Are there any civs in need of revamping?

[Victoria]

The OP Civs need to be nerfed and the PO ones need to be buffed.
Additionally all the wonderful hard work in this thread needs to be assessed because most countries have some naff units/abilities.

A jolly good shake up and try again, it will not be right but should be better. And gives us all some variety to play with and thing to pine over the loss of .

 

[MooFreaky]

No, much of Roman conquest was about individuals gaining power and glory (pretty much every war they fought was about gaining power and glory.. both for Rome and the Generals leading the armies).

And besides they kept all the territory they won. America hasn't. Neither Fiji or Germany are American States for example.

It's a saying used to show a point. The Romans constantly went to great extremes to find justifications for war, because they felt honour bound to find legalistic reasons to justify their actions. They were always attacked, provoked, or dishonoured in some way that meant that going to war and taking their enemy's territory was legal, justified and the right thing to do.

Carthage interfered in Roman affairs. Then they broke a treaty, even if Rome was also ignoring it. The Macedonians aided the Cartheginans. The Greeks invited the Romans in and then aided their enemies the Macedonians. The Gauls crossed Roman territory without permission, then resisted Roman actions or plotted to do so. etc etc. Often they would delay wars until proper justification could be found (or provoked). That way they could always be the ones on defence.

Even though there are differences, the concept is still relevant to many countries today. Even if they don't hold the territory, they usually gain something. Whether it is allies, influence, money or access to resources (or a combination).

 

[UWHabs]

How would that work with how Civ 6's continent system works? You can literally find a second continent on the same landmass on turn 0 if you start on a tectonic border. Imagine starting the game with 2 settlers, that'd be crazy

Yeah, I love how the continents are not simply landmasses, but sometimes the borders between continents can be a little weird. My last game, my "home" continent was a stretch of land about 5 tiles wide around my capital stretching across the landmass, meaning that without even fighting anyone else, I settled my first 4 cities on 3 different "continents". It feels really weird to have my warrior explore, and after about 2 turns, he walks across a river and suddenly he's on a new continent. Feels like those continental distinctions shouldn't come into play until you've discovered more land and have a better grasp at the landmass.

 

[MooFreaky]

Yeah, I love how the continents are not simply landmasses, but sometimes the borders between continents can be a little weird. My last game, my "home" continent was a stretch of land about 5 tiles wide around my capital stretching across the landmass, meaning that without even fighting anyone else, I settled my first 4 cities on 3 different "continents". It feels really weird to have my warrior explore, and after about 2 turns, he walks across a river and suddenly he's on a new continent. Feels like those continental distinctions shouldn't come into play until you've discovered more land and have a better grasp at the landmass.

It's a bit weird sure, but so is our world if you shrunk it down to fit Civ6 concepts. Asia, Africa and Europe all meet right near one another.

 

[Ikael]

How would that work with how Civ 6's continent system works? You can literally find a second continent on the same landmass on turn 0 if you start on a tectonic border. Imagine starting the game with 2 settlers, that'd be crazy

I never had one of these type or map rolls, but now that you mention it... welp, you're right. This could only work if the continent system would be more logical.

Perhaps a "gain one free settler per natural wonder that you reach with your units for the first time" could be a more balanced mechanic.

 

[Onii-chan]

I never had one of these type or map rolls, but now that you mention it... welp, you're right. This could only work if the continent system would be more logical.

Perhaps a "gain one free settler per natural wonder that you reach with your units for the first time" could be a more balanced mechanic.

It's not illogical, it's just based on tectonic plates rather than landmasses separated by water

In any case that second version sounds more like what Spain had in Civ V if they were the first to find a natural wonder (I.E: free 500 gold => insta-buy settler), which was the most RNG ability in the game

 

[Lights]

If it were for me Spanish UA would be: +4 gold or +1 prod/food from trade routes (this is the UA they have now without the continents restriction) and for every city they settle outside their home continent they would get a free trader and a free trade route.

 

[Victoria]

How would that work with how Civ 6's continent system works? You can literally find a second continent on the same landmass on turn 0 if you start on a tectonic border. Imagine starting the game with 2 settlers, that'd be crazy

England currently gets a free unit in every city settled in a different continent and +2 gold in royal navy dockyards if on another continent and redcoats get combat bonus for other continents. Naturally I treat this as something a bit wrong and if I could avoid it I would .. perhaps.. maybe... one day

 

[CaiusDrewart]

India

Satyagraha: You can build missionaries and buildings of any faith as long as it is present in your cities without needing to have that city converted to any given faith: just having one follower present will be enough prequisite to build missionaries. All your religious districts have +1 additional slot for buildings (so you may have a mosque and a pagoda on the same city)

With that modification India's religion game will be far more active, allowing the Indian player to tailor the beliefs of its people without waiting for foreign missionaries, all while providing an excellent defense against agressive religious persecution, since religions will be far more resilient inside India's frontiers.

I love this idea. Combine this with a general boost to the power of religious beliefs (which are terribly weak right now), and India becomes a fun Civ to play.

 

[GT_OKEZ]

- Please allow for all unique units to be upgraded to from a previous unit. This means replacing a vanilla unit. Some Civs being able to pre-build while others can't immediately creates some serious balance issues not to mention the ones that cannot be upgraded to usually land on some annoying part of the tech tree which ends up costing the player more science & production than another player that gets the benefit of a smoother tech tree friendly UU.

- Seriously rework unique tile improvements. All of them pretty much suck. I can't think of one that's even slightly decent ( If I had to rank them I'd say the Kurgan is the best but that's pretty sad since Scythia is so strong already). It's broken that certain Civs get unique districts with all those benefits while other civs get a horsehockey tile improvement for their UB.

- Please change the bonuses for Civs that rely on continents (Teddy, Victoria, Spain, France, etc.) This is not very viable in competitive play (which is exclusively Pangea) and is too random (you might spawn next to another continent or not). Yes on a continents map Civs like Victoria can really benefit from this but that's highly situational still. It's broken that some Civs get strong bonuses in pretty much any scenario while others have to have the stars align just right just to be somewhat competitive.

- Increase base movement of melee combat units to 3 instead of 2. The new terrain/movement rules really make melee poor units compared to cav in most cases. Also help the Spearman out. These are not effective anti-cav units even though that's their class.

- Do something about water tiles. Civs that start with a coastal bias are already set behind and typically the Civs that excel at coastal play are not even that good anyways.

Just read the new patch, seems like step in the right direction.

 

[GT_OKEZ]

Some ideas:

India, Stepwell - Make it now that the Stepwell is no longer a tile improvement but a unique building replacement for the Granary.

• +3 Food
• +3 Housing
• +2 Faith

Spain, Mission - Make it a replacement building now for the Shrine.
+2 Faith
+2 Science
+1 Citizen slot
+2 Great Prophet point per turn.


France - Chateau - Replacement for Amphitheater
+3 Culture
+1 Citizen slot
+2 Great Writer point per turn.
+3 Great Work of Writing slot.

Sumeria - Ziggaraut - Now a replacement for the Library

+3 Science
+2 Culture
+1 Citizen slot
+1 Great Scientist point per turn.

Kurgan - A replacement for the pasture improvement

+1 Production
+1 Gold
+2 Faith
+0.5 Housing
+1 Food (requires Exploration)
+1 Production Produiction (requires Robotics)

 

[UnknownHuman]

If it were for me Spanish UA would be: +4 gold or +1 prod/food from trade routes (this is the UA they have now without the continents restriction) and for every city they settle outside their home continent they would get a free trader and a free trade route.

It’s a good idea, but this ability would be too similar to Cleopatra’s.

 

[GT_OKEZ]

My version of Spain:

Leader bonus - El Escorial
+4 Combat bonus vs. units of factions not following Philip's religion (including factions with no religion); Inquisitors have 1 extra remove heresy charge.

Civ ability - Treasure Fleets
May form fleets and armadas sooner (Mercantilism). International trade routes receive bonus Gold and internal trade routes receive bonus Food, Production, and Faith . (No longer has continent restriction)

Conquistador (UU)
Movement
3

+10 Combat Strength when there is a Missionary, Inquisitor, or Apostle in the same hex. If this unit captures a city or is adjacent to a city when it is captured, the city will automatically adopt the Conquistador player's Religion as the dominant Religion. (The same except with a movement of 3, in my version Melee would have a base movement of 3)

Mission (UB)
Unique building and replacement for the Shrine
+2 Faith
+2 Science
+1 Citizen slot
+2 Great Prophet point per turn.

(Combines the Mission's bonuses into the Spanish shrine, it help's Philip with getting his religion with an extra prophet point and helps him a little with Science so he doesn't fall too far behind since he will be typically building a campus later than most opponents because of the importance of religion for Spain)

 

[jekke]

Maybe the US should get a "Commodore Perry" type of unit that forces other civs to trade with them?

I do like this, for example, getting better deals from someone you can demand tribute from, but I strongly doubt they have balls to really implement this.

 

[orasis]

- Please allow for all unique units to be upgraded to from a previous unit. This means replacing a vanilla unit. Some Civs being able to pre-build while others can't immediately creates some serious balance issues not to mention the ones that cannot be upgraded to usually land on some annoying part of the tech tree which ends up costing the player more science & production than another player that gets the benefit of a smoother tech tree friendly UU.

- Seriously rework unique tile improvements. All of them pretty much suck. I can't think of one that's even slightly decent ( If I had to rank them I'd say the Kurgan is the best but that's pretty sad since Scythia is so strong already). It's broken that certain Civs get unique districts with all those benefits while other civs get a ****ty tile improvement for their UB.

- Please change the bonuses for Civs that rely on continents (Teddy, Victoria, Spain, France, etc.) This is not very viable in competitive play (which is exclusively Pangea) and is too random (you might spawn next to another continent or not). Yes on a continents map Civs like Victoria can really benefit from this but that's highly situational still. It's broken that some Civs get strong bonuses in pretty much any scenario while others have to have the stars align just right just to be somewhat competitive.

- Increase base movement of melee combat units to 3 instead of 2. The new terrain/movement rules really make melee poor units compared to cav in most cases. Also help the Spearman out. These are not effective anti-cav units even though that's their class.

- Do something about water tiles. Civs that start with a coastal bias are already set behind and typically the Civs that excel at coastal play are not even that good anyways.

Just read the new patch, seems like step in the right direction.

1. Balance does not mean everyone has the exact same path it only means that everyone has a realistic chance at victory. Civilizations which are able to upgrade vanilla units into UU's generally lack the buffs that civilizations that lack the upgrade ability have. Giving even more power to the civilizations without upgrade abilities would give them a huge advantage.

2. Continents are present on Pangea. Map over the terrain or use the 'continent' lens. Pangea usually includes 2-3 continents.

3. Melee units should be poor in relation to cavalry units. Historically that makes sense. Also, I find the spearman quite effective against cavalry.

 

[orasis]

Every nation has fought a war to establish itself (and those that no longer exist ended through war) If you discount the nation building wars American wars have either generally been ideological, helping an ally or defending themselves (Compare that to Spain, France and Britain who fought a lot of wars around "nicking someones country")

Dude, America is basically 52 nations in one. All of it was conquered and stolen/annexed. America is by far the most successful conquering/war-mongering nation in the entire history of this planet.

Teddy's new line for the expansion should be "We are America. Your cultural and technological distinctiveness will be added to our own. Resistance is futile." && "Why do you resist? We only wish to raise quality of life for all nations."

"Out of many, one. We will work as one nation. You must comply."

I cannot wait for the expac!

 

[GT_OKEZ]

1. Balance does not mean everyone has the exact same path it only means that everyone has a realistic chance at victory. Civilizations which are able to upgrade vanilla units into UU's generally lack the buffs that civilizations that lack the upgrade ability have. Giving even more power to the civilizations without upgrade abilities would give them a huge advantage.

2. Continents are present on Pangea. Map over the terrain or use the 'continent' lens. Pangea usually includes 2-3 continents.

3. Melee units should be poor in relation to cavalry units. Historically that makes sense. Also, I find the spearman quite effective against cavalry.

1.Do you play multi-player? Which Civs would be op with upgrade option into a UU?

Make the rough rider an upgrade for horsemen - roughly similar in stats to the Cossack. The Cossack is a very strong unit and Russia's bonuses outclass America's in almost every case you'd be able to think of

I'm saying, for the sake of balance, give all the Civs equal opportunities to exploit their strengths.

Arabia can upgrade heavy chariots into Mamluks. Arabia's other bonuses are quite strong, same with the Legion and Rome.

2. I know how continents work in this game. If you played Pangea (especially in multiplayer) you'll soon realize that you're largely confined to a certain space to build your Civ which is normally within a continent. Colonizing other continents becomes less viable. The continent bonuses are not consistent (i.e. you could be England and lucky enough to spawn near a continental divide but if you're America in the same situation your ability is nerfed - vice versa if you're England and not spawned anywhere near a continental divide, meanwhile , Civs like Scythia get their bonuses consistently in almost any situation).

3. Spearmen are **** and easily overwhelmed by Cav. Their combat strength is fairly low and they are very slow in comparison. The pikeman upgrade is on a dead end path and requires a lopsided science investment just to counter Cav slamming. I have no problem with melee class units like Warriors & swordsmen getting outclassed by Cav but not anti-cav class units. That shouldn't happen. Hoplites do better but that requires you to lock in only Greece.

 

[GT_OKEZ]

My version of America

Teddy's unique leader ability: Naturalists cost 25% less faith and are available earlier in the Civics tree at Civil Engineering, +1 Appeal to all tiles in a city with a National Park. Gain the Rough Rider unique unit, which replaces Cavalry and is available at Military Science.

(Reasoning: This streamlines Teddy's cultural bonuses more prominently and gives America a reliable UU to upgrade into. It allows for a faster naturalist for a cheaper price giving for an incentive for players to really capitalize on this and it feels smoother. The continent bonus is removed however a combat bonus is worked into the Civilization's unique ability instead)

America's unique Civ ability "Founding Fathers." Earn all government legacy bonuses in half the usual time, American combat units gain a +1% combat strength for every +2% legacy bonus earned while under the same government the legacy is earned from.

Example: An American combat unit gains +1% combat strength when you've earned a 2 legacy percentage points per government type. So if you're in 'classical republic' and have earned a 6% legacy bonus you're units have +3% additional combat strength while still in Classical Republic. Legacy bonuses are permanent while combat bonuses reset when the government is switched.

(Reasoning: This adds to a pretty weak bonus by adding a combat bonus. It gives the incentive to players to really prioritize and want to 'milk' America's unique bonus. As America adopts a government it learns and becomes more stable across the board which benefits the civilization in all aspects including militarily)

Unique Unit : Rough Rider

Culture is earned from kills. Gains +10 Combat Strength when fighting on Hills. Lower maintenance cost. Still retains the current combat strength and movement (67/5) but removed the continent restriction.

P-51 Mustang stays the same.

 

[GT_OKEZ]

Forgot the Film Studio. +100% Tourism is pretty straight forward and quite strong.

 

[Sascha77]

- Please allow for all unique units to be upgraded to from a previous unit. This means replacing a vanilla unit.

Yeah.. I don't quite get that one either.

IIRC, Samurai are one example for this. You should be able to upgrade to them from Swordsmen (what is a Samurai if not a more advanced Swordsman?), but you can't.

Since I haven't played all leaders yet: Do we really not have a hard rule governing the ability/inability to upgrade to a unique unit? Read: Either everyone can do it or nobody can? If it's a "mixed" kinda deal, that should definitely be changed. Either you can upgrade to a UU or you can't.

I just hope this is something that'll get "fixed" or normalized once we get the first expansion and new, "fill-in-the-gaps" kinda units (like Composite Bowmen, Longswordmen, etc). My example of the Samurai is one that I would expect to get fixed by the introduction of a plain Longswordman for all civs.

The lack of units is something which (IMO) should've been addressed in the vanilla version anyway. Some of the gaps in the military-tech-tree are so huge, it's not even funny (Pikemen to AT-teams...really? )