1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

Art of War mod

Discussion in 'Civ5 - Modpacks' started by Ordian, Oct 7, 2010.

  1. Ordian

    Ordian Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2010
    Messages:
    8
    Art of War v4

    Available now in the mod browser, the main idea of the Art of War mod is to capitalize of the new combat mechanics of civilization 5 and enhance them ever further to increase the need for strategic combat. The purpose that I feel it is needed is that in the vanilla game, while stacks of doom are no longer an aspect of the game, there is still little forethought required in building a world dominating force as creating a diversity of different military units is not really required for military conquest.

    This mod is a work in progress and will more then likely be for quite some time, and I plan on using feedback from the civ fanatics community on things they would like to see included as well as play testing and reporting issues that they might have.

    So without further ado
    Changes

    City and Civilization:
    1) City Attack range set at 3
    2) Cities have triple hp (Down from quad)
    3) dubble heal rates of cities
    4) Roads now require removal of forest and jungle
    5) Walls defense increased to 7.5
    6) Castle Defense increased to 10
    7) Very Unhappy combat penalty increased to -50%
    8) Very unhappy production penalty increase to -75%

    Units:
    1) Armor Units and Elephant Units cannot pass through forest or jungle
    2) Foot solider units (melee and gunpower that are non-polearm) have bonus of 50% vs cities, but 35% weakness to mounted units
    3) Siege Units have a bonus of 50% vs cities in addition to what they had already
    4) Mounted Units cannot capture cities
    5) Range of tanks, siege weapons, and certain naval range increased
    6) Scouts can traverse mountains
    7) Unit HP is set at 20

    Healing:
    1) Healing is set at 1/2/3/4 for territory that is enemy/netural/friendly/in city
    2) Medic promotion now heals 2hp in neutral territory, 1hp in enemy, and 1hp for adjacent units
    3) Supply Promotion now heals 2hp in neutral territory, but 1hp in enemy
    4) Survivalism 1 promotion now heals 2hp in neutral territory, but 1hp in enemy
    5) Faster Heal promotion heals 2hp in neutral territory, 1hp in enemy, and 3hp in friendly
    6) Heal if destroy enemy promotion heals 15hp (up from 10)
    7) partial heal if destroy enemy heals 4hp
     
  2. Dragonlord

    Dragonlord Fantasy Warlord

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2002
    Messages:
    2,234
    Location:
    Stuttgart, Germany
    This sounds good!

    Just one question: if ranged units can't capture cities and mech inf gets a range too, just what are we going to capture cities with in the modern age? :D Keep some obsolete units around for that....?

    And... welcome to CFC!
     
  3. V. Soma

    V. Soma long time civ fan

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2004
    Messages:
    3,829
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Hungary
    yes, this all sounds good, just let some modern unit capture city, as Dragonlord asks... :)
     
  4. V. Soma

    V. Soma long time civ fan

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2004
    Messages:
    3,829
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Hungary
    Will the AI somewhat know what to do with all these changes? ;)
     
  5. tompliss

    tompliss Warlord

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2010
    Messages:
    201
    Since ranges are greatly increased, what about the "view range" of units ? the cities' one (1 + culture should really be increased for this mod...) ?
     
  6. R0GERSHRUBBER

    R0GERSHRUBBER Shrubber

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2005
    Messages:
    213
    Location:
    Ann Arbor, MI
    The city attack range should only increase once Catapults are available (or whenever the cities defenses use catapults instead of arrows).
     
  7. Abremms

    Abremms Prince

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2010
    Messages:
    436
    i like #1 and #7, but I can't say i agree with giving ranged attack to just about everything in the modern era. realistic or not, I guess i will have to play it to see, but i have serious doubts.

    also, tanks and elephants should be able to move through forests and jungles if there is a road on the tile.
     
  8. jwallstone

    jwallstone Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2010
    Messages:
    59
    Good job on trying to spice up the combat. You mention working on ambushes - did you know the game engine already includes invisibility, but isn't really used (except subs)? Maybe allow infantry to become invisible in forests as an action similar to fortify.
     
  9. Ordian

    Ordian Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2010
    Messages:
    8
    @ Dragonlord and V.Soma: Paratroopers from the modern are still able to capture cities, and I have not been able to test out the AI completely as performing a complete playtest, which would include multiple games at different speeds all by myself is something time will not allow. But hey, that's why I pay you the big bucks.

    @tompliss: sight is not increased for the units that I have increased range, and this is part of the design and purpose of the mod. Added a little tactics section at the top to explain it a little more.

    @RogerShrubber: Will have to look into the coding possibilities of that, but being fresh modding civ games (have done other titles) and learning their methods is quite the process.

    @Abremms: I do agree that tanks and elephants should be able to move through forest if a road exists, and I am working on a method to get that in game, but the code is smacking me around a little when I work on that. When I designate a unit to not go through forest or jungle, it is a hard stop. Trying to work on a way to tell the game "if there is a road there then it is okay". Also, if you do not find some changes that I have made not to your liking then let me know, and if you would give me some details on why. It is that type of information that I am looking for.

    @jwallstone: Thanks for the support, and I am currently looking into using invisibility for solders in forests, and perhaps future recon units that I create (Snipers anyone). Trying to work on an "in forest only" on that invisibility.
     
  10. Ordian

    Ordian Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2010
    Messages:
    8
    Just a quick heads up to everyone whom it may concern. There was a typo in the actions menu of modbuddy which caused one of the files to not be seen by the game. I have fixed it and released a v2 of the mod. Sorry for any hassle that this might have caused.
     
  11. Abremms

    Abremms Prince

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2010
    Messages:
    436
    I will load this up tonight after work and give it a go. should have some feed back in a day or two.
     
  12. Fencepost

    Fencepost Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2009
    Messages:
    15
    Location:
    Indianapolis, Indiana
    While this looks like an excellent mod, I have to disagree with keeping elephants out of forests and jungles. The only current civs to have elephant units are India and Siam; given these civs' real-life geographical locations, it's highly likely that the elephants are of the indicus subspecies, which, although they typically prefer more open areas like plains, are quite capable of moving through and even living in more heavily wooded areas.
     
  13. CYZ

    CYZ Toileteer

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2010
    Messages:
    1,376
    God yes!

    Really looking forward to trying this out. I wonder how this effects the AI though. Range increases should probably make them a bit better I hope...
     
  14. Abremms

    Abremms Prince

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2010
    Messages:
    436
    I've been trying to make a sniper unit that is a civilian like a great general and invisible, does a maximum of 1 damage, but decreases the combat strength of its target by 15% to represent a sniper taking out the command structure.

    I haven't been able to get it to work, but if someone else can i think it would be amazing.
     
  15. newt111

    newt111 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2010
    Messages:
    10
    I found a mistake, causing the catapult to have 2 range.

    <Where Type="UNITCLASS_CATAPULT"></Where>

    It should be <Where Type="UNIT_CATAPULT"></Where>
     
  16. SolkaTruesilver

    SolkaTruesilver Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2010
    Messages:
    88
    I really like what's announced. However, have you considered the impact this mod will have on the Aztec gameplay? With more hit points, the units are going to be much tougher to kill, meaning less cultural gain from their UA.

    I think you will need some balancing on that aspect.
     
  17. MisterBenn

    MisterBenn Warlord

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2006
    Messages:
    126
    It's also a little easier to get XP with all the hitpoints. I am enjoying the mod so far though, I've been in a Classical/Medieval war that is now reaching a stalemate and it's played out well with this mod.

    I saw that catapults and also the earliest boats have 2 attack range so I presumed that was per design. If it's intended to be that way I wander if city ranged attacks should be range 2 until trebuchets are researched as the war I had quite a "no man's land" between friendly and enemy cities.

    I suspect from what I've seen so far that these changes might help the AI a little. The extra hitpoints have lead to the AI successfully retreating and healing units on several times in my game - then coming back in waves a few turns later. It was more of a war of attrition rather than just a single wave that was wiped out, that change seems to help.

    I also think that the additional range for some artillery helps too as a fault of the tactical AI is getting ranged units too close and losing them. Protecting range 2 units on a front needs precise use of the zone of control, something which the AI doesn't really do yet. With range 3 and above, the AI will more often have a shot available and won't need to approach more. I'm just hitting trebuchets in my game and I'm optimisted as to how this will pan out...

    Edit: I just remembered, with 20XP I think you should make the natural heal rate away from friendly lands to be 2HP/t rather than one, it can take over 15 turns to heal from a couple of attacks. Please consider looking at Medic promotion effects in the same light.
     
  18. Abremms

    Abremms Prince

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2010
    Messages:
    436
    I haven't had much time to play around, but here's some preliminary feedback, I was using some other mods in addition to Art of War, most notably, Valkrion's Economy mod and Afforess' Active Defense as well as a few of my own little tweaks and changes.

    early war is brutal. capturing walled cities before trebs is a non-starter. you can do it, but its generally going to cost far far more than its worth. It takes long enough that as long as the AI has at least one city with decent production they can keep reinforcing and fighting. for me, this is a good thing. i always thought early wars were too easy. one suggestion though, cities without walls are still really hard to take. i would make the difference between a walled and un-walled city more pronounced.

    once you have proper siege equipment in trebs or cannons or frigates, it gets easier to take a city, as it should be.

    I don't like the modern units all having ranged attacks, though i can't put my finger on why. it plays alright, maybe its just because there is a pretty huge shift in play style once you get into the modern era, or it could be an issue with scale, (Ordian, consider getting together with the fellow making the Large Scale mod, i think your changes here would fit very well with what he is trying to do.) it may also just be a matter of personal preference.

    I'll be playing more over the weekend, i like the mod so i think I'll keep using it. keep up the good work!

    edit: one more thing i forgot to add, bcause units have 20hp, they a don't die as often, so you are more willing to take a "minor loss" to soften an enemy for another unit to kill. They also get a lot more promotions, so you will get more veteran units faster and they are easier to keep around. I spent a lot more time retreating highly promoted swordsmen than i did with the 10hp system, with 10hp you generally didn't have a chance since frontline units got chewed up bad. they still do, but they are far more likely to last their turn on the lines and then pull back to heal. with the 10hp system, the only units i ever bothered to worry about promotions with were ranged since they were the only units that generally survived long enough to get the good promotions.
     
  19. Slowpoke

    Slowpoke The Mad Modder

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2010
    Messages:
    1,321
    lol... we made almost exactly the same mod (see total war). Perhaps we should collaborate in our efforts for future mods?
     
  20. Lord Shadow

    Lord Shadow General

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2005
    Messages:
    2,001
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Buenos Aires
    Looks good on the whole, but I'm concerned about the clash between your "no ranged units can capture cities" concept and how you modded the Modern Era. Leaving Paratroopers as your only choice for city capture seems extremely awkward. Mechanized Infantry should totally be able to do that as well, though I realize that, code-wise, its new CombatClass may not allow it. If you modded things they way I think you did, at least.

    I'm skeptical about the Modern Age having pretty much only ranged units (with the exception of the Paratrooper) as well, but that's secondary to the city capture issue.
     

Share This Page