Ask a Building Trades Professional

[ReindeerThistle]

@Warpus; Re: the floor: Doing the floor in drier climate means that when the more humid weather comes around, it expands around your perimeter.

Putting a floor in when it's humid means that you will likely develop gaps in the boards.

As for where the saw goes: my on-site practice is to use a garage or driveway for easier clean-up.

 

[warpus]

The thing is that the garage is going to have a car in it and the driveway or anywhere else outside during the winter is right out.

The saw would pretty much have to go.. .. I guess in the room where I'm installing the floor. I can't think of any other part of the house that isn't being used in some way. That's why I asked initially, because it seems like it'd just get in the way.

 

[Cutlass]

What kind of a saw are you talking about? It doesn't have to remain set up in the times between when you are working on your project. So you could set it up in the garage, then take it down and park your car.

I'd paint the walls and ceilings with a primer like Kilz and then surface paint. Old stains have a way of working their way through new paints. The primer should prevent that.

As to the other, if you want the shelves on each side of the window, can you modify one to make room for the vent? What is the vent like?

Next part, here is a pic of where I lived in the past.

Note that behind the desk against the wall was a couple of bookshelves. What this arangement did was allowed me to put the comp itself, and a bunch of the associated equipment, off behind the desk itself, rather than on or under. This cleared me a much larger work surface area. I could pull the monitor as close as I wanted, or push it back. Also, the TV is next to the monitor, and can be hooked to the comp, and can be watched from the desk, or turned a bit and watched from the couch behind the desk. The TV stand/table next to the desk gives you room to push the TV around however you want it for the moment.

On to the closet: I hear what you're saying about not being too comfortable with woodwork. But we're looking at what is actually a pretty easy project here. So I would go with built ins. So what is the depth of your closet? In the shelving section of Home Depot or Lowes or other home construction stores you ought to be able to find boards which have a white laminated covering already installed. So it's like white laminated Ikea. If you can find some of them which is about as deep as your closet is, then you're in great shape. If it's a little too large, then you need a table saw, or go smaller. If it's a little too small, then you just go with what you can get. You measure the inside of your closet wall to wall, and cut the length to fill it. To hold these up, you go to the lumber section and get some pine boards as wide as the shelves. Cut 3 pieces to equal length, making sure to get straight cuts, put one against the left wall of your closet, one against the right, place your shelf on top of them, and then place the 3rd one in the center for support. Repeat as necessary all the way to the top.

 

[warpus]

What kind of a saw are you talking about? It doesn't have to remain set up in the times between when you are working on your project. So you could set it up in the garage, then take it down and park your car.

It's a circular table saw... I usually put it on top of an old IKEA table. It's not large but it isn't small either. Setting it up in the office would be a bit annoying, partially because the office isn't that large.. Plus all the wood chips would end up on the ground, so cleanup would suck. And now that I think about it, all the wood chips are gonna fly where the panel is being installed.. so I'd have to vacuum it each end every time. That sounds super annoying.. :/

Garage won't work, my roommate's car is going to be there. I suppose I can ask if he'd want to leave it outside, but with all these problems, it would just be easier to do the floor in the spring.

So I might have to wait until may, or whenever.. I was under the impression that most people here in Canada do their flooring installation NOT in the winter (probably for the reasons I cite). But I could be 100% wrong about that.

As to the other, if you want the shelves on each side of the window, can you modify one to make room for the vent? What is the vent like?

Technically I could. The vent is facing upwards, it's a part of the floor. I'd have to make a hole in the lower part of the bookshelf.. It would work, but the airflow wouldn't be optimal, and the hole in the bookshelf would really stand out. I think. I'm not 100% about the airflow, maybe it could be alright, but I have no idea about making it look good.

On to the closet: I hear what you're saying about not being too comfortable with woodwork. But we're looking at what is actually a pretty easy project here. So I would go with built ins. So what is the depth of your closet? In the shelving section of Home Depot or Lowes or other home construction stores you ought to be able to find boards which have a white laminated covering already installed. So it's like white laminated Ikea. If you can find some of them which is about as deep as your closet is, then you're in great shape. If it's a little too large, then you need a table saw, or go smaller. If it's a little too small, then you just go with what you can get. You measure the inside of your closet wall to wall, and cut the length to fill it. To hold these up, you go to the lumber section and get some pine boards as wide as the shelves. Cut 3 pieces to equal length, making sure to get straight cuts, put one against the left wall of your closet, one against the right, place your shelf on top of them, and then place the 3rd one in the center for support. Repeat as necessary all the way to the top.

Yeah, more and more people are telling me to just do this myself. So I might attempt it.

One problem is that 1/2 of the storage would have to be removable. I realized that the only way to access the attic is through this closet. So that kind of sucks..

I've only ever been up there once, to see why my ceiling was leaking. Other than that there's nothing up there, but I would need the storage system to be partially removable, so that I can access the attic during emergencies. What sort of emergencies I'm not sure, but I have a feeling this limitation is going to make things even more complicated..

 

[GinandTonic]

Making the top part of the storage removable is very easy. Simply don't screw down the upper shelves. With stuff on the shelves they will stay in place just fine. Ive not screwed down loads of bookshelves and it's just not a problem.

The white laminated boards are called ContiBoard. It's chipboard covered in melamine.

One important thing to check before you decide what to do is if the walls of the closet are solid or wallboard/ gyprock. Do you have something solid to screw into?

 

[warpus]

One important thing to check before you decide what to do is if the walls of the closet are solid or wallboard/ gyprock. Do you have something solid to screw into?

I have a stud finder which I can use to figure this out. I was going to, but then I forgot all about this thread..

But for now these plans are sort of on hold. This weekend I am replacing all the steps on the deck instead.. that project requires it to be nice out, and somebody said they would help me if we do it this weekend.. so we're doing it.

We have everything specced out, I'm going to need fifteen 2 inch x 6 inch x 10 foot boards, which are not actually going to be 6 inches across wink wink nudge nudge. (I measured the things and they are actually 5 and a half)

12 of these boards are going to be cut in exact pieces of 3, each one of those smaller pieces forming a half of each step. Each step is thus going to be made up of two 2 inch x 6 inch x 40 inch boards. The reason there are two is because there are just four brackets there dammit, so instead of having 1 large 2 inch x 12 inch x 40 inch board there are two smaller ones. My guess they did it like that because that sort of lumber is a lot cheaper (and mind you I can't even find 12 inch wide lumber or anything similar).. And I don't think I should buy new brackets.. My plan is to work with what's there. Is that a bad idea? I have no idea what shape they're in, but they don't seem to be that bad.

It should be pretty easy, I'm just researching what sort of wood to get. I have already figured out that the technical term for wood you use to build decks out of is lumber.

It also seems that a 2x6x120 inch board is going to cost $10 or so.. canadian. Is that about right? Or is that a crappy deal? I have been looking at pressure treated lumber.

Tomorrow I'm calling a bunch of places to ask what exactly they have, and to write down more prices.. so that I can pick out the cheapest place and thursday or friday go buy all the steps and on saturday nail them into place. That is assuming they can pre-cut the boards for me into steps, which I think they can.

Are there any flaws in my plan? recommendations, etc?

(The office project might very well still happen sometime before there's snow, but we'll see what happens)

edit: the 3 extra boards that don't get cut are to replace rotting boards on one of the decks.

 

[Cutlass]

2 2x6s (actual dimensions 1.5 inches by 5.5 inches) next to each other, total 11 inches, plus whatever space you have between them. Definitely use pressure treated for outdoor steps. personally, I'd use a 2x12 (actual dimensions 1.5 inches by 11.5 inches). But if you think you have to change the mounting more than you are comfortable with, you can do the 2x6s. The reason I'd use the bigger board is because there'd be less give to the steps as you put your weight on them. You don't want steps that sag under your weight. And with steps, most of your weight will always be falling on the outer one. Call lumber yards for the bigger board. Is there a Home Depot in your area? They should have it.

Take a pic and we may be able to suggest a different way to do it.

I also prefer to screw decking into place rather than nailing. They don't come loose that way. Personal preference.

 

[warpus]

2 2x6s (actual dimensions 1.5 inches by 5.5 inches) next to each other, total 11 inches, plus whatever space you have between them. Definitely use pressure treated for outdoor steps. personally, I'd use a 2x12 (actual dimensions 1.5 inches by 11.5 inches). But if you think you have to change the mounting more than you are comfortable with, you can do the 2x6s. The reason I'd use the bigger board is because there'd be less give to the steps as you put your weight on them. You don't want steps that sag under your weight. And with steps, most of your weight will always be falling on the outer one. Call lumber yards for the bigger board. Is there a Home Depot in your area? They should have it.

Take a pic and we may be able to suggest a different way to do it.

I also prefer to screw decking into place rather than nailing. They don't come loose that way. Personal preference.

I would LOVE to have just one board per step as opposed to 2. I think it should work with the brackets... but I have no idea actually. I guess I'm going to have to look at the brackets a bit closer. It's been pretty horrible out there lately, but I'm going to try to take a pic tomorrow. Hopefully it doesn't rain!

There's a RONA near by, a Home Depot, a Copps buildall, a Lowes, and.. I think a couple other places. Maybe some smaller independent type places? I'm not really sure what else is out there, but I was going to call those 3 or 4 places that I've listed to see what they have and how much it costs.

My roommate said screws would be better too I think, but the brackets seem to be made for nails.

 

[Cutlass]

I'd have to see those brackets. Here most of the time deck stairs are made with stringers rather than any form of brackets. So you can attach any kind of board on top.

 

[warpus]

I was wrong, we're going with screws, for the stairs at least. Here are the pictures of the brackets I just took:

I also noticed today that the boards on the stairs are 1 1/2 inch thick, while the ones directly on the deck are just under 1 inch thick.

So my question is.. .. .. what is that? 5 and a half inch is 6 inches.. Am I looking for "2 inch" thick boards for the stairs? Or do I stick to the exact specifications and tell them I need 1 1/2 inch thick boards?

edit: I re-read your post, it seems that you already answered my question. 2 inches it is!

The boards on the deck itself are exactly 1 inch though. Are those "1 inch" boards? or 1 1/2? I can't get used to this "things aren't actually called what they actually are" business.

 

[Cutlass]

OK, point #1: They did that wrong. Seriously.

Well. I suppose it might actually be strong enough. But that is really, really, not the proper way to hang steps.

Back to that in a minute. As to your question about the board sizes. This is in part a historical accident, and in part a cost saving measure. Back in the day, a 2x4 (6,8,10,12, whatever) was in fact that dimension. But they were rough cut. That is, cut with a course saw, and not smoothed down. Then they came up with what they called planed dimensional lumber. That is, you start with a 2x4, and you run it through a machine called a planer and it came out fairly smooth. But it came out with a dimensions of 1.5 inches by 3.5 inches. Later on, they switched to smoother saws, and just cut the boards to 1.5x3.5. But they retained the names of 2x4. That is, you're converting from metric, so it seems screwy to you. But to Americans, when buying a 2x4, we know we are getting 1.5x3.5. That's just the way the wood is cut. They do it because they get more boards out of each tree.

So if you ask for a 2x4, you will get a 1.5x3.5. If you ask for a 2x12, you will get a 1.5x11.5. This holds true for all dimensional or framing lumber on the US, and probably Canadian, market. That includes pressure treated lumber.

Now, clearly I have not confused you enough. So just to make things interesting, plywood is different. And plywood is labeled as exactly the dimensions that the wood actually is. That is, it is mostly sold as 4x8 sheets, and that is pretty close to exactly on 4 feet by 8 feet dimensions. And the thickness of the sheets will be extremely close to the labeled thickness as well. The other major exceptions you'll find is finish grade lumber, which they are now selling as exactly the labeled dimensions as well. Also molding carved lumber tends to be exact dimensions as well.

Tradition, were would we be without it?

Now, back to our regularly scheduled program. The decking boards that you measured at 1 inch are actually called 5/4. That is, 5 quarters. (The logic is the same as above. Just go with it. Thinking about it any further will just give you a headache.) It's a commonly used size for the flooring on a deck. It's normally sold with a somewhat better grade of surface smoothness than 2x lumber. It makes for better appearance for flooring. But I wouldn't use it for a step. Just to finish out your education here, dimensional or PT boards that are called 1x, that is 1x3, 1x6, ect, are actually .75x2.5, .75x5.5, ect.

So the boards you want to ask for are either 2x6s or 2x12s, and they will be 1.5inches thick.

Now, to the brackets, well I suppose you can make a case for them being good enough. Take out the screws that go to the step boards, and you can reuse them.

 

[Cutlass]

 

[warpus]

Thanks for the details, I have been calling around to see how much this stuff is going to cost me.

RONA says I can get a 2x6x12 foot board for $9.99
or a 2x12x12 foot board for $39.99

No wonder each step is made out of 2 boards as opposed to 1 large 12 inch wide one! (err 11.5 inch wide ) .. it's 50% cheaper! It would look nicer though.. hmmm

What exactly do you mean that they didn't do the brackets properly? Is this sort of way of doing things not going to be stable? Or is it just that the screws are all in sideways and everything is half-arsed? I put that down to fine Canadian contractmanship.

I'm calling around some more. Maybe somebody else will have a better deal.

 

[Cutlass]

That's a corner bracket. This is a stair stringer. People really usually use the latter rather than the former when putting in stairs. The stair then rests on top of the thing holding it, rather than just having a few screws holding it up.

Though, before you panic, watch this vid.


Link to video.

Note that that guy is using brackets, but he is both using heavier brackets, and he is attaching them to the side boards with lag bolts rather than a few screws.


btw, spend the extra money for the 2x12. In the long run you'll be glad you did.

 

[Old Hippy]

What exactly do you mean that they didn't do the brackets properly? Is this sort of way of doing things not going to be stable? Or is it just that the screws are all in sideways and everything is half-arsed? I put that down to fine Canadian contractmanship.

.

and just to confuse you more... because you are working to an existing structure and the stringers are already fixed in place

sometimes it pays to fix the brackets to the treads first and screw the treads in place as your drill/driver can be held horizontal, and you can work from the front resting on the previous step, fixing the treads to the brackets already in place means that you have to get under them and work from behind, also the bottom tread will be quite low to the ground. it can also pay to pre drill after marking there postion with a smaller diameter drill bit than the screw, if its fiddlly you can bang in a nail half way to hold the tread in place while you screw in the screws, then pull it out for the last screw

 

[warpus]

@Cutlass

Wow, so that's not even a proper stair bracket?? It's a makeshift piece of !$&!$ that's designed for something completely different?

NO WONDER the stairs have been wobbly. Maybe they've been wobbly from the beginning. Do you think getting the 12 inch wide instead of the 6 inch wide boards will fix that? It seems like it probably will, but it also seems that some of them might not align 100%. So there's pros and cons. Would you agree?

Should I see what they recommend at RONA for brackets for this sort of job? I'm not against redoing all that.. Too bad there's no easy way to install a strainer.

and just to confuse you more...

sometimes it pays to fix the brackets to the treads first and screw the treads in place as your drill/driver can be held horizontal, and you can work from the front resting on the previous step, fixing the treads to the brackets already in place means that you have to get under them and work from behind, also the bottom tread will be quite low to the ground. it can also pay to pre drill after marking there postion with a smaller diameter drill bit than the screw, if its fiddlly you can bang in a nail half way to hold the tread in place while you screw in the screws, then pull it out for the last screw

So basically the lowest stairs are going to be a pain in the butt.. especially the ones at the very bottom.

I hadn't even thought of that. (I bet/hope my roommate's dad has though.. )

 

[Old Hippy]

So basically the lowest stairs are going to be a pain in the butt.. especially the ones at the very bottom.

I hadn't even thought of that. (I bet/hope my roommate's dad has though.. )

yes a pain in the butt, say 6'' for the first step and you have a 9'' drill/driver which is why I prefer to use the space between steps to fix to the riser, working from the front, and being lazy, each step provides a resting place to work off of.

of course you have to unscrew the existing rather rusty screws to start with, another pain, but you will end up with a Canadian craftsmens finish you will be proud to show photos of.

 

[warpus]

I can't really picture any of that in any sort of meaningful way. I really hope my roommate's dad has all of this planned out. He probably does, he's supposed to have a lot of experience with DIY type stuff. But I can't rely 100% on that either.

 

[Old Hippy]

I can't really picture any of that in any sort of meaningful way. I really hope my roommate's dad has all of this planned out. He probably does, he's supposed to have a lot of experience with DIY type stuff. But I can't rely 100% on that either.

its hard to explain without waving my hands about... which I am doing while typing.

but picture your new treads and the existing brackets, you have to get under them and screw up, now think of your new treads with brackets attacthed already, you have to screw sideways and you can do this from the space between the steps from the front

 

[warpus]

its hard to explain without waving my hands about..

but picture your new treads and the existing brackets, you have to get under them and screw up, now think of your new treads with brackets attacthed already, you have to screw sideways and you can do this from the space between the steps from the front

Okay, we're on the same page, that's exactly what I'm picturing.

It occurs to me that if you attach the brackets to the step boards first, instead of to the deck.. that it doesn't really matter if stuff isn't aligned. We'll just put a level on the board before we screw it in and align it then.

Is it going to be easy to hold the board level while everything is screwed into place? Not when the brackets are attached to the board, that part seems easy, but when the board is attached to the deck?