Are Hyborem/Basium Strong enough

[stp]

Someone proposed turning the whole summoning empire into the Mercurians or Infernals on some earlier thread. I've never played MP, but I imagine that you will only rarely be interested in gaining an AI ally.

 

[Ksi]

Monkey finger is right, economy needs to be more power. Expansive has to go. Aggressive on Hyborem might be a bad idea since losing Hyborem is goodbye summoning. Perhaps demon should also grant +1 unholy but definately do something about the economy.

Demontic citizens is an issue too, it punishes you for taking the AV holy city. Manes should be able to build it.

 

[kenken244]

id like it if it was buildable if the city had a sacrificial altar. that way it is easier to build them in cities that were AV and still buildable in other cities, but requires an investment

 

[xienwolf]

Aggressive on Hyborem is good as long as it is tied to his Immortal Promotion. Then he is very aggressive until he actually dies once.

 

[Calbrenar]

Im actually very interested in MP feedback. In my mind its more valuable than single player because it indicates the true relative strength of the feature (without viewing it through the kalidescope of the AI).

Did you use Hyborems world spell in Mp? Did it cause OOS's?

I could certainly increase Hyborems starting units and give the demon promotion +1 unholy strength, so all Hyborems units get a little bigger.

Well #1 I've never switched to Hyborem in MP since like .2x since he sucks and its virtually suicide. I did it once in a major OOSing game to see if it would fix it but it didn't it kept OOSing.

I haven't tried it since then because I thought I read in the patch notes that you disabled Whisper because it caused OOS'.

Monkey I disagree. Some ultra powerful empire is summoning the lord of Hell to come to the world and end it. So yo'ure telling me that he's just going to be some small crappy force that any established force could crush? Seems like a pointless waste of time.

If that's the case I'd rather Hyborem work like Basiuma and take a city (even if he doesn't get the permanent team aspect as that wouldn't make sense for hell)

 

[MagisterCultuum]

I still think that it would be more fun if the summoner of Hyborem or Basium got a vassalage agreement with the new civ rather than nothing/a permanent alliance. The human should probably be the master whether (s)he switches or not, but that does leave the question as to what to do when an AI reaches Infernal Pact first.


The game should definitely be made to increase the size of the starting armies based on the strength of other civs and/or the prevalence of the appropriate religions.


I think that Hyborem and Basium need to start with some late game techs, or possibly techs that no one else can even research, in addition to their summoner's techs. Thematically, archangels should have a deeper knowledge of the world than mere mortals. Mechanically, they need a technological advantage early, since research in their tiny new empires really fall behind their rivals. Also, if you put a large weight on this tech, it can artificially inflate their scores and so make them play more aggressively.