are siege units overpowered?

[Krill]

It was playing smartly - it identified it's target as Siam, and took it out. better that then wandering units into Gregs' uber Treb to get wasted.

And Trebs need 1 iron, according to Well of Souls. But that Longbowman? And Trebs? England will be a b!tch to attack in that era.

 

[Ahriman]

Siege units, even in history, were always meant to be very powerful.

Siege units, in history, were almost entirely for knocking down walls rather than killing large numbers of soldiers in the field (until 18th century onwards).

Its truly bizarre seeing a trebuchet tearing huge chunks out of infantry units.

But I can live with it.

 

[Gnollen]

Another limiting factor to siege, that really wasn't demonstrated in the video, is its lack of mobility. I'm guessing that siege will, rightfully, lag behind your main force when on the move.

 

[Ahriman]

I'm guessing that siege will, rightfully, lag behind your main force when on the move.

Siege units have the same movement as infantry (2).
However, they have to spend a movement to set up, so they can't move and shoot in the same turn.

 

[hideousmonkey]

It was playing smartly - it identified it's target as Siam, and took it out. better that then wandering units into Gregs' uber Treb to get wasted.

That's a fair point, I guess Greg wasn't its biggest threat!

 

[12agnar0k]

Dont forget, greg was playing an AI, and they just rush on ahead with no tactics in mind, so his trebuchet was able to clear them up, when greg did the same back to france to show us some more gameplay he got decimated.

 

[Kaar]

Siege units have the same movement as infantry (2).
However, they have to spend a movement to set up, so they can't move and shoot in the same turn.

Very good point. That, with the addition of the resource requirement for a lot of siege engines, further emphasizes that your primary ranged units in the field will be your archers/crossbowmen until the renaissance era.

Still, I can't wait to get my hands on ranks of Legion backed by a few Ballista. Victa Roma!

 

[Abremms]

Dont forget, greg was playing an AI, and they just rush on ahead with no tactics in mind, so his trebuchet was able to clear them up, when greg did the same back to France to show us some more game play he got decimated.

from what I've seen and read this is not actually the case in civ 5. the tactical AI is supposed to be more intelligent than that this time around. Greg said that it had already tried flanking attacks to the south, and it looks like Nappy was also fighting on multiple fronts. I really didn't see a whole lot of mindless throwing units at the choke point. there was some, but for the most part the battle was pretty evenly matched untill the treb got the 2x attack promotion. And even then, the AI was really just penning Greg in while he tech'd up and rolled out artillery at which point Greg was boned.

 

[For Nall]

The AI didnt take a sea route to flank Greg because according to Greg the AI had already tried that and he got slaughtered by archers damaging the troops and the Samurai finishing them off. The AI was also fighting multiple fronts meaning he wouldnt focus on Greg first (Since Greg was last in points im assuming that he was the least advanced). Once the AI killed Siam he massacred Greg.

 

[Ahriman]

I highly doubt that the AI actually "learned". Far more likely was that it tried the movement when there weren't really units nearby, then he moved some up to counter, and then he didn't try it again because there were units defending on the other side, and because there was already a front of units to attack (Greg's units in Arabia, and then Monaco) that didn't need naval transport to access.

I'm at least thankful that the AI tried crossing the red sea, and didn't have some block making it unable to use units amphibiously unless they were on a separate island with no land connection.

 

[MisterBarca]

I know, how out of character for Mr. Bonaparte. I would have hoped that the AI would be a bit more aggressive, especially since Greg was on Immortal.

He was fighting wars elsewhere, too.

 

[Gre_Magus]

Still, I can't wait to get my hands on ranks of Legion backed by a few Ballista. Victa Roma!

Roma Victrix! (scio grammatica alium non corrigenda in his foris, sed cum lingua latina male scribitur me continere non possum).

 

[Tennyson]

Charging into an area that artillery has zero'd in is a recipe for suicide. Tough to judge the overall balance of siege units based on one ideal scenario.

 

[Bibor]

In the video preview that ballista's XP is as powerful as having a CIV4 level 10 samurai general with Combat V and Drill IV and whatnot (i.e. very rare). Notice Greg has crossbowmen protecting the coast in case Nappy tries a naval invasion across the red sea. And also, as someone said, looks like Napoleon has been fighting on several fronts simultaneosuly.

 

[nokmirt]

I was very suprised that the trebuchet did so much damage, and even gave that French cannon a pounding. I am not sure what to think. I also want to see how naval warfare plays out.

 

[Prof_longhair]

Any word on whether longbowmen and other ranged units have to "set up" like siege engines? If not those range 3 longbowmen look hawt.

 

[Wolle68]

I think I remember reading somewhere that Nappy's personality is to favor land wars. That may explain why he didn't try flanking by sea.

 

[ddd123]

Keep in mind that Greg's trebuchet had a lot of promotions.

which sounds normal

since a ranged unit can easily hit more ppl and survive the kill its very likely to have aranged unit very promoted

while a melee maybe is strong enough to kill but can be killed as well

 

[stealth_nsk]

since a ranged unit can easily hit more ppl and survive the kill its very likely to have aranged unit very promoted

But it receives 2 times less experience from attack than melee unit. Just for this reason.

 

[bernlin2000]

It's pure speculation (but what isn't, at this moment?), but highly unlikely that they are overpowered. Their melee attack is likely awful, so that they'll lose even to units much less promoted. If you can keep them well defended, though, they'll be overpowered in the sense that they have a wonderful area of control that will nicely cut apart waves of units. I look forward to flinging boulders from my trebuchets

I think if you didn't think they were over-powered, you'd be complaining in this post that you thought they were under-powered.

Quoted for Truth

I know, how out of character for Mr. Bonaparte. I would have hoped that the AI would be a bit more aggressive, especially since Greg was on Immortal.

By the end of the broadcast he had almost wiped Greg's army off the face of the world, so Napoleon simply took his sweet time: he had the advantage so he wasn't in a huge rush

Siege units, in history, were almost entirely for knocking down walls rather than killing large numbers of soldiers in the field (until 18th century onwards).

Its truly bizarre seeing a trebuchet tearing huge chunks out of infantry units.

But I can live with it.

It's not too realistic for a trebuchet to be firing rocks into an open field with units, but it's a hell of a lot of fun. Luckily, Civilization is not a simulation, so I can more than live it with: I'm gonna love it .