[GS] Are Magnus' chops still worth it?

[Smity2k1]

I think the chop should be a tier 2 promotion for Magnus. Still very easily obtainable and still very useful, but you have to at least commit a bit.

 

[Tabarnak]

After 2-3 more mp games i tend to pick 3 promos into Reyna and totally ignore Magnus and Pingala. Done after more or less 30 turns(online speed), it gives a lot of gold early on. If feeling expansionnist, the idea is to use 50% chivalry units and use Reyna's gold to upgrade warrior into swords. I managed to get over 500 army strength in less than 40 turns.

For those who don't know, 500 army strength at that turn makes you win against any opponents that are close to you(with a great general of course). Magnus or not.

In other words, i think it's pretty situationnal to use Magnus first, or Pingala or Reyna. Mp games tend to be played on small maps, sometimes with only few forests and place to settle like 7-8 cities(we likely have an average of 4-5 potential cities).

The comparison between mp and sp is not possible. The power of Magnus is less strong in mp. Humans act differently. Pillaging is an option, but not a necessity. Online speed in fault. You have to be fast. You have to conquer fast. You don't have time to wander around.

Picking 3 promos into Reyna early is strong enough to write a strategy article only because of this aspect. It clearly changes the game. If not nerfed soon.

I compared my stats over some of the best players starting with Magnus and i'm even less convinced than before that Magnus is the way to go on and on. I even played a game with Solorank and he wasnt even close to me in term of production. Production is the joker card in mp games. After 70 turns, most players tend to ignore this aspect.

Reyna is the key to reach that production. That might sounds a bit weird to hear...

The optimized production strategy is back. Martin Alvito will surely remember...

 

[Victoria]

i think it's pretty situationnal to use Magnus first, or Pingala or Reyna.

Not mentioning Amani in this list to me is not showing full appreciation. A golden classic monumentality is a huge advantage and Amani can get you 6-9 points toward that, let alone suzerain early for levy which is rather OP.

Picking 3 promos into Reyna early is strong enough to write a strategy article o

I play Victoria 90% of my games, Reyna’s Harbormaster is very important. I still mostly get Magnus first. It is so strong and as I understand the non friendly MP games, everything is chopped early to get the military advantage. It quite possibly is different between friends.

If I do not go Magnus, I go Amani... most often.

 

[Boyan_Sun]

I agree it's very different, and gold is the key yield in mp game (you cannot trade gold), which makes Reyna very popular.
But if someone is mad and wants to end up with you, or in a team game, or slower than online speed, it is very hard to defend his Magnus horsemen rush.

 

[cknwo]

Not mentioning Amani in this list to me is not showing full appreciation. A golden classic monumentality is a huge advantage and Amani can get you 6-9 points toward that, let alone suzerain early for levy which is rather OP.
I play Victoria 90% of my games, Reyna’s Harbormaster is very important. I still mostly get Magnus first. It is so strong and as I understand the non friendly MP games, everything is chopped early to get the military advantage. It quite possibly is different between friends.

If I do not go Magnus, I go Amani... most often.

@Victoria How does Amani net you those points? Do you hop her around to get suz's?

After 2-3 more mp games i tend to pick 3 promos into Reyna and totally ignore Magnus and Pingala. Done after more or less 30 turns(online speed), it gives a lot of gold early on. If feeling expansionnist, the idea is to use 50% chivalry units and use Reyna's gold to upgrade warrior into swords. I managed to get over 500 army strength in less than 40 turns.

For those who don't know, 500 army strength at that turn makes you win against any opponents that are close to you(with a great general of course). Magnus or not.

In other words, i think it's pretty situationnal to use Magnus first, or Pingala or Reyna. Mp games tend to be played on small maps, sometimes with only few forests and place to settle like 7-8 cities(we likely have an average of 4-5 potential cities).

The comparison between mp and sp is not possible. The power of Magnus is less strong in mp. Humans act differently. Pillaging is an option, but not a necessity. Online speed in fault. You have to be fast. You have to conquer fast. You don't have time to wander around.

Picking 3 promos into Reyna early is strong enough to write a strategy article only because of this aspect. It clearly changes the game. If not nerfed soon.

I compared my stats over some of the best players starting with Magnus and i'm even less convinced than before that Magnus is the way to go on and on. I even played a game with Solorank and he wasnt even close to me in term of production. Production is the joker card in mp games. After 70 turns, most players tend to ignore this aspect.

Reyna is the key to reach that production. That might sounds a bit weird to hear...

The optimized production strategy is back. Martin Alvito will surely remember...

@Tabarnak How do you go about upgrading your units w/ the resource requirements?

 

[Victoria]

@Victoria How does Amani net you those points? Do you hop her around to get suz's?

Yup, 6 points is not hard, 9 means you needed to have pushed your civic a bit or gone for her first.
A golden age is not to be underrated but if you were going to get one any way, her only value is a brief flash of suze at each. Luckily you do not have to make the choice at the start. It is nice when you have a UI or similar +4 you can also call on.
Remember, you have 3 promos quite close so amani +2pin or Amani, Magnus, Liang. Lots of choice and get 2 campus out and another is not far away. Lose a few turns of Pin or Reyna to get a golden age? I think so. Do Incans need provisions? Do Romans need more purple? ... civs also count as considerations... civ VI is not about 1 rule for all.

On the coast and have 1 envoy at Nan Madol... you would be mad not to go for Amani... or maybe some don’t.. 1 envoy at Yerevan, Kabul, Valetta, Auckland... all depends on where your head is.

 

[Tabarnak]

@Tabarnak How do you go about upgrading your units w/ the resource requirements?

The idea is to go straight for Bronze Working(after AH usually) to reveal iron mines. Improve them asap to gather iron. Then go for Horseback Riding. Meanwhile, build warriors and archers with 50% card for melee/ranged units. Then when HR is discovered switch for 50% card for horses. Finally, go for Iron Working.

You can upgrade 2 swords in the beginning. Keep other warriors at bay, ready to go for your opponent. Stuck your warriors behind and upgrade them over time when you gonna have more iron(Reyna comes really handy here).

So you don't have to build swords. Just upgrade your remaining warriors that are already in front so you don't have to bring built swords through your whole empire, saving time overall.

If my treasury is high(also gpt), i use both 50% cards for units and alternate between warriors and horses depending on what i have left in stock.

 

[cknwo]

The idea is to go straight for Bronze Working(after AH usually) to reveal iron mines. Improve them asap to gather iron. Then go for Horseback Riding. Meanwhile, build warriors and archers with 50% card for melee/ranged units. Then when HR is discovered switch for 50% card for horses. Finally, go for Iron Working.

You can upgrade 2 swords in the beginning. Keep other warriors at bay, ready to go for your opponent. Stuck your warriors behind and upgrade them over time when you gonna have more iron(Reyna comes really handy here).

So you don't have to build swords. Just upgrade your remaining warriors that are already in front so you don't have to bring built swords through your whole empire, saving time overall.

If my treasury is high(also gpt), i use both 50% cards for units and alternate between warriors and horses depending on what i have left in stock.

@Tabarnak how does Reyna's abilities become beneficial early on? Her initial ability seems incredibly lacking.

 

[Fluphen Azine]

You guys are debating Single Player strategies against Multi-Player strategies.
I have played against @Tabarnak plenty with a different user name than this one on this site.
I have also followed his youtube channel for years.
I played plenty of Civ V with him and his group.
I miss his old hockey avatar.

He is talking about what works in Multi-Player
@Victoria is talking about what works in Single Player more so.
Victoria plays mostly Single Player and Tabarnak plays mostly Multi-Player.

Tabarnak is highly skilled at Multi-Player but even more so with the diplomacy of the online game.
It does not matter how great you are at the game you have to be good with diplomacy or dare I say collusion online.
(ElStretcho I am looking at you.)
You also need good land and starts.
A good draw for Civ doesn't mean near as much as your starting land.
Even the best players struggle with an ugly start.
I played and watched plenty of Red Phoenix and Phillyboy games for Civ VI a few years back.
They bulldozed many a matches.
Plenty of other great players as well like Atomation, Yoshi, Esdeath, Gunslinger and many others.
I would work my way up into the top ten and fall back many times.
Sometimes for lack of play but mostly for disdain of the private message diplomacy.

CanuckSoldier has been getting the groups together for a very long time.
All the way back to Civ III if I remember correctly.
He is a dedicated leader but doesn't play hardcore as the others.
Many of those players play 10 hours a day or more.

It has been quite some time since I have messed around online.
Over a year.
I wouldn't doubt they had another or a few disbanding of players and leagues.
A few years back they had an ugly one with Song.

 

[Victoria]

You guys are debating Single Player strategies against Multi-Player strategies.

It is important to mention all considerations, And even if I turn out to be wrong I would rather be be proven wrong and learn than not to discuss. That’s what the forum is for.
We have both SP and MP players here, I remember when I first came here suggesting that maybe people specify SP or MP in threads but it was never taken up, and to be fair the vast majority here talk SP. But it is great to hear MP strat as it is so different.

gold in MP is such a different beast.

 

[Fluphen Azine]

It is important to mention all considerations, And even if I turn out to be wrong I would rather be be proven wrong and learn than not to discuss. That’s what the forum is for.
We have both SP and MP players here, I remember when I first came here suggesting that maybe people specify SP or MP in threads but it was never taken up, and to be fair the vast majority here talk SP. But it is great to hear MP strat as it is so different.

gold in MP is such a different beast.

My comments were only statements.
I am pretty sure Tabarnak stated earlier that Reyna was a multiplayer strategy that he uses.
You are certainly correct that strategy and tips has always been for single player strategy.
I see no harm in the debate, I was only pointing out as we all already know MP is completely different than SP.
I certainly do not think he was suggesting Reyna First in SP nor do I think you were saying Amani First in MP.
Just trying to clarify the debate of use of Governors.
SP on Standard Speed is completely different than MP on Quick Speed.
I think we all understand that though.
I just wanted to make sure everyone asking questions understood what Tabarnak was explaining was for MP 6 Player FFA Quick Speed.
The posts or questions after his post seemed to be headed towards SP and I am pretty sure he wasn't giving an SP strategy.

We can all read this post again if we choose...

After 2-3 more mp games i tend to pick 3 promos into Reyna and totally ignore Magnus and Pingala. Done after more or less 30 turns(online speed), it gives a lot of gold early on. If feeling expansionnist, the idea is to use 50% chivalry units and use Reyna's gold to upgrade warrior into swords. I managed to get over 500 army strength in less than 40 turns.

For those who don't know, 500 army strength at that turn makes you win against any opponents that are close to you(with a great general of course). Magnus or not.

In other words, i think it's pretty situationnal to use Magnus first, or Pingala or Reyna. Mp games tend to be played on small maps, sometimes with only few forests and place to settle like 7-8 cities(we likely have an average of 4-5 potential cities).

The comparison between mp and sp is not possible. The power of Magnus is less strong in mp. Humans act differently. Pillaging is an option, but not a necessity. Online speed in fault. You have to be fast. You have to conquer fast. You don't have time to wander around.

Picking 3 promos into Reyna early is strong enough to write a strategy article only because of this aspect. It clearly changes the game. If not nerfed soon.

I compared my stats over some of the best players starting with Magnus and i'm even less convinced than before that Magnus is the way to go on and on. I even played a game with Solorank and he wasnt even close to me in term of production. Production is the joker card in mp games. After 70 turns, most players tend to ignore this aspect.

Reyna is the key to reach that production. That might sounds a bit weird to hear...

The optimized production strategy is back. Martin Alvito will surely remember...

 

[Victoria]

I think we all understand that though.

Of course we do, I see no issue here and it is great having another expert MP view.
With SP it is about getting ahead for the long haul while MP is surviving the short.

 

[cknwo]

Yes, i appreciate both strategy for sp and mp.

With 3 promotion Reyna, that's probably not happening until after the invasion has begun. So basically you are using her for medieval upgrades it seems?

 

[Fluphen Azine]

Yes, i appreciate both strategy for sp and mp.

For those unfamiliar with MP:

If you really want to work on MP Strategy, one of your best friends is Psychological Warfare.
You will want to use this for the long haul over years and years of playing.
This is mainly because the core of MP players tend to constantly play day after day and year after year.
They have made real world or real life alliances through the years.
They have also made real life rivals or enemies.
The game can get very personal and only takes a backstab or two to make an enemy for life.
Collusion is forbidden but near impossible to prove if done correctly or in a subtle manner.
"Working Together" is not considered collusion.

All of this being said, you really need to play with a No Quit Group.
Public games can take on average 20 games to get 1 great game.
For the most part, it is a good game to get past turn 30 when going Public.
If you play NQ MP, you have to commit 3 to 6 hours solid for one game.
Leaving Games is a No No but you can get subbed.
Players will claim emergencies and get subbed at times.
Nature of the beast that you have to put up with.

To those unfamiliar with MP please be aware...
MP can become highly addictive and may cause you to lose more than your time.
Such loses may include your family, job and many other pleasures in life.
Make sure you are well funded and can keep a roof over your head with strong internet connection.
Delivery is a must as you will be eating breakfast, lunch and dinner in front of your PC.

 

[Tabarnak]

I played and watched plenty of Red Phoenix and Phillyboy games for Civ VI a few years back.
They bulldozed many a matches.

I miss Philly's mustache

gold in MP is such a different beast.

Indeed.

With 3 promotion Reyna, that's probably not happening until after the invasion has begun. So basically you are using her for medieval upgrades it seems?

She begins to help when i hit IW. For swords. And to gather gold for med. units. In peaceful times i rush buy workers when i hit Feudalism for new cities.

To those unfamiliar with MP please be aware...
MP can become highly addictive and may cause you to lose more than your time.
Such loses may include your family, job and many other pleasures in life.
Make sure you are well funded and can keep a roof over your head with strong internet connection.
Delivery is a must as you will be eating breakfast, lunch and dinner in front of your PC.

I'm also kinda old compared to these CPL youngsters...i lost some reflex over time . But yeah it's highly demanding to play competitive games. I'm not into these games anymore. I do play with some good groups of guys(and girls! Hello Labella! Strongest mp civ girl player on earth!) from time to time.

 

[greenblade]

Man, all pro tactics sound terrible. I want an awesome empire with good land, not a victory with pillaged improvements and consumed resources

The game designers made a big mistake in balancing production since vanilla version. The building costs increase so dramatically while the production output increases so little. And the "era progress cost increase" formula is so counter-intuitive that it doesn't make sense to have more pops to support more than a couple of districts.

So people kept cities small and chop trees and stones to build core districts and buildings.

Then R&F brought Magnus and changed the a bunch of policies to requires 10 pops city -- while make no effort in increasing production of high-pop cities.

So deers, cows, sheeps, rice, wheats and everything else are sacrificed.

Don't blame the players, blame the designers.

I hope they can realize what a colossal mistake they've made and fix it (not just put more lipsticks on it) in the next major patch. But there is no sign so far.