Asian Colonization (Pure Fantasy) Development thread

ok manchu replaces mongols
mughals replaces india
Siam represent mainland SE Asia
Indonesia represents the malay archipelago

Sorry progress is slow ,i need help w/art........you know where i can find a tea resource
anyways new terrain types :
Country Side(tea)
????(silk)
 
Never mind. Ends in 1300s...

I want Vijayanagara. 1336-1646. Much of South India.

Leaders? Nachana Soma??? (Poet)

Saluva Narasimha Deva Raya??? (Helped reconsolidate the empire)

Trait: Cultured
 
I haven't posted anything on this yet, but a mod like this looks too good to be true. I am a historical freak, which is why i love civilization colonization, so i want to add my two cents to this conversation.

Personally, I think the game should start around 1421, which is supposedly when Zheng He could have possibly discovered america. I know this game takes place in asia, but the fact that the chinese made it to america demonstrates that they had the capabilities to colonize in the pacific if they had the right incentive.

As to what civilizations should be included in this mod, i would want to see the ming dyanasty (china), Japan (as represented by Tokogawa and Nobunka as seperate leaders), the Vijayanagar (southern Indian nation at this time period: it reached into indochina and a little bit into indonesia), and finally the Portuguese.

these four nations had the most power in the period between 1421-1500 and 1500-1792, these four nations had the resources, manpower, technology, and inovative skills to colonize the east; unlike the others you guys had mentioned. The mongols never became a sea power (except invasion of Japan, failure) and by this time in history the mongols had reverted to their previous way of life: herding and being nomads. The mongols at this time are much more like the native amerians of the the new world. which brings me to my third point:

the mongols, tibet, kmer empire, indonesia, and northern indian states should be like the native americans in this colonization where they have single city borders, limited diplomacy, and no cohesive resistance against colonization. This leaves the islands of the pacific, indochina, and central asia and northern india up for colonization to all the major powers. (by the way, you could add enlish and french to the mix, although they didn't become serious players in this part of the world until the eighteenth centuries.)

And to better represent the asain countries i would like to pose an idea. to represent the overpopulation of the asian nations (specifically india and china) why not put a restriction on their industry? give them the ability to harvest twice as much raw recources ( like tobacco, cotton, and sugar) but make their industrial buildings like twice as much production points. this would represent how these powers could harvest alot of materials because of their large manpower, but penalize them for their lack of industry; this would almost balance the two off, but allow a small advantage to the european powers, particulary portugal. I would also add a benefit for the portuguese giving them extra traveling speed on their ships and extra attack to represent their far flung asian empire.

For game dynamics, instead of just destroying mongolian or indian cities like with the native americans in regular colonization, alow the player to choose to destroy it or keep it. Like how the portuguese held on to gao for centuries, while they also destroyed societies when they took over a few islands in the indonesia. Also, give the asian powers greater ability to make more units (half production value to build?) but make european units a few points stronger to represent the asian powers ability to wage a decent war in this period. I hope this wasn't too off from what you guys were thinking and i hope this helps in some way.
 
ok manchu replaces mongols
mughals replaces india
Great! In this way the Mongols are given double credit! I promise no further pressure in this topic.

Personally, I think the game should start around 1421, which is supposedly when Zheng He could have possibly discovered america. I know this game takes place in asia, but the fact that the chinese made it to america demonstrates that they had the capabilities to colonize in the pacific if they had the right incentive.
The year 1421 and the Chinese discovery of America is an idea of ONLY one guy - Gavin Menzies. No historian agrees with him (and it came rather easy to ridicule Menzies's 'proofs'). There is a long way from 'supposedly' to the'fact', so we can set the start year, arbitrarily, to any other as long as anyone comes up with some interesting idea, be it merely historical-fiction.
So, what do you suggest? Any important event in Asia that stimulates emmigration? Any disaster? Some important political changes? Maybe 1405 - the year of the first voyage by Zheng He and the death of Tamerlane?
 
Great! In this way the Mongols are given double credit! I promise no further pressure in this topic.


The year 1421 and the Chinese discovery of America is an idea of ONLY one guy - Gavin Menzies. No historian agrees with him (and it came rather easy to ridicule Menzies's 'proofs'). There is a long way from 'supposedly' to the'fact', so we can set the start year, arbitrarily, to any other as long as anyone comes up with some interesting idea, be it merely historical-fiction.
So, what do you suggest? Any important event in Asia that stimulates emmigration? Any disaster? Some important political changes? Maybe 1405 - the year of the first voyage by Zheng He and the death of Tamerlane?


I know that Menzies idea isn't necesarilly true, he bases most of his evidence of circumstantial evidence: like a single map he found in china and the fact that the ships were lage enough to cross the atlantic ocean. I was not trying to endorse his ideas as they do seem a bit perposterous, but i was just trying to underscore the fact that around this time period the major powers had accumulated enough power to begin to colonize the pacific and face off against the newly arrived europeans.

If i were to pick a single disaster that would cause this colonization i would most likely pick the death of Tamerlane in febuary 1405, as his death represents the collapse of cohesive mongol power in asia. The fact that this single asian empire, the mongolian empire, collapsed in 1368 but even tamerlane was still conquering in southwestern asia in 1370-1405 demonstrates the lasting influence of the mongols. One could speculate that at this point the other asian powers could begin to have a population explosian (recovery from mongol devastation in earlier wars) and as such they begin to expand into the remaining khanates of the mongol successors, india, and the pacific to meet this increase in population.


As to the mongols i would like to stress that by this point they were shadows of the mongolian empire and they were not cohesive enough to offer real resistance againt the other major asian powers, and they were definately not in a position to colonize. Most of the chagatai khanate fell to tamerlane in the 1360's, the ilkhanate was taken back by tamerlane but upon his death begins to disentagrate, while the Yuan dynasty falls in 1368 to the ming dynasty, and the empire of tamelane began to fall apart upon his death (although it did technically last until 1526 then it changed into the mughal empire). If any mongol power to were to be included in this mod then i would suggest that tje mughal empire were to include as they would fight over northern india with the Vijayanagar. The other mongolian powers should not be made into major players in the game as they could never compete with ming china, the Vijayanagar, Japan, and the portuguese (although the portuguese don't need to be i the mod as this mod is focused on the asian powers.). after this post i won't mention the mongols again. Sorry if i sound long winded.:lol::D
 
I was just saying that portugal was a major colonization power in the pacific between 1500-1650, so it is not unreasonable to conclude that they should be part of the mod, but I also stated that this was a suggestion and i wouldn't fight for the portuguese to be part of the mod as they are europeans; and if i am not mistaken you guys wanted a mod dealing soley with asians so i specifically mentioned the ming, japanese, Vijayanagar as potential civs.

The kmer empirea didn't have the tools and ships to heavily colonize even modern day indonesia so i wouldn't add them. Tibet was landlocked in between china and india, it was heavily influenced by both cultures and really was eventually colonized (which is why the Dali llama is angry with the chinese government today (sorry if mispellled)). As such it deserves no place as a colonization civ.

The mughals on the other hand had potential, i will grant you that. I would be hesitant to add them though as they did not appear as a real power to deal with until the mid sixteenth century, which would appear out of place if they game started in the fifteenth century. Otherwise, if you started the game at 1500CE then it could be okay. They also never tried to colonize the pacific, but if you make northern india a place to be colonized then the mughals could be okay.

As to the asians colonizing america that could be possible with the ming but i don't think that the japanese or the indian civs had the ship building capabilities to do that; unless they went across the beiring straight where the water is easier to navigate.... But if you want the chinese to colonize, say california or mexico, then i would completely support the idea. Although, would you add the europeans to the game as the western hemisphere has traditionally been their personal playground since 1492?
 
sorry man, i did completely misunderstand you......but i do agree with you now on everything else.

By the way, how would you make korea a colonizing power. I only ask because of it's small size and because it's right next to China. At least Japan is on an island, even if it is small, but korea could face some serious wars with china being right next door. If korea is to be included as a colonizing civ I would at least give them serious defensive bonuses plus favorable defensive terrain.
 
let's tackle this slowly , this mod is meant to let asians colonize america , why let khmer or tibet be natives
^younflancy-some elements are included of your china are included in the mod , but how did you make china at the west?

BTW , can someone provide info on how you want the col leaders look like , and if possible help me with some matters such as the terrain.This should reach Ekmek or Geomodder , I can't do the art alone
 
let's tackle this slowly , this mod is meant to let asians colonize america , why let khmer or tibet be natives
^younflancy-some elements are included of your china are included in the mod , but how did you make china at the west?

BTW , can someone provide info on how you want the col leaders look like , and if possible help me with some matters such as the terrain.This should reach Ekmek or Geomodder , I can't do the art alone

No problem.
Actually I just changed the A_New_World map script, to make china start from the west side.
I am trying to change the game core to do something, like the starting locations, and Confucianism religion instead of Chritianity.
 
let's tackle this slowly , this mod is meant to let asians colonize america , why let khmer or tibet be natives
^younflancy-some elements are included of your china are included in the mod , but how did you make china at the west?

BTW , can someone provide info on how you want the col leaders look like , and if possible help me with some matters such as the terrain.This should reach Ekmek or Geomodder , I can't do the art alone


Masamune Date of Japan (If you choose him as one of the colonizationists) should be based off his younger appearances and he is portraited to be in many games, however most of the games he appears in makes him appear basically as the bishounen teenager with one eye. (Which, is not neccisarily a bad thing.)

But if he is to colonize the New Americas for Japan, why not base him off a similar model.

As for Ieyasu Tokugawa as the Emperor of Japan, You should use the same model they used for Civ IV, but make him more.. Regal in appearance. By now he should either have aged slightly progressively, or like Wilhem von Oranje in Civ IV colonization , should look differently, perhaps armor would fit him, giving him that look of a tyrant warlord.
 
Sorry Kao'chai, you never mentioned where you wanted the game map to be placed. as you mentioned an asian colonization mod i assumed you meant a mod dealing with what if the asians colonized the pacific and oceana......

But this idea is also awsome, For some suggestions: keep with your original idea of civilizations but add a twist. to simulate the the longer trip across the pacific than the atlantic, make the asian ships move an eighth slower than european ships, and have them stay in their respective mothercountries for three turns rather than the two turns for europeans.

To simulate how the chinese "supposedly" got to america first almost a hundred years before everyone else, give them two pioneers and one military unit. That way when they start they can have more tiles improved or more cities than their european counterparts at the start of the game, but this shouldn't matter too much because of the slower travel time back to Penking.

For units, i would suggest giving chinese ships more room to store units and resources to represent the chinese treasure fleet with ships as big as palaces. give the japanese special privateers with increased pirating dues, as the japanese at this time were renown pirates around korea and china. Also, to simulate the indian's extensive use of mercenaries in their army, allow their colonies to purchase military units from the home country at two thirds the price of the europeans.

I hope this is what you were looking for........
 
I am trying to change the game core to do something, like the starting locations, and Confucianism religion instead of Chritianity.
Are you sure about Confucianism? Buddhism seems to be a much more universal choice, not limited to one culture only (what's more, in Chinese culture Confucianism is NOT perceived as a religion but rather a philosophical system - Confucius was a teacher/scholar, not a prophet).
 
in Chinese culture Confucianism is NOT perceived as a religion but rather a philosophical system

The same could be said about Buddhism, in fact. And Confucianism was pretty prevalent among the elite classes in China, sort of like Mithraism was in the late Roman Empire. While Confucianism isn't an ideal choice, it serves the fuction best, IMO.
 
Isn't ChoKonu still the weapons of mass destruction by that time.and shouldn't india have fast workers
anyways :
Korea:
Rocket Carts&Turtle Ship
Siam
Ballista&somekind of jungle warrior
Indonesia
Bolomen and Vinta from my philippine civ?

BTW , thank you everybody for your full support !!!!!!!!
 
Back
Top Bottom