refar
Deity
- Joined
- Apr 10, 2005
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- 4,608
Both Indian leaders have strong traits, the UB is ok, but does not come into play early (Jail).
Fast Workers are a nice extra, they will save you a couple of turns on movement, thats all. It's not bad - you will save one worker turn on every hill, forest or jungle plot you enter, because you can start working right away.
But if you not have a idea how to use the Leaders traits and the UB, the fast workers alone will not help you that much - this is generally true with any civ.
Fast Workers are a nice extra, they will save you a couple of turns on movement, thats all. It's not bad - you will save one worker turn on every hill, forest or jungle plot you enter, because you can start working right away.
But if you not have a idea how to use the Leaders traits and the UB, the fast workers alone will not help you that much - this is generally true with any civ.
The Fast Worker's utility is actually a function of game speed. On faster speeds, improvements take fewer turns to build so saving a turn here and there on moving is relatively more valuable. Once you start looking at Epic and Marathon speeds, though, improvements take long enough to build that the speed doesn't make very much difference.
madscientist
RPC Supergenius
IMO the Indian fast worker is the best UU in the game. You get their ability from the first build until the end of the game with no upgrading. You get hree MPs which means they get to their target earlier and can start building immediately instead of waiting the next turns. Also captured workers can speed to your hme territory real fast.
I agree with Beam that it's more dependent on game speed (better at fast sepped, less valuable on Marathon) but I am a marathon speed player and still say it's the best UU.
I agree with Beam that it's more dependent on game speed (better at fast sepped, less valuable on Marathon) but I am a marathon speed player and still say it's the best UU.
Just keep in mind that each worker you build stalls city growth and production. Doesnt mean much when you can chuck them out in 1-3 turns later on of course, but in the early days where it takes 7-15 turns its big.
Also it depends what kind of monger you are. I generally dont go to war unless someone declares on me, so i like infrastructure benefits.
Also it depends what kind of monger you are. I generally dont go to war unless someone declares on me, so i like infrastructure benefits.
obsolete
Deity
Moving a Fast-Worker onto a forested hill, or jungled-hill immediately kills all movement points, and thus he can't do anything until the next round anyway.
PimpyMicPimp
Regrets His Username.
At first I thought that they were a little weak, and should maybe get a +10% improvment speed, but then I actually played them, and realised that the extra movement amounts to an improvment speed bonus itself! They are really quite good and never obsolete, combine that with the strong traits of Asoka and Ghandi and you have a nice little civ. India is awesome!
I'd trade 10-20 worker turns and many late-game hammers for a few extra early (and earlier) cities any day. *cough* Praetorians *cough*
Gliese 581
Your average civ junkie
They're not the best imo but they are definitely good.
madscientist
RPC Supergenius
I gotta say the most powerful UU's, IMHO
1) Indian Fast worker
2) Churchhill Redcoats
3) Prats
4) Panzers
5) Impi
Yeah, lot's of controversy there.
1) Indian Fast worker
2) Churchhill Redcoats
3) Prats
4) Panzers
5) Impi
Yeah, lot's of controversy there.
PimpyMicPimp
Regrets His Username.
That's quite an interesting ranking, Madscientist. I agree with all those units as being good, but I'm not sure if I agree with the rank. Interesting.
Bleys
Deity
I like the fast worker, but I think my style tends toward building and away from war. The thing is, I can still axe-rush with India if the situation dictates, even quicker because I am hitting "chop forest" the same turn I move into it.
An interesting list!!
IMO, the 5 best UU's are:
1) Praetorians (far and away the best one)
2) Cataphracts
3) Immortals
4) Vultures
5) War Chariots or Redcoats (if using Churchill, they go up ahead of war chariots)
The fast worker is a good UU but not a great one if you ask me .. just like serfdom is not a great civic. The military UU's listed above can have a greater impact on your game.
Gliese 581
Your average civ junkie
What about the Quechua, War Chariot and Vulture? I'd say all of them beats panzers, impi and redcoats..
Edit: Yeah and Immortal of course.. basically units that are good for early rushes = the best.
obsolete
Deity
Toku's Samuri are one of the top. Up to 10 first strikes, and they totaly dominate their unit they replace, the Maceman.
Way_Traveler
Warlord
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- Dec 30, 2007
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- 149
I think the Indians are an above average civ, possibly in the top ten. I think that the fast worker is an above average UU. I've played as the Indians for at least 50 games, usually on normal or marathon speed. Based on that experience, some points:
That's an illusory benefit. It's definitely nice in the early game, but workers have a few basic phases in civ4:
-- Capitol development, where you just work on the next tile your city will be exploiting. Fast workers are marginally helpful, since they can get their faster.
-- Expansion, where your need for improved tiles may exceed your supply of workers. This is where FW's shine.
-- Conquering. After you conquer enemy territory, you may need to change its tiles to suit your strategy. The FW is of marginal benefit here; your conversion of enemy land will happen faster, but only a few turns faster. And when you kill an enemy civ, you're likely to get all his workers, and will have more than enough manpower to reshape the land to your will. [The only exception is when workers are outside the enemy's last city when you destroy it; unless you require complete kills, they just vanish.]. So... of help here, but not that much.
-- Building a railroad network is a huge project, and greatly reduces the amount of garrisoned troops you need to defend the homefront. But the UW isn't really useful here; the limiting factor is the time it takes to add rail to a tile, not the amount it takes to move. After all, you can start building your rail network at any point. And it's not like discovering the railroad comes as a surprise; you have plenty of time to reposition your workers appropriately. So, marginal benefit.
-- Once your rail network is built, you only have post-conquering to really worry about. You'll occasionally need to change a tile or two, but even regular workers can get about quickly on your trains. So, the FW will only be marginally better once again.
-- Therefore, past the age of rail, this UU isn't that great. So, saying you get the benefits of it the entire game is kind of false.
So... it's a good unit, especially in the early to mid game. But superior to prats? I tend not to think so.
Let's also consider the Indian UB. The mausoleum's +2 happiness is good; the cities where its benefits come in most handy is where you'd build a jail anyway. On the other hand, you can't build it any earlier (like you can with the Sumerian Zig), nor do you get any discount on hammers (IIRC; I'm on the road and don't have access to the civopedia). As I said in the start, the Indians are above average but not a truly elite civ.
YMMV.
That's an illusory benefit. It's definitely nice in the early game, but workers have a few basic phases in civ4:
-- Capitol development, where you just work on the next tile your city will be exploiting. Fast workers are marginally helpful, since they can get their faster.
-- Expansion, where your need for improved tiles may exceed your supply of workers. This is where FW's shine.
-- Conquering. After you conquer enemy territory, you may need to change its tiles to suit your strategy. The FW is of marginal benefit here; your conversion of enemy land will happen faster, but only a few turns faster. And when you kill an enemy civ, you're likely to get all his workers, and will have more than enough manpower to reshape the land to your will. [The only exception is when workers are outside the enemy's last city when you destroy it; unless you require complete kills, they just vanish.]. So... of help here, but not that much.
-- Building a railroad network is a huge project, and greatly reduces the amount of garrisoned troops you need to defend the homefront. But the UW isn't really useful here; the limiting factor is the time it takes to add rail to a tile, not the amount it takes to move. After all, you can start building your rail network at any point. And it's not like discovering the railroad comes as a surprise; you have plenty of time to reposition your workers appropriately. So, marginal benefit.
-- Once your rail network is built, you only have post-conquering to really worry about. You'll occasionally need to change a tile or two, but even regular workers can get about quickly on your trains. So, the FW will only be marginally better once again.
-- Therefore, past the age of rail, this UU isn't that great. So, saying you get the benefits of it the entire game is kind of false.
So... it's a good unit, especially in the early to mid game. But superior to prats? I tend not to think so.
Let's also consider the Indian UB. The mausoleum's +2 happiness is good; the cities where its benefits come in most handy is where you'd build a jail anyway. On the other hand, you can't build it any earlier (like you can with the Sumerian Zig), nor do you get any discount on hammers (IIRC; I'm on the road and don't have access to the civopedia). As I said in the start, the Indians are above average but not a truly elite civ.
YMMV.
Gliese 581
Your average civ junkie
True, another great early rush unit. Yeah I consider any unit before gunpowder to be early.. I haven't tried out cataphracts yet so I don't know how good 12s is compared to 10s, immunity to first strikes. Also requires two resources and come rather late as beelining that path is usually suboptimal imo.
