Arioch's Analyst Thread

[snipperrabbit!!]

Armory sucks you 2 gold for maintenance.

 

[kurtkage]

I'm sure people noticed this but I have to comment on the University giving 1 specialist slot compared to Library of 2.... Probably a balance issue and gameplay > realism but come on man! Universities can conduct major research compared to a library

edit: ok maybe because the "manual specialist" box isn't checked it does not show the empty specialist slots avail and is only showing assigned citizens?

Edit: Also 12 out of 28 votes for diplo victory seems low, but not knowing how hard it is to get a vote maybe is fine.

 

[AriochIV]

Also 12 out of 28 votes for diplo victory seems low, but not knowing how hard it is to get a vote maybe is fine.

I believe it means 12 more votes are needed; the player already has 7. 19 of 28 would make two-thirds.

 

[PinkHammurabi]

I'm sure people noticed this but I have to comment on the University giving 1 specialist slot compared to Library of 2.... Probably a balance issue and gameplay > realism but come on man! Universities can conduct major research compared to a library

edit: ok maybe because the "manual specialist" box isn't checked it does not show the empty specialist slots avail and is only showing assigned citizens?

Edit: Also 12 out of 28 votes for diplo victory seems low, but not knowing how hard it is to get a vote maybe is fine.

Yeah, but the University likely has a larger gross output of science than the library. And, maybe, the fact that anyone can learn inside a library but a university is obviously tuition based and therefor limited can help back this up? A bit of a stretch, yeah, but the output is still the main argument here.

 

[Schuesseled]

I'm sure people noticed this but I have to comment on the University giving 1 specialist slot compared to Library of 2.... Probably a balance issue and gameplay > realism but come on man! Universities can conduct major research compared to a library

.

Realism?

There are less degree educated scientists than thier are customers at a library.

 

[Souron]

I'm sure people noticed this but I have to comment on the University giving 1 specialist slot compared to Library of 2.... Probably a balance issue and gameplay > realism but come on man! Universities can conduct major research compared to a library

Universities give a 50% science boost, so their benefit is indeed greater then a library's. However, you got to ask, how many additional scholars does a university allow. With out a library, it's hard to imagine any possible scholars. But with a university, the people who would work at the university can still be scholars.

 

[kurtkage]

hehe whoa yea I'm not all that hardcore about it guys!

I'm cool with it giving a larger base benefit, was only thinking in my head about discoveries made at the "University of Blank" as being more than 1 specialist compared to a library, but I certainly see the other side of it that libraries in older eras Were the universities of their time and very important to history etc etc.

 

[DeepQantas]

4/(1*1.3*1.3*1.3)=1.821

It implies that each city manage to produce the same amount of culture each turn but I assume it's safe to say that for a given tech level you would want to have equity between cities (land grabing, sp purchase, ...).

So, standard civ capitol produces 1 at start while subsequent cities start at 0. That means your 2nd city will harm you in that area and the monument is handy to begin with.
The French doesn't have this problem because Paris will yield 3 culture and following cities 2.

It means french will just be 16.66% under max efficiency with 2 cit no cultural bldg while others will be at 50% efficiency for the same situation.

1.538*0.833=1.281
1.538*0.5=0.769

with monument in these 2 cities

1.538*0.875=1.346
1.538*0.666=1.024

On the other hand, if the 30% increases are added independently:
4/(1+0.3+0.3+0.3)=2.105

...and as you add cities, that's only going to get bigger.


Unless the preview explicitly made a distinction between multiplying the culture cost with each new city and simply adding 30% of the base amount, I wouldn't assume either way until there's hard proof. It's a common source of confusion.

e:
This is it, I assume: http://www.australiangamer.com/preview/3290_civilization_v.html

e2:
After reading that, I wouldn't be surprised if he'd mistaken the increasing cost of social policies over time for this.

 

[DeepQantas]

I believe it means 12 more votes are needed; the player already has 7. 19 of 28 would make two-thirds.

At 3:26:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82-S2FbdQV0&feature=player_embedded

You have: 1
Total available: 25
Needed: 10

11 out of 25 is 44%, nowhere near 2/3.

If we instead assume Needed is an absolute value, then you only need 40% of the Total votes. In the screenshot, 12 out of 28 is also 42.9% (one vote less being 39.3%).


e:
Also, Mandate of Heaven policy is almost visible at 3:33...

 

[stealth_nsk]

If we instead assume Needed is an absolute value, then you only need 40% of the Total votes. In the screenshot, 12 out of 28 is also 42.9% (one vote less being 39.3%).

Remember - AI are playing to win now, so you can't have their votes for victory, only city-states. The percentage could also depend on starting number of city states.

 

[AriochIV]

It may make sense from a gameplay perspective, but 40% of the vote to win is extremely lame.

"Less than half of the people support you. In fact, 60% of them hate your guts. YOU WIN!"

Not to mention that it's possible for two different players to have more than 40% of the vote.

 

[es4]

e:
Also, Mandate of Heaven policy is almost visible at 3:33...

It says "50% of excess happiness turn to that amount of culture spent on social policies". (there may be a word or two cut off to make it more grammatical).

 

[Nicolas10]

I plan on turning off Diplomatic Victory... As I did in Civ IV.

After building a civilization for Hours (and millennia), I could care less about some farcical UN Vote. The "Best" Civilization accomplishes something.

 

[AriochIV]

"50% of excess Happiness (.....) turn to the amount of Culture (.....) spent on Social Policies." There are quite a few words cut off in each of the gaps.

 

[Thyrwyn]

Remember - AI are playing to win now, so you can't have their votes for victory, only city-states. The percentage could also depend on starting number of city states.

I have never seen this said, or even implied. In fact, if no civ would ever vote for another to win a diplo victory, there would be no reason to give each civ a vote, since only the City State votes would matter.

The only time "playing to win" has been mentioned in the preview articles has been in regards to the behavior of City States:

City-States are the smaller political entities in Civilization V. They cannot win a game - they're not competing against you - but they can greatly assist or impede your progress towards victory.

If you can provide a source that says differently, I would truly appreciate a link.

 

[DeepQantas]

Another reason not to conquer too many City States: Smaller total number of votes means easier diplo victory.

Of course it only applies to the point where there's as many City States as Civs. After that, taking 'em out means a larger percentage of HECK NO votes.


Disabling Diplo victory will change the balance as City States become less important and more expendable.


Do conquered civs still have a vote? If not, then knocking them out is doubly dangerous and you better focus on whoever has most City States in their pocket. If they do have a vote, then they'll probably still vote HECK NO just in case they recapture their capital or something...

 

[Aussie_Lurker]

I have never seen this said, or even implied. In fact, if no civ would ever vote for another to win a diplo victory, there would be no reason to give each civ a vote, since only the City State votes would matter.

The only time "playing to win" has been mentioned in the preview articles has been in regards to the behavior of City States:If you can provide a source that says differently, I would truly appreciate a link.

Yes, I think some people have taken the "play to win" claims made way back at the GDC & run away with it. When I read the whole "play to win" thing, I just took it to mean that the AI will now actively seek to win the game, but *not* at the expense of being totally illogical. As far as the Diplomatic Victory goes, I'm assuming each Civ will do its best to obtain enough votes to win but, if it can't, then it will vote for the Civ which (a) has the best chance of winning & (b) more importantly, has done the most kind things for it during the game.

Aussie.

 

[DeepQantas]

Or they could just vote themselves and have the game not end cos no one has enough votes?

The whole point of friendly City States is that the AI Civs can be as cutthroat as possible in comparison.

 

[AriochIV]

If it works as it does in Civ IV, there are only two candidates; every civ can't vote for itself. Though they might be able to abstain.

The most important thing is that you'll be able to see how many votes you have, so at least you'll know whether triggering an election will cause you to win or lose.

 

[Thyrwyn]

When I read the whole "play to win" thing, I just took it to mean that the AI will now actively seek to win the game, but *not* at the expense of being totally illogical.

That was my understanding as well.