Arioch's Analyst Thread

[snipperrabbit!!]

Take that cautiously, it shall not be the case anymore !

 

[AriochIV]

The above quote probably refers to a request to capture a city-state. The wording used in one screenshots of the Foreign Advisor is: "Belgrade wants us to wipe out Bucharest! Why do they want that? Sounds cruel, but I'm sure it's for a perfectly valid reason." But I would not necessarily infer that this wording means you are required to raze the city.

 

[DalekDavros]

You could adopt Piety and not lose too much by switching to Rationalism.
Adopt Piety => +2 happy
Adopt Mandate of heaven => 1/2 extra happiness converted to culture
and Free Religion

Free Religion gives 2 free social policies, so you get MoH and FR free, while with MoH might earn you enough extra culture to pay for adopting Piety in the first place.

So, the only cost to adopt Piety is the opportunity cost of adopting something else and 1 turn of anarchy.

Don't forget that the cost-per-policy increases with each policy you adopt. Assuming the cost per policy doesn't drop back down when you switch trees, the new policies are going to be significantly more expensive, which will probably be a much bigger loss than the turn of anarchy (at least, if one cares about having lots of SPs)

 

[Jacsó Benjámin]

Eyy, Arioch. According to a review on this site here the SA of the Iroquois has apparently been changed to treating forests and jungles as roads within cultural borders. And also according to the same preview, there are Terra maps. I don't know if you have this on your site, but I didn't find it anywhere

 

[AriochIV]

Eyy, Arioch. According to a review on this site here the SA of the Iroquois has apparently been changed to treating forests and jungles as roads within cultural borders. And also according to the same preview, there are Terra maps. I don't know if you have this on your site, but I didn't find it anywhere

I have heard several reports that the Iroquois ability has changed, but I don't yet have solid information on what it has changed to.

In these last few weeks before release, a lot that's on the site will become outdated at a very rapid pace.

 

[Lyoncet]

There was the Longhouse reveal, in that it provides +1 hammer from forests, but unfortunately I don't think that post mentioned what it replaced nor did it have a SS. So more of a "just get it out there" than a "confirmed feature."

 

[Jacsó Benjámin]

I have heard several reports that the Iroquois ability has changed, but I don't yet have solid information on what it has changed to.

In these last few weeks before release, a lot that's on the site will become outdated at a very rapid pace.

Yeah man, I understand. I just thought I'd say as I couldn't find it on the site

 

[SevenSpirits]

I decided to write down the Commerce policy effects because Aussie Lurker's incessant complaining about the military focus of policies was annoying me. Then I figured I'd get the Rationalism ones too.

COMMERCE: +25% gold in capital

NAVAL TRADITION: +1 Movement and +1 sight for naval combat units
MERCHANT NAVY: +3 production in coastal cities (req Naval Tradition)

TRADE UNIONS: -20% maintenance cost for roads and railroads
MERCANTILISM: -25% cost to purchase (rush) items in cities (req Trade Unions)
PROTECTIONISM: +1 happiness from each luxury resource (req Mercantilism)


RATIONALISM: 5 turn golden age

SECULARISM: +2 science from each specialist
FREE THOUGHT: +2 science from each Trading Post (req Secularism)
SCIENTIFIC REVOLUTION: 2 free technologies (req Free Thought)

HUMANISM: +1 happiness from each University
SOVEREIGNTY: +15% science while your empire is happy (req Humanism)

 

[Tibblers]

Oh, so one ability has anything to do with combat in Commerce. Cool.

So if we split up the social policies into Science, Culture, Economy, Military and Diplomacy, Military takes up 2 trees. Its exact share.

 

[MisterBarca]

I decided to write down the Commerce policy effects because Aussie Lurker's incessant complaining about the military focus of policies was annoying me. Then I figured I'd get the Rationalism ones too.

COMMERCE: +25% gold in capital

NAVAL TRADITION: +1 Movement and +1 sight for naval combat units
MERCHANT NAVY: +3 production in coastal cities (req Naval Tradition)

TRADE UNIONS: -20% maintenance cost for roads and railroads
MERCANTILISM: -25% cost to purchase (rush) items in cities (req Trade Unions)
PROTECTIONISM: +1 happiness from each luxury resource (req Mercantilism)


RATIONALISM: 5 turn golden age

SECULARISM: +2 science from each specialist
FREE THOUGHT: +2 science from each Trading Post (req Secularism)
SCIENTIFIC REVOLUTION: 2 free technologies (req Free Thought)

HUMANISM: +1 happiness from each University
SOVEREIGNTY: +15% science while your empire is happy (req Humanism)

Since you have played the game, would you know the stats for the Indian, Songhai, and Russian UUs?

 

[better days]

RATIONALISM: 5 turn golden age

SECULARISM: +2 science from each specialist
FREE THOUGHT: +2 science from each Trading Post (req Secularism)
SCIENTIFIC REVOLUTION: 2 free technologies (req Free Thought)

HUMANISM: +1 happiness from each University
SOVEREIGNTY: +15% science while your empire is happy (req Humanism)

First of all I think Rationalism looks pretty awesome. 2 free techs upon obtaining Scientific Revolution could be very, very powerful.

Its also interesting how Secularism and Free Thought don't seem to work well together; if there's the SE vs. CE (TPE?) dilemma as there was in Civ4, then as farms increase to support more specialists, trading posts go down. So if Secularism is really helpful, Free thought might not be so much, and vice versa

 

[Monadenia]

Its also interesting how Secularism and Free Thought don't seem to work well together; if there's the SE vs. CE (TPE?) dilemma as there was in Civ4, then as farms increase to support more specialists, trading posts go down. So if Secularism is really helpful, Free thought might not be so much, and vice versa

This is exactly the sort of delicious tension I like to see within the policies. I suspect the economies will not be quite as polarized as in Civ IV - regardless, it will make you seriously judge the tradeoffs. If you're heavy on the TPs, do you want to go through Secularim to get free thought and wait that extra bit? In the other case, with a specialist-heavy economy, do you want to go through Free Thought to get to the (obviously powerful) Scientific Revolution?

Little things like the structuring of the SP trees can make a huge impact - and I love this particular instance of it.

 

[Mercade]

I decided to write down the Commerce policy effects because Aussie Lurker's incessant complaining about the military focus of policies was annoying me. Then I figured I'd get the Rationalism ones too.

Two words: Source, please.

 

[bjbrains]

Two words: Source, please.

If you did some basic checking, you'd realize that he played it at PAX.

 

[sdlufkin]

Two words: Source, please.

Thank you, SevenSpirits - your efforts ARE appreciated.

 

[Aussie_Lurker]

I decided to write down the Commerce policy effects because Aussie Lurker's incessant complaining about the military focus of policies was annoying me. Then I figured I'd get the Rationalism ones too.

COMMERCE: +25% gold in capital

NAVAL TRADITION: +1 Movement and +1 sight for naval combat units
MERCHANT NAVY: +3 production in coastal cities (req Naval Tradition)

TRADE UNIONS: -20% maintenance cost for roads and railroads
MERCANTILISM: -25% cost to purchase (rush) items in cities (req Trade Unions)
PROTECTIONISM: +1 happiness from each luxury resource (req Mercantilism)


RATIONALISM: 5 turn golden age

SECULARISM: +2 science from each specialist
FREE THOUGHT: +2 science from each Trading Post (req Secularism)
SCIENTIFIC REVOLUTION: 2 free technologies (req Free Thought)

HUMANISM: +1 happiness from each University
SOVEREIGNTY: +15% science while your empire is happy (req Humanism)

Thank you for that SevenSpirits-& yes it does help to put my mind at ease (especially if Autocracy doesn't have a 100% military focus. I'm really sorry about the last two days, btw, I was feeling both bored & frustrated-& getting increasingly depressed with some of the stuff I was reading. What you've posted has brought me more towards the neutral side of things-not *unhappy* about the game as a whole (& so more likely to buy it), but still disappointed about certain things that have been removed.

Aussie.

 

[DalekDavros]

First of all I think Rationalism looks pretty awesome. 2 free techs upon obtaining Scientific Revolution could be very, very powerful.

Its also interesting how Secularism and Free Thought don't seem to work well together; if there's the SE vs. CE (TPE?) dilemma as there was in Civ4, then as farms increase to support more specialists, trading posts go down. So if Secularism is really helpful, Free thought might not be so much, and vice versa

Taking the base data for improvements (i.e, not considering various techs that improve farms and trading posts) and base food (i.e., not considering the reduced food requirement for specialists from the Civil Society SP), the scenarios are:

1. Two farms
Two citizens working the farms support one specialist, for 3 science. A library brings in 1.5 more, the SP brings in 2 more, and the specialist herself brings in X (this number isn't known, is it?), for a total of 6.5+X science (plus the GPP).

2. Two trading posts
Two citizens work the trading posts, for 4 gold and 2 science. A library brings in 1 more, the SP brings in 4 more, for a total of 4 gold and 7 science.

X is probably 3 or 4, so I'd say that specialists are better unless you really need the gold or can't deal with the unhappiness from the higher pop. Increasing farm yield through certain techs and decreasing specialist food consumption through the Civil Society SP tilts things even more in favor of specialists (although it's possible that a tech also boosts trading post yield).

HOWEVER: the number of specialists allowed will be limited by the slots on the buildings. Those confirmed now give a total of five scientist slots, so once a city grows past size 14, you'll either need to start on trading posts or start filling the slots in the non-science buildings (if its +2 science per specialist, not per science specialist, then this would still probably be a good idea).

So, the way I see it: specialists are better, but you can only support so many. But luckily the SP that allows you to get a benefit from the spill-over population (after the specialist slots are full) is available right after Secularism--so you'll probably get there just about the time that you need it.

 

[SevenSpirits]

Two words: Source, please.

Sorry, you're right I should have put the source. I was in a rush. As bjbrains pointed out though, I did post source information a page or two ago (PAX).

Since you have played the game, would you know the stats for the Indian, Songhai, and Russian UUs?

No, sorry. Honestly I don't care all that much about the UUs.

Since you mention UU/UBs though, I did notice that the Aztec Floating Gardens were a Watermill replacement: +2 food, must adjacent to a river or lake, +15% food, +2 food from working lake tiles.

That seems pretty awesome to me (which is why I remember it so clearly). Maybe the +15% only applies to surplus food?

Thank you for that SevenSpirits-& yes it does help to put my mind at ease (especially if Autocracy doesn't have a 100% military focus. I'm really sorry about the last two days, btw, I was feeling both bored & frustrated-& getting increasingly depressed with some of the stuff I was reading. What you've posted has brought me more towards the neutral side of things-not *unhappy* about the game as a whole (& so more likely to buy it), but still disappointed about certain things that have been removed.

Aussie.

Well, I'm glad you feel a bit better about it! Personally, am a little bit underwhelmed by the actual quantity of (nonmilitary) different things in general (like, why are there no improvements that give science or culture, for a really obvious example) but the game mechanics look absolutely brilliant to me. But I guess this thread is about science, not beliefs, so sorry for the digression.

 

[Thyrwyn]

I'm really sorry about the last two days, btw, I was feeling both bored & frustrated-& getting increasingly depressed with some of the stuff I was reading.

No hard feelings, mate. There's a reason we're called "fanatics".

 

[V. Soma]

Aussie, I also feel strange about the game these days - how it will turn out to be -
but I try to keep my faith...

(My guess it will be buggy, it will have a big zero day patch, and will be patched many times in the first months - but then all will be fine...)