Art of the Possible: Backgrounds

Spaaain! (because playing a mediocre nation in 1900s is my favourite past-time)

1. As long as it remains vague and doesn't go into deep fantasy territory it'll be fine.
2. Sure.
3. Important powers (but, as Reus said, not just the big two) and then everyone else.
 
1. Japan
2. Prussia
3. Argentina
Questions:

1.I'd prefer to keep a more realistic game

2. I support a more complex economic system.

3. I do support restricted super powers
 
@bestshot: Confederates on the Rhine? Sure!


So, most of the European states now have backgrounds, and I'm upgrading Denmark's status a little to maybe a Tier 2.5 power. Tomorrow I'll finish up hopefully both Europe and the Americas.


Now, I have finally worked out how I want the basic economy to work and here's the rough system. I decided to go with the merger of two ideas. Economic Points have always failed in that they do not properly recognize the strengths of resource-based economies as opposed to industrial ones. Therefore with a bit of a nod to crezth, Industrial Capacity will act as a secondary stat to economic points. Industrial Capacity can be used to buy units for cheaper than they would be with economic points. For example, if an Infantry Division costs 10 EP to build, it may only cost 1 IC to build instead. This is to reflect the ease that industrial economies have to produce things in mass. To further develop things and to prevent anomalies such as Sardinia's massive navy in Capto Iugulum, ships, planes, and advanced army units such as armor can only be built using IC. However, such units can be traded to less industrial economies if they can not produce them on their own. Infantry Divisions will of course be able to be produced solely with EP. Now, EP can be banked and exchanged between factions, but IC cannot be banked, and must be used each turn or it will be lost.

In addition to EP and IC, I have decided on keeping only two of the resources from the Hearts of Iron games: Supplies and Fuel. Each military unit you possess will consume 3 Supplies each turn and 1 Fuel if it is a unit that consumes fuel. Supplies can be stockpiled and produced using EP and/or IC. Fuel is a resource that is generated dependent on your nation's production of oil. Both can be stockpiled and sold at your leisure. This will allow for Lend-Lease style scenarios, allowing support of another power without using any of your EP or IC used for national purposes. As with units, supplies can be produced more cheaply with IC than with EP.

Speaking of supplies and fuel, I have finally figured out a way to make Mobilization mechanics feasible! Rather than creating spontaneous new divisions in large amounts, Mobilization instead makes units use less supplies each turn. Also, units will become cheaper to produce, allowing for rapid buildup and deployment in wartime. An infantry division which in peacetime consumes 3 Supplies will instead consume 1 Supply each turn when you are fully Mobilized for war. On the flip side of this, your Mobilization will be announced to the thread as soon as I received your orders that say you are Mobilizing. This will alert other players if you're planning a surprise mobilization and attack, and help recreate some of the circumstances that led to the actual First World War. Mobilization is not something that can be easily hidden, and if you see a neighbor mobilizing for war, it is rarely a good thing. Therefore, players will be forced to choose between whether they are willing to sacrifice total mobilization for the element of strategic surprise.


That's all I have time for now, but I have also decided that Army Doctrines will still be appearing in this game, but will work in a very different manner than they did in Capto Iugulum. I'm eager to hear any comments or ideas ya'll have on the rules proposed above.
 
Sounds like a potentially unwieldy mesh for you, but if you feel comfortable with it it offers more possibilities to us players.
 
I'm keen on multiple resources (and supplies are a good way of softcapping army size) but fuel might end with poor oil producing countries hoarding massive stockpiles of oil which they can't use or sell.

Also, come the 20s, there should be a way for GPs to found a foreign oil company that will directly provide them with oil at the sufferance of the country of origin (and probably a heavily increased rate of EP growth). It's not like Persia kept any of the oil extracted by the Anglo-Iranian Oil Company and sold it on to the British.
 
It all sounds great (assuming you have the time and patience to deal with all of it), but I have some concerns with this:

On the flip side of this, your Mobilization will be announced to the thread as soon as I received your orders that say you are Mobilizing.

I see that as both being extra annoying for you to keep track of, as well as making a bit of a mess of writing orders. As in, if people want to avoid tipping off other players with mobilisation, they'll submit orders either directly on or after due dates to avoid anyone changing orders. If they do submit mobilisation orders before orders are due, it will prompt anyone else who has already submitted orders to frantically resubmit orders. I can only see this pissing people off or forcing you to extend order deadlines constantly to allow people to react to mobilisations.
 
You should instead require mobilization to be announced by the player in the thread at least 48 hours before the deadline. Otherwise their country doesn't have enough time to fully enact it, and they have reduced benefits.
 
Now, I have finally worked out how I want the basic economy to work and here's the rough system. I decided to go with the merger of two ideas. Economic Points have always failed in that they do not properly recognize the strengths of resource-based economies as opposed to industrial ones. Therefore with a bit of a nod to crezth, Industrial Capacity will act as a secondary stat to economic points. Industrial Capacity can be used to buy units for cheaper than they would be with economic points. For example, if an Infantry Division costs 10 EP to build, it may only cost 1 IC to build instead. This is to reflect the ease that industrial economies have to produce things in mass. To further develop things and to prevent anomalies such as Sardinia's massive navy in Capto Iugulum, ships, planes, and advanced army units such as armor can only be built using IC. However, such units can be traded to less industrial economies if they can not produce them on their own. Infantry Divisions will of course be able to be produced solely with EP. Now, EP can be banked and exchanged between factions, but IC cannot be banked, and must be used each turn or it will be lost.
I like it a lot. BTW, is there a way of using one's industrial capacity to support internal demand for basic goods? Maybe by converting some of the IC into stability or something else? Not sure how to balance this, but just bouncing this idea off to you.
In addition to EP and IC, I have decided on keeping only two of the resources from the Hearts of Iron games: Supplies and Fuel. Each military unit you possess will consume 3 Supplies each turn and 1 Fuel if it is a unit that consumes fuel. Supplies can be stockpiled and produced using EP and/or IC. Fuel is a resource that is generated dependent on your nation's production of oil. Both can be stockpiled and sold at your leisure. This will allow for Lend-Lease style scenarios, allowing support of another power without using any of your EP or IC used for national purposes. As with units, supplies can be produced more cheaply with IC than with EP.
Also a good system, although I really have no idea how the whole fuel thing will play out. But it's worth a try, since it opens up some pretty interesting inter-player dynamics.

Hoarding supply so far seems the best way to spend IC during peacetime for the countries that have already reached their manpower cap. Again, it's hard to balance until we start the game.
Speaking of supplies and fuel, I have finally figured out a way to make Mobilization mechanics feasible! Rather than creating spontaneous new divisions in large amounts, Mobilization instead makes units use less supplies each turn. Also, units will become cheaper to produce, allowing for rapid buildup and deployment in wartime. An infantry division which in peacetime consumes 3 Supplies will instead consume 1 Supply each turn when you are fully Mobilized for war. On the flip side of this, your Mobilization will be announced to the thread as soon as I received your orders that say you are Mobilizing. This will alert other players if you're planning a surprise mobilization and attack, and help recreate some of the circumstances that led to the actual First World War. Mobilization is not something that can be easily hidden, and if you see a neighbor mobilizing for war, it is rarely a good thing. Therefore, players will be forced to choose between whether they are willing to sacrifice total mobilization for the element of strategic surprise.
This is much more interesting than before. Is there gonna be a negative effect from mobilization on the economy or stability? Similar how enlisting your country's skilled labor force into the army/navy affects the productivity at home?

As for the notification in the thread, I think Shadowbound has a very good idea of accepting mobilization orders only 48 hours before deadline, so that you don't have to infinitely extend the deadline or rewrite entries due to revised orders.
That's all I have time for now, but I have also decided that Army Doctrines will still be appearing in this game, but will work in a very different manner than they did in Capto Iugulum. I'm eager to hear any comments or ideas ya'll have on the rules proposed above.
Are you going to overhaul or even, maybe, simplify the old armor- and aircraft-building mechanics? In Capto Iugulum it allowed two or three countries to design vehicles that were literally decades ahead of their time, even though those countries hardly had any experience of modern warfare? Historically, even the most revolutionary designs prove to be flawed until they are battle-tested, which explains why it took jet fighters fifteen years (out of which six were WW2) to move from first prototypes to effective combat aircraft. For the same reason the US armored force was so technically inferior to German panzers during the battle of Kasserine Pass in 1943, despite the huge industrial and scientific superiority of the American economy. Or why British battlecruisers were so vulnerable and gunnery so unimpressive during the battle of Jutland in 1916 after seemingly a century of clear naval supremacy and huge naval investments (basically, they hadn't had to fight anyone at sea for so long that they lost a way to tell which of their developments were effective and which were not). After all, to build good tanks and warplanes one has to not just build tanks and warplanes, but also test them in real conditions.

I'm not sure how to implement it in the game. I may suggest making separate experience stats for the five military branches: infantry, armor, air force, light navy, heavy navy, with experience for those branches decaying rapidly when they're not in practical use. These experience points could later be used to improve the designs that players created. You wouldn't need to check those parameters too often, and many countries would only use two or three of them, so I don't think it's too much work for you. However, it's also just a suggestion.
 
Foreign oil companies sounds like a good idea, I'll think on the best way that can be implemented.

Shadowbound's idea is gold, forcing players to announce mobilization at least 48 hours before the update would be the best way to track that, and take pressure off of me. A good idea!

Economic Points and IC will be an abstraction of the economy to a great degree, to the point where consumer goods and so forth are not assumed to be part of the use. Economic Points are more of a reflection of the wealth of the government and its ability to raise taxes. Mobilization and the reduced costs of supplies/units/etc, will represent the shifting of the consumer industries to military production.

Yes, it would make sense for nations to hoard supplies during peacetime, but as stated above, supplies will be more expensive in peacetime, and your armies will be consuming them too. On top of that, there's plenty of other things you may need to spend on, such as domestic projects, military buildup, or research. I am hopeful that there will be enough for people to spend their time and money on, making just hoarding supplies a bit of a disastrous policy in the long-term.

Yes, there would definitely be a negative effect on stability for mobilized nations.

Actually, the CI armor/aircraft/ship design mechanics are gone completely. Doctrines alone will be what remains. They were just too much additional work in balancing and development to be worth it. Tech levels will be expressed far more abstractly, particularly since units will be on the division size, and not the brigade size.
 
I've heard that doctrines were a massive moneysink; are they fixed now in this new iteration?
 
I've heard that doctrines were a massive moneysink; are they fixed now in this new iteration?

Well, if unit design is out, that frees up a lot more resources for doctrines.
 
Rommel concluded the exact opposite about Kasserine, namely that US equipment was good but that US troops and were green and their leadership lacklustre. It's also worth bearing in mind that in early March at Medenine Rommel lost a significant number of tanks to the British, while von Armin in late March-early April drew with Patton at El Geuttar. (It also needs to be noted that more tanks were lost to anti-tank guns than other tanks so we should really be talking about those instead).
 
Actually, the CI armor/aircraft/ship design mechanics are gone completely. Doctrines alone will be what remains. They were just too much additional work in balancing and development to be worth it. Tech levels will be expressed far more abstractly, particularly since units will be on the division size, and not the brigade size.
I'm completely happy with that, actually.
Rommel concluded the exact opposite about Kasserine, namely that US equipment was good but that US troops and were green and their leadership lacklustre. It's also worth bearing in mind that in early March at Medenine Rommel lost a significant number of tanks to the British, while von Armin in late March-early April drew with Patton at El Geuttar. (It also needs to be noted that more tanks were lost to anti-tank guns than other tanks so we should really be talking about those instead).
Good point.
 
Actually doctrines this time around won't be costing as much (maybe nothing) to develop. More funds are likely to be sunk into the more abstract tech progression of army/navy/air force which will be loosely modeled upon tech advancement in EU4.

Overall, the economy sizes of Capto Iugulum are going to be greatly reduced. Instead of Britain or Russia in CI having 600-900 EP for expenses, they will have substantially lower than that. While I cannot say definitively what the exact amounts are going to be yet, I'll be aiming for the great powers to have something in the 90-110 range. Deflation makes things simpler both for you and me.
 
So I'm going to throw this out there as a possibility. Would anyone be interested in a test game using the resource/army mechanics for maybe 4-5 updates? The background for such a game would be loosely based on the Army Men video game franchise, with four players being Green, Gray, Tan, and Blue. Most it would just test the military and resource mechanics of the game as they are currently laid out. Ideally, this could be something we could accomplish in a afternoon, on iotchat or Steam chat.
 
Tan Command checking in
 
All of Europe's backgrounds are completed at this point, and I would still like three other volunteers for a possible test-run of the military rules this weekend.
 
I would love to but my wife would never go for that. So sorry.
 
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