Art of the Possible

[Immaculate]

When is the last date/time for declaring mobilization?

 

[EQandcivfanatic]

The last chance to declare Mobilization will be Saturday night.

 

[Nuka-sama]

To: Naples
CC: France
From: Italy

Italy did not mean Nationalists, we meant Nationals. We apologize for the error in translation.

Then you mean only people from the Kingdom of Italy? Only the people of Italy are Italians. The people of the Kingdom of Naples are Neapolitan. They are not Italian. There is no purpose to loosen the borders between your nations, and We highly recommend that Italy simply withdraws its treaty entirely, and to keep with the status quo in terms of passports and border control.

 

[Nailix]

To: France
From: Italy

We did rescind the treaty entirely, we just wanted to clarify the mistake we made. It was mainly an attempt to increase tourism between each nation, it didn't have to be specifically Italians, but that was what we were offering. We would have liked to also open our borders more to flow from their people as well, but figured we would start with an offer of our own.

 

[Blaze Injun]

Hey,

To: World
From: Korea Empire

Korea signs.

Emperor Gwangmu of the Korean Empire, Land of the Morning Calm

OCC Rant

Spoiler :

It was pointed out many times that I must play the background. Even the influence of Japan must be stated in the Treaty. Well I don't see the following playing out.

In 1900, the British and French remain at each other’s throats,... If this was the case I'd think the cooperation on the Korean Question is a little out of the ordinary. Of course not using skype or evening hearing back from some players may color my view. Then again, this was most likely the way the world worked in 1900.

O'yeah, one last qoute which seemed overlooked.

4. Don’t be an ass.

Blaze Injun

 

[EQandcivfanatic]

To be fair, if Masada and Nuke want to try to reverse a hundred years of hostility and make amends, that is their prerogative, assuming they feel that is in their best nation interests. Of course the diplomatic ramifications of such a route are unknown at this point, but I would look forward to seeing what comes.

 

[Blaze Injun]

Hey,

To be fair, if Masada and Nuke want to try to reverse a hundred years of hostility and make amends, that is their prerogative, assuming they feel that is in their best nation interests. Of course the diplomatic ramifications of such a route are unknown at this point, but I would look forward to seeing what comes.

Then to be fair the change for Korea not wanting Japanese influence is valid? That being told I had to play under Japanese influence whether I liked it or not was wrong?


Blaze Injun

 

[DuneBear]

I think you're generally supposed to follow the background, and the politics of your ruler, but you can also do what ever the hell you want - just expect some consequences, potentially.

 

[EQandcivfanatic]

I think you're generally supposed to follow the background, and the politics of your ruler, but you can also do what ever the hell you want - just expect some consequences, potentially.

This is the best way to phrase it, I'd say.

 

[Masada]

All we've done is perfectly in keeping with how Great Powers have interacted with each other in the real world. Sure we might disagree over a lot, and there's a lot of stuff neither of us are going to give ground on, but that doesn't stop us cooperating on matters of mutual interest. The mere fact that certain people can't quite seem to grasp this and keep sniping at us because we frustrated a particular goal of theirs with perfectly good reason isn't our problem, particularly when they completely misunderstand why we did it.

*

Note also, Korea's signature isn't required and wasn't asked for.

 

[Blaze Injun]

Hey,

Note also, Korea's signature isn't required and wasn't asked for.

It was asked for so don't be a ass.

Please publicly acknowledge and confirm the Treaty of La Rochelle.

Sorry. I should have used the words confirmed and acknowledge.


Blaze Injun

 

[TheLastJacobite]

To World
From Poland

The Polish Foreign Ministry presents two recent treaties.

The Baltic Sea Alliance
1) The Kingdoms of Denmark and Poland agree to a defensive alliance, viewing an attack on one to be an attack on both.
2) Danish and Polish ships (both commercial and warships) will be allowed access to both nations ports, both in Europe and abroad
3) Both nations will work jointly to encourage trade within the nations on the Baltic Sea.
4) In order to ensure that trade among the Baltic states is not disrupted, Polish and Danish ships will jointly patrol the Baltic Sea, providing protection for all ships navigating upon the waters there

The Polish-Ukrainian Accord
1) Poland reaffirms its defensive and economic commitment to Ukraine
2) Poland will provide Ukraine with the agreed upon amount of Supplies a year
2) Ukraine will supply Poland with the agreed upon amount of Fuel a year
3) Both parties will reassess the terms of the Accord every 5 years, or earlier if both deem it necessary.

His Majesty King Jan III gladly signs both treaties

 

[DuneBear]

The Danish Foreign Ministry, and His Majesty, King Christian IX, agree to the terms stated in the Baltic Sea Alliance.

Signed, King Christian IX of Oldenburg

OOC: I would have thought Korea's signature would have been needed, or at least requested, seeing as Articles 3 and 4 are requesting the government of Korea to take actions. Unless I am wrong, or not reading the correct treaty.

 

[theDright]

The Kingdom of Ukraine agrees to the Polish-Ukrainian Accord.

Signed, King Kasimir Kalinowski

 

[Nuka-sama]

Hey,


Then to be fair the change for Korea not wanting Japanese influence is valid? That being told I had to play under Japanese influence whether I liked it or not was wrong?


Blaze Injun

OOC:

Essentially, yes. Japan has influence in Korea, so you must play as though Japan has interests in Korea. You may try to think longer term on how you might chart a more independent destiny, but in 1900, you must recognize that many people, including those in your own government, are very pro Japanese. Yes, you do have some CSA influence, but it pales in comparison to your Eastern neighbor.

Keep in mind I guess that in this sort of situation, its a zero-sum game for the Great Powers. Any gain by the CSA is a loss for Japan. So of course the Japanese are upset, and were it not for the intervention of Russia, France, UK, and USA, you would likely have lost your nation to an uprising/Japanese annexation. You can't just do whatever you want, you have to recognize that your actions will have consequences.

 

[thomas.berubeg]

OOC:

Essentially, yes. Japan has influence in Korea, so you must play as though Japan has interests in Korea. You may try to think longer term on how you might chart a more independent destiny, but in 1900, you must recognize that many people, including those in your own government, are very pro Japanese. Yes, you do have some CSA influence, but it pales in comparison to your Eastern neighbor.

Keep in mind I guess that in this sort of situation, its a zero-sum game for the Great Powers. Any gain by the CSA is a loss for Japan. So of course the Japanese are upset, and were it not for the intervention of Russia, France, UK, and USA, you would likely have lost your nation to an uprising/Japanese annexation. You can't just do whatever you want, you have to recognize that your actions will have consequences.

Moderator Action: <snip> Images with profanity are not allowed...
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[Shadowbound]

Japan notes that Korea is now being forced to accept a treaty more onerous and restricting than that we proposed, and with none of the benefits. In the process it has badly damaged its international reputation and lost considerable face. Had it stood in solidarity with its Asian brother, this could have been avoided.

Treaty of La Rochelle​

Signatory Parties:

The United Kingdom, Empire of France and United States of America

Observer Parties:

Empire of Russia, Empire of Japan and the Confederate States of America

Article I: The Signatory and Observer Parties recognise and affirm the principle of the independence of Korea.

Article II: The Signatory Parties through Resident Generals shall advise the Korean Government of its foreign policy including the conduct of its military reforms and the basing of foreign troops and ships in the Korean Peninsula.

Article III: The Government of Korea shall extend to all parties equal access and treatment with respect to the law, including extraterritoriality, and the conduct of trade.

Article IV: The Government of Korea shall abolish the institution of slavery.

Article V: The Signatory Parties recognise the Empire of Japan has special interest in the Korean Peninsula.

Article VI: The Confederate States of America shall withdraw the Treaty of Richmond and the Empire of Japan shall withdraw the Japanese-Korean Treaty of Friendship as injurious to the peace and the balance of powers.

------[/I]

Prime Minister Yamagata Aritomo

Foreign Minister Aoki Shuzo

 

[Ahigin]

OOC: Injun, this is exactly what the Great Game (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Great_Game) was about: bigger countries luring smaller and/or less advanced countries into their spheres of influence. It wasn't always a negative thing for "sphered" countries, since the great powers usually supported their threats with plenty of benefits. "Sphered" countries didn't always lose from being in the middle, although it did require a good deal of diplomatic intuition.

1900-1920 were the peak of imperialism, with a short comeback during the WWII with its Realpolitik. EQ's game actually catches this quite nicely. If you don't like that this aspect of this game is so well-defined, I can cheer you up a bit: imperialism died down eventually, and I'm fairly sure it will become much less pronounced as the game goes by.

As for my thoughts on the Korean crisis, I think the Great Powers pretty much saved you from becoming a satellite or a battleground and eventually a colony of another country. It's not an ideal treaty for you, but it's much better than you could've gotten if they didn't intervene.

And one more thought on UK and France working together here. I assure you that current geopolitics in the game looks like "bulldogs fighting under a carpet", using the words of Winston Churchill. "An outsider only hears the growling, and when he sees the bones fly out from beneath, it is obvious who won." This diplomatic gamble doesn't reach you, because you're dealing with a regional gamble of your own, taking place in the Yellow Sea region. But trust me, it's there. It just happened so that both superpowers and a number of other great powers had certain interests in Korea, and the best way to settle it was through negotiations.

 

[Masada]

What he said.

 

[Blaze Injun]

Hey,

​

Blaze Injun