Ask a Muslim

[Mott1]

I said earlier that Islam allows retribution but also says it is always preferable to turn the other cheek. I believe those who rush to the former are, at best, misguided

Hi incantrix.
Thanks for your reply however I am not sure if I follow you here. You believe that God prefers for his creation (man) to forgive and forget, however He does permit retribution, meaning justly harming someone in retaliation for something harmful that they have done or basically taking revenge to correct a wrongdoing. I assume by this you mean that jihadists are sincere in conviction and in faith but are misguided because they pursue the latter method first. Most people here will disagree with you because as I said most believe that the jihadists are not true in their faith and are employing the teachings of Muhammad as a tool to pursue a secular political agenda, meaning they are not sincere Muslims. Now if God only prefers the benign method of forgive and forget but also permits retribution, then are the jihadists truly misguided? When do you believe, is retribution permitted?

I understand this is only your perspective of Islam and you do not speak for all Muslims, however it seems to me that you, like many Muslims especially in the west, have applied reason to faith. You have escalated the common values that most people cherish, such as freedom and tolerance, above the teachings of Muhammad which is greatly commendable. What I also find commendable is for you to take time out of your schedule to answer our questions, improving relations by sharing knowledge in open dialogue is always good thing. Despite the disingenuous diatribes of certain indiviuals here, no regular member on this board dislikes or feels harshly toward people simply because they are Muslim. There are those of us who criticize and oppose Islam, however this does not reflect on Muslims. This open criticism is seen as "hatemongering" which I am sure you will agree is a reactionary response of ignorance, no idea or belief is beyond criticism and that includes all religious and secular ideologies. That being said I have one more question if you don't mind: from what you know of Muhammd and his lifestyle, do you have any doubts that Muhammad, by virtue of his conduct is qualified to be a prophet of a benign God? and why?

 

[Katheryn]

Originally Posted by Homie
So basically: If Mohammed did it, can you blame those who follow his example?

Alot less violentlly than Christianity, in Muslim countries, he fought more than a few wars, but he was actually a great diplomat who sought to absorb rather than kill. Same can't be said for Christianity, of course after his death , Muslims kind of went off on an a few more jaunts than maybe they should. But Mohammeds wars although bloody were remarkablly less bloody than ours(Christianity) To achieve the same ends. And considering his faith basically was built on conversion, it's actually more than a little remarkable.
__________________

See, again we have a jump here in the logic.

Someone says, If Mohammed used violence to advance Islam, then how can you blame his followers from doing the same thing?

Then Sidhe says, Christianity was violent... etc.

But the question is about a person: Mohammed, and comparison is to Jesus.

Mohammed: perfect example to follow, yes or no.

Jesus: perfect example to follow, yes or no.

The first, second, third generation Christians have not converted by force, nor did they fight with one another over the succession of the leader of the church, like the Sunnis and Shias did.

The first century church was spread through miracles, like the ones Jesus did. They brought the sick to the apostles to be healed. And many who saw the counterculture of caring and helping one another that was the church wanted to be a part of it. It was like a hippie commune movement. This group denied an earthly divine King, denied the gods of the Romans, which was a mandatory religion. It caused them to all - all the apostles to be martyred. They were all stoned, crucified, imprisoned, and otherwise tortured to death. When people saw this kind of commitment to the person of Jesus Christ, and saw the love that the Christians had for one another, it became very popular. Soon, it was a movement that "turned the world upside down". Within a short period of time, the church spread from one end of the known world to the other. NONE of this was done by violence. The churches in all the areas of Greece, Rome, Asia, Syria, and all across the Roman Empire were all established by the disciples in love and in personal sacrifice. They walked the known world preaching the GOOD NEWS of Jesus Christ, and as people came to Christianity, they established churches along the way. Any violence done, was done against Christians, and only that. Only when Constantine picked up the flag some 300 years later, after the Christianity was establish and huge in numbers, did anyone do violence in the name of expansion by force.

 

[ParkCungHee]

Jesus: perfect example to follow, yes or no.

No, he condoned and supported through inaction the most tyrannous and immoral empires of his day, that is assuming he could actually perform miricles.

Only when Constantine picked up the flag some 300 years later, after the Christianity was establish and huge in numbers, did anyone do violence in the name of expansion by force.

No but some of them did "do violence" in the name of random beatings because Jesus really liked clubs.

 

[El_Machinae]

enough with the comparisons!

Mott1: I've asked Hannibal why he became atheist. Could you share too?

 

[ironduck]

To any muslims:

Are you offended by any depictions of Muhammad, or only depictions you find to be critical of him? How about humorous depictions that are not supposed to be critical, but amusing and silly, like in a comic book?

 

[ssrt]

So in essence you believe that the Gods of the Vedas, or the Trinity of the Puranas, or the attributeless god of the Advaita Vedanta are all false?

What kind of a Muslim would she be if she didn't?

 

[HannibalBarka]

To any muslims:
Are you offended by any depictions of Muhammad, or only depictions you find to be critical of him? How about humorous depictions that are not supposed to be critical, but amusing and silly, like in a comic book?

Muslims, well at least a lot of the muslims I know do make jokes about Allah, Mohammad and Islam, they even do jokes comparing Christianity and Islam that are in favor of Christianity. They however are offended when those jokes are done by Westerners. As a french humorist once said, although the comarisaon is not good, "A jewish joke in the mouth of a nazi is not a joke any more"

 

[HannibalBarka]

enough with the comparisons!
Mott1: I've asked Hannibal why he became atheist. Could you share too?

I became atheist because of the contradictions between Islam (and all other religions that I know) and History and Science. I however do not consider religion to be "bad". I know that it makes sense to a lot of people, makes them feel better and "structures" their life.

 

[ironduck]

Muslims, well at least a lot of the muslims I know do make jokes about Allah, Mohammad and Islam, they even do jokes comparing Christianity and Islam that are in favor of Christianity. They however are offended when those jokes are done by Westerners. As a french humorist once said, although the comarisaon is not good, "A jewish joke in the mouth of a nazi is not a joke any more"

Sounds similar to how black people have no problem using the 'n-word', but frown upon white people using it..

But what would your friends say if I made some cartoons that included Muhammad in a funny or goofy manner? Muslims seemed particularly outraged of the Muhammad cartoons because he was depicted in a satirical manner. This is somewhat akin to the satirical depictions of Jesus that are quite common, and christians tend to be hurt by those as well. They are less likely to be offended by generally humorous, non-critical depictions about Jesus though, even though they're often made by non-believers.

A good example is the South Park episode with the Super Best Friends, including Jesus, Muhammad, and Buddha. The episode was recently not shown in a rerun or something due to fear of upsetting muslim sensibilities, even though Muhammad is depicted no worse than any of the other divine characters. Would your friends applaud that decision or find it silly? I personally enjoyed the episode and disagree with censoring it.

 

[Azkonus]

...But what would your friends say if I made some cartoons that included Muhammad in a funny or goofy manner? Muslims seemed particularly outraged of the Muhammad cartoons because he was depicted in a satirical manner...

Ok here is what you didn't get. It is forbidden to draw a picture of him because Muslims think it can be turned into God like in Christianity. So "funny or goofy manner" is not the problem but picture is the problem.

 

[Kyriakos]

Is there truth to the general belief in Greece than muslim countries (-Turkey, with which there are of course other factors) regard Greece as friendly, due to the lack of an imperialistic past + islamic medieval associations with ancient Greek thought?
This view is from time to time presented in the media here during wars in islamic countries.

 

[ironduck]

Ok here is what you didn't get. It is forbidden to draw a picture of him because Muslims think it can be turned into God like in Christianity. So "funny or goofy manner" is not the problem but picture is the problem.

Actually I'm quite aware of that, but muslims have different views on whether it's a problem or not to depict Muhammad in the first place. Muslims have depicted Muhammad in the past in quite well known artworks.

 

[Azkonus]

Actually I'm quite aware of that, but muslims have different views on whether it's a problem or not to depict Muhammad in the first place. Muslims have depicted Muhammad in the past in quite well known artworks.

Well it is the first time I saw a picture of him*. Really.

And I am sure the guy who drew that pictures was not a Muslim, because it is clearly forbidden.

*(Of course one can argue if he looks like that).

 

[ironduck]

And I am sure the guy who drew that pictures was not a Muslim, because it is clearly forbidden.

Which one? There are quite a few on the page I linked to, and they're all muslim artworks. There are also non-muslim representations of Muhammad on the website, but not on that page.

Or are you one of those people who claim that people are only muslim if they follow your guidelines?

 

[Azkonus]

...Or are you one of those people who claim that people are only muslim if they follow your guidelines?

For example, there are a lot of Muslims who don't pray, don't go to Mecca etc.. but they don't eat pork. Do you find this strange? (Almost all don't eat pork). You can draw if you want but we are answering "ask a ...." thread so I give you public's opinion. (Almost all don't draw). My opinion is not important here.

 

[ironduck]

For example, there are a lot of Muslims who don't pray, don't go to Mecca etc.. but they don't eat pork. Do you find this strange? (Almost all don't eat pork). You can draw if you want but we are answering "ask a ...." thread so I give you public's opinion. (Almost all don't draw). My opinion is not important here.

You said that you were sure the muslims who painted the pictures were not muslim, because they broke what you think is against islam.

I'm simply asking why you say that. Do you consider muslims who occassionally drink alcohol to not be muslim?

Your opinion is important exactly because it's an 'ask a muslim thread', and I assume you're a muslim (otherwise I have no idea why you would claim the muslim artists were not muslim).

 

[Azkonus]

You said that you were sure the muslims who painted the pictures were not muslim, because they broke what you think is against islam.

I'm simply asking why you say that. Do you consider muslims who occassionally drink alcohol to not be muslim?

Your opinion is important exactly because it's an 'ask a muslim thread', and I assume you're a muslim (otherwise I have no idea why you would claim the muslim artists were not muslim).

First of all, a true muslim never says I am a muslim. Everybody's religion is for himself.

I friend of mine never drink alcohol in his entire life, however he smokes like hell. I think this is stupid because alcohol is forbidden as it hurts your body (and maybe people around) smoking same he should not smoke (it is harmful for your body) but he does because it is not forbidden in the book explictly.

Overall, I can not judge (also no one can judge other ones belief) but this case is really really strange. It was the first time in my entire life maybe that's way I reacted that way.

 

[ironduck]

First of all, a true muslim never says I am a muslim. Everybody's religion is for himself.

Yes, that makes sense. But don't muslims sometimes ask other people (or each other) if someone is muslim? I know that in mosques here, at times they only allow muslims to enter. How can they tell who's muslim if it's a stricly personal issue? Or are they not true muslims in your view? I'm sure you can see that for an outsider it makes little sense to say who's a 'true' muslim, it's just various ideas of what constitutes being a muslim.

Overall, I can not judge (also no one can judge other ones belief) but this case is really really strange. It was the first time in my entire life maybe that's way I reacted that way.

Ok, it's not exactly news though.. doctrine changes in all religions, and during times where there's little or no ban on depicting Muhammad artists will of course be more prone to do so.

 

[Azkonus]

Yes, that makes sense. But don't muslims sometimes ask other people (or each other) if someone is muslim? I know that in mosques here, at times they only allow muslims to enter...

Never. I don't know where do you live but I have never heard anything like that. I mean if you enter dressed up in black, with shoes and stuff maybe you may take attention

Ok, it's not exactly news though.. doctrine changes in all religions, and during times where there's little or no ban on depicting Muhammad artists will of course be more prone to do so.

Little or no ban? who is gonna decide that?

I need to leave now, but will continue.

 

[ironduck]

Never. I don't know where do you live but I have never heard anything like that. I mean if you enter dressed up in black, with shoes and stuff maybe you may take attention

This was in Denmark. It's not normal (afaik), but there have been closed meetings for muslims only. I have no problem with that (it's their club), but that means they have to ask who's a muslim I figure. I didn't realize dressing in black in a mosque was considered offensive.. does it symbolize something?

Little or no ban? who is gonna decide that?

The muftis I assume. They usually issue the fatwas after all..