Asian Colonization (Pure Fantasy) Development thread

Mongolians HATE Sea. Kublai Khan proved that.

The mongols tried to defeat and concur japan by sea TWO times as far as i know, and there might be more. Both times the Japanese were saved by storms out on the ocean.
So i totally agree, no mongols, And with you too Lubricus no tibet!!!

Here are the civs i want to see:
- Japan
- Ming(China)
- Korea
- Manchu
- Dai Viet
- Mughals (India) (I'm not sure about this. Gotta do some more research)...
 
Here are the civs i want to see:
- Japan
- Ming(China)
- Korea
- Khmer
- Manchu
- Dai Viet
- Mughals (India) (I'm not sure about this. Gotta do some more research)...

Yeah, the Mughals might be good. They appeared a bit late (early 1500s, I seem to recall), but lasted throughout the colony era. So for India, I guess it is a toss-up between Mughals and Vijayanagar.
 
Then the Mughals is secured.

Also of their special units could be Light Elephant, who could replace Seasoned Scout, which could move 2 square's per turn and have a defending bonus depending on the territory they are in (forest, pineforest,hills etc.).

Hvordan er det man skriver firkant på engelsk igjen Lubricus?



Edit: Changed a word (Thank's to Lubricus great translate abilities).
Edit2: I changed the wrong word, so i had to edit again to chenge back the first and cheange a new word to squere instead.
 
Takk for hjelpa du...:D
 
ok manchu replaces mongols
mughals replaces india
Siam represent mainland SE Asia
Indonesia represents the malay archipelago

Sorry progress is slow ,i need help w/art........you know where i can find a tea resource
anyways new terrain types :
Country Side(tea)
????(silk)
 
Never mind. Ends in 1300s...

I want Vijayanagara. 1336-1646. Much of South India.

Leaders? Nachana Soma??? (Poet)

Saluva Narasimha Deva Raya??? (Helped reconsolidate the empire)

Trait: Cultured
 
I haven't posted anything on this yet, but a mod like this looks too good to be true. I am a historical freak, which is why i love civilization colonization, so i want to add my two cents to this conversation.

Personally, I think the game should start around 1421, which is supposedly when Zheng He could have possibly discovered america. I know this game takes place in asia, but the fact that the chinese made it to america demonstrates that they had the capabilities to colonize in the pacific if they had the right incentive.

As to what civilizations should be included in this mod, i would want to see the ming dyanasty (china), Japan (as represented by Tokogawa and Nobunka as seperate leaders), the Vijayanagar (southern Indian nation at this time period: it reached into indochina and a little bit into indonesia), and finally the Portuguese.

these four nations had the most power in the period between 1421-1500 and 1500-1792, these four nations had the resources, manpower, technology, and inovative skills to colonize the east; unlike the others you guys had mentioned. The mongols never became a sea power (except invasion of Japan, failure) and by this time in history the mongols had reverted to their previous way of life: herding and being nomads. The mongols at this time are much more like the native amerians of the the new world. which brings me to my third point:

the mongols, tibet, kmer empire, indonesia, and northern indian states should be like the native americans in this colonization where they have single city borders, limited diplomacy, and no cohesive resistance against colonization. This leaves the islands of the pacific, indochina, and central asia and northern india up for colonization to all the major powers. (by the way, you could add enlish and french to the mix, although they didn't become serious players in this part of the world until the eighteenth centuries.)

And to better represent the asain countries i would like to pose an idea. to represent the overpopulation of the asian nations (specifically india and china) why not put a restriction on their industry? give them the ability to harvest twice as much raw recources ( like tobacco, cotton, and sugar) but make their industrial buildings like twice as much production points. this would represent how these powers could harvest alot of materials because of their large manpower, but penalize them for their lack of industry; this would almost balance the two off, but allow a small advantage to the european powers, particulary portugal. I would also add a benefit for the portuguese giving them extra traveling speed on their ships and extra attack to represent their far flung asian empire.

For game dynamics, instead of just destroying mongolian or indian cities like with the native americans in regular colonization, alow the player to choose to destroy it or keep it. Like how the portuguese held on to gao for centuries, while they also destroyed societies when they took over a few islands in the indonesia. Also, give the asian powers greater ability to make more units (half production value to build?) but make european units a few points stronger to represent the asian powers ability to wage a decent war in this period. I hope this wasn't too off from what you guys were thinking and i hope this helps in some way.
 
ok manchu replaces mongols
mughals replaces india
Great! In this way the Mongols are given double credit! I promise no further pressure in this topic.

Personally, I think the game should start around 1421, which is supposedly when Zheng He could have possibly discovered america. I know this game takes place in asia, but the fact that the chinese made it to america demonstrates that they had the capabilities to colonize in the pacific if they had the right incentive.
The year 1421 and the Chinese discovery of America is an idea of ONLY one guy - Gavin Menzies. No historian agrees with him (and it came rather easy to ridicule Menzies's 'proofs'). There is a long way from 'supposedly' to the'fact', so we can set the start year, arbitrarily, to any other as long as anyone comes up with some interesting idea, be it merely historical-fiction.
So, what do you suggest? Any important event in Asia that stimulates emmigration? Any disaster? Some important political changes? Maybe 1405 - the year of the first voyage by Zheng He and the death of Tamerlane?
 
Great! In this way the Mongols are given double credit! I promise no further pressure in this topic.


The year 1421 and the Chinese discovery of America is an idea of ONLY one guy - Gavin Menzies. No historian agrees with him (and it came rather easy to ridicule Menzies's 'proofs'). There is a long way from 'supposedly' to the'fact', so we can set the start year, arbitrarily, to any other as long as anyone comes up with some interesting idea, be it merely historical-fiction.
So, what do you suggest? Any important event in Asia that stimulates emmigration? Any disaster? Some important political changes? Maybe 1405 - the year of the first voyage by Zheng He and the death of Tamerlane?


I know that Menzies idea isn't necesarilly true, he bases most of his evidence of circumstantial evidence: like a single map he found in china and the fact that the ships were lage enough to cross the atlantic ocean. I was not trying to endorse his ideas as they do seem a bit perposterous, but i was just trying to underscore the fact that around this time period the major powers had accumulated enough power to begin to colonize the pacific and face off against the newly arrived europeans.

If i were to pick a single disaster that would cause this colonization i would most likely pick the death of Tamerlane in febuary 1405, as his death represents the collapse of cohesive mongol power in asia. The fact that this single asian empire, the mongolian empire, collapsed in 1368 but even tamerlane was still conquering in southwestern asia in 1370-1405 demonstrates the lasting influence of the mongols. One could speculate that at this point the other asian powers could begin to have a population explosian (recovery from mongol devastation in earlier wars) and as such they begin to expand into the remaining khanates of the mongol successors, india, and the pacific to meet this increase in population.


As to the mongols i would like to stress that by this point they were shadows of the mongolian empire and they were not cohesive enough to offer real resistance againt the other major asian powers, and they were definately not in a position to colonize. Most of the chagatai khanate fell to tamerlane in the 1360's, the ilkhanate was taken back by tamerlane but upon his death begins to disentagrate, while the Yuan dynasty falls in 1368 to the ming dynasty, and the empire of tamelane began to fall apart upon his death (although it did technically last until 1526 then it changed into the mughal empire). If any mongol power to were to be included in this mod then i would suggest that tje mughal empire were to include as they would fight over northern india with the Vijayanagar. The other mongolian powers should not be made into major players in the game as they could never compete with ming china, the Vijayanagar, Japan, and the portuguese (although the portuguese don't need to be i the mod as this mod is focused on the asian powers.). after this post i won't mention the mongols again. Sorry if i sound long winded.:lol::D
 
Why should portugal be a colonization power in asia. They are european, and we want the asian civs, not spain and france and so on. I do not understand why you want use the Mughals, as they had a great empire. Instead we could use the Mongols, Tibet, the civ who built the Angor Wat(i never remember their name), Aborgines etc. as Natives. The mughals were sure one of the countries who had the power to colonize. So here are the civs i prefer:
- Mughals (north-india)
- Ming (china)
- Japan
- Vijayanagar (south-india)
- Korea (they had china in it's back, and because of that, they had the power to colonize)

But there could be an idea to let all of these civs colonize america, the asians from west, the europeans from east....


Edit: Wrong spelling
 
I was just saying that portugal was a major colonization power in the pacific between 1500-1650, so it is not unreasonable to conclude that they should be part of the mod, but I also stated that this was a suggestion and i wouldn't fight for the portuguese to be part of the mod as they are europeans; and if i am not mistaken you guys wanted a mod dealing soley with asians so i specifically mentioned the ming, japanese, Vijayanagar as potential civs.

The kmer empirea didn't have the tools and ships to heavily colonize even modern day indonesia so i wouldn't add them. Tibet was landlocked in between china and india, it was heavily influenced by both cultures and really was eventually colonized (which is why the Dali llama is angry with the chinese government today (sorry if mispellled)). As such it deserves no place as a colonization civ.

The mughals on the other hand had potential, i will grant you that. I would be hesitant to add them though as they did not appear as a real power to deal with until the mid sixteenth century, which would appear out of place if they game started in the fifteenth century. Otherwise, if you started the game at 1500CE then it could be okay. They also never tried to colonize the pacific, but if you make northern india a place to be colonized then the mughals could be okay.

As to the asians colonizing america that could be possible with the ming but i don't think that the japanese or the indian civs had the ship building capabilities to do that; unless they went across the beiring straight where the water is easier to navigate.... But if you want the chinese to colonize, say california or mexico, then i would completely support the idea. Although, would you add the europeans to the game as the western hemisphere has traditionally been their personal playground since 1492?
 
I was just saying that portugal was a major colonization power in the pacific between 1500-1650, so it is not unreasonable to conclude that they should be part of the mod, but I also stated that this was a suggestion and i wouldn't fight for the portuguese to be part of the mod as they are europeans; and if i am not mistaken you guys wanted a mod dealing soley with asians so i specifically mentioned the ming, japanese, Vijayanagar as potential civs.

The kmer empirea didn't have the tools and ships to heavily colonize even modern day indonesia so i wouldn't add them. Tibet was landlocked in between china and india, it was heavily influenced by both cultures and really was eventually colonized (which is why the Dali llama is angry with the chinese government today (sorry if mispellled)). As such it deserves no place as a colonization civ.

The mughals on the other hand had potential, i will grant you that. I would be hesitant to add them though as they did not appear as a real power to deal with until the mid sixteenth century, which would appear out of place if they game started in the fifteenth century. Otherwise, if you started the game at 1500CE then it could be okay. They also never tried to colonize the pacific, but if you make northern india a place to be colonized then the mughals could be okay.

As to the asians colonizing america that could be possible with the ming but i don't think that the japanese or the indian civs had the ship building capabilities to do that; unless they went across the beiring straight where the water is easier to navigate.... But if you want the chinese to colonize, say california or mexico, then i would completely support the idea. Although, would you add the europeans to the game as the western hemisphere has traditionally been their personal playground since 1492?


I meant that Tibet, Khmer, Mongols and the Aborgines should be NATIVES not civs. You did a compleate misunderstanding there. :mad:

But well, i still think that these civs shall be Colonizepowers:king::
- Mughals (north-india)
- Ming (china)
- Japan
- Vijayanagar (south-india)
- Korea (they had china in it's back, and because of that, they had the power to colonize)

These are some alternate NATIVES:
- Khmer (I guessn it's the civ who built the angkor wat)
- Tibet
- Aborgines
- Mongols
- Mansjurians
etc.

I hope you understand what i mean now:rolleyes:
 
sorry man, i did completely misunderstand you......but i do agree with you now on everything else.

By the way, how would you make korea a colonizing power. I only ask because of it's small size and because it's right next to China. At least Japan is on an island, even if it is small, but korea could face some serious wars with china being right next door. If korea is to be included as a colonizing civ I would at least give them serious defensive bonuses plus favorable defensive terrain.
 
Yes, i think you're right there. Give the Koreans a great defensive bonus. Maybe the koreans could start with the Protective trait from CivIV. By the way, the reason i think korea could fit is that it had great favor from china at the time, because the king who repleaced the Wang Kong dynasti was either taoistic or confucian.:)
You know, with some help from china they could do almost everything...:mischief:

Anyway, sorry if it looked like i was some kind of mad....:(
Hope you can forgive me for that buddy:please:
 
Top Bottom