Ask a Red, Second Edition

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Generally, I'm tilted in favour of red economics and principles, but am turned off by Marxist and socialist terminology - or perhaps just the agitators.

The Communist Manifesto was written in 1848, and the growing spectre had been around a while before; how do Reds see communist, socialist, and similar ideas being implemented in the modern world? Are Marx and Co. still relevant?
 
Generally, I'm tilted in favour of red economics and principles, but am turned off by Marxist and socialist terminology - or perhaps just the agitators.

What do you mean by "Marxist and socialist terminology"?
 
What do you mean by "Marxist and socialist terminology"?

I'm not sure exactly: prats in Che Guevera T-shirts ranting about 'solidarity' and slamming everything without offering any solutions in return.
The left-wing student stereotype, really
 
Those are terminology? Uh, alright. I don't know what they are talking about. Probably just standard anti-imperialist stuff that are not particularly enlightening. I don't blame you.
 
A lot of communists uncompromisingly hold only lofty ideas that is entirely incompatible with the notion of "change" when society evolve from it.
 
A lot of communists uncompromisingly hold only lofty ideas that is entirely incompatible with the notion of "change" when society evolve from it.

This is actually a rather interesting problem. It comes down to a question of agency and structure. Theoretical analysis tends to look at structures synchronically, analysing, for example, society at a given state. There is a difficulty understanding how structures get from one state to another, or indeed, as someone like Derrida might say (I could be wrong on this, though), whether we can think in terms of 'states at all' (Derrida thinks in terms of 'traces' that are constantly disappearing). Synchronic analyses might tell us something about structures, but we must also look at structures diachronically. In other words, as you say, we need to better understand change.

This is where the question of agency comes in. Most people agree, I think, that human beings are instigators of change, almost willy-nilly and consciously or otherwise. But how they do this, to what extent they can do it and whether they have much control over the process is pretty much a big question mark. This seems kind of obvious, since change is in the domain of practice, which clearly has all sorts of exceptions that prevent much generalising. But this is interesting when you look at the process of change. In that regard, AFAIK, people instigate change by reflecting synchronically and adjusting their behaviour. In other words, people theorise about or analyse structures and act in relation to what they come up with. So I think the implication is that it is important to, so to speak, know what you're dealing with and where you want to be heading (which may sometimes be associated with "having lofty ideas"). Otherwise, you'd either be incapable of action that produces change or you'd be acting completely blindly.
 
The problem with "change" in this era now is that the left always seem to be hijacked by new political formations that actually only benefit different new emerging classes arising out of new areas of production and how it is distributed. So it make it hard for practical Marxists to keep up with the change, and theorize new concepts in order to radicalize it.

I thought I was the only who have read some of Derrida's works. :)

But I do have to confess that reading them isn't entirely easy, and I don't speak or read French. That is why I kinda abandon any further reading of them since I suspect that many translations of his work to English as quite a garbled mess.
 
The problem with "change" in this era now is that the left always seem to be hijacked by new political formations that actually only benefit different new emerging classes arising out of new areas of production and how it is distributed. So it make it hard for practical Marxists to keep up with the change, and theorize new concepts in order to radicalize it.

Indeed, analysing society is a challenge, though I'm not sure if new classes as such are really constantly emerging. I think you're referring to new interest groups, and I think this a particularly salient way of looking at it because it recalls Habermas' account of the decline of the public sphere in favour of a new society whose affairs are governed by conflicting interests. I think I agree that the more traditional Marxists still tend to think of the public as divided into two or a few different classes, whereas the reality is there seems to be increasing fragmentation. Not that we have to accept the fragmentation as a given. There are good reasons to want to transcend it, and I think that's the direction that some Marxists are taking.

Thoughtful Thug said:
I thought I was the only who have read some of Derrida's works. :)

But I do have to confess that reading them isn't entirely easy, and I don't speak or read French. That is why I kinda abandon any further reading of them since I suspect that many translations of his work to English as quite a garbled mess.

I pick up my knowledge of Derrida in bits and pieces, by reading stuff that refer to or talk about his stuff. I don't actually read Derrida, god, no. I agree that he's extremely hard to read and I don't have the time and energy for that. Use Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy instead ;)
 
A lot of communists uncompromisingly hold only lofty ideas that is entirely incompatible with the notion of "change" when society evolve from it.

I think socialists (or whatever else-ists) tend to preach just to socialists. It's preaching to the converted and alienating everyone else. And yes, the ideal is presented as the immediate solution.
 
I think socialism ought to be a dirty bad word that whenever someone say it, a great thunder-bolt will come from the sky to strike upon thee blasphemers.
 
Are people the greatest resource?
 
I found this on some popular social networking site, whatever could it have been called? Anyway, I'm interested what some of the lefties here have to say. It seems to be drivel to me.
Spoiler :

AVOID THE SECOND GREAT DEPRESSSION OF CAPITALISM / PREVENT THE SABOTAGE OF THE WORLD REVOLUTION AGAISNT THE DICTATORSHIP & DEBT CRISIS OF NEO COLONIALISM BY ENDING THE WAR IN LIBYA & PREVENTING A CIVIL WAR IN SYRIA!

7 point programme of the the Vth Communist International

1. Economics: almost all countries of the whole world are in debt to the USA. South America is $750billion in debt and Africa is $300billion in debt, 130% of the New Zealand economy is debt, we have to borrow $300 million a week so we can afford to meet our debt repayments. Britain, France, Germany are in debt to the US, the debt repayments they receive from the poor countries allow them to pay their debts to the US, the debt repayments the US receives from the whole world allows them to pay their debts to China. Countries that survive from debt repayments are called imperialist countries. Most of the world is owned by the imperialists and in debt to the imperialists so the world society we live in is called imperialism, globalization and neo colonialism are other words to describe this ‘phenomenon’. China is experiencing inflation, which means that they are no longer growing, because the world is too poor to buy their products. As China decays, they will not be able to afford to buy from other countries either, when this happens, the whole world economy will crash because of ‘imperialist decay’ and we will experience a permanent great depression.

2. Society: every bank, fast food chain, gas station and Car retailer are the assets of multi-national monopoly empires. As we use these means of production we go into debt to these monopolies. These monopolies are owned by a few extremely rich people who control the money of banks and industry in shares; these people are called the financial capitalists and are equivalent to the illuminate (the elite rulers of the world). They own the World Bank and International Monetary Fund (IMF), they give countries loans and receive the debt repayments. The people who manage or semi-own the assets in the neo-colonies are called capitalists and they service imperialist decay.

3. History: in 1968 the capitalist world stopped growing and every western European country started going into debt to America, this was held up by American credit, until nationalized (state owned) industries of the neo colonies had to be sold to America to pay for more credit. They lied when they said nationalization led to decay. Really it was not being in the socialist bloc which was independence from imperialism, with full state control (communism) during the cold war (Russia vs. America) that led to decay. The socialist bloc was growing at a rate of 250% during the great depression. To compare this to capitalism/imperialism on the other hand, the world growth rate in 2008 was 250% fake (credit). America, with French, British, South African and Chinese assistance (after China left the socialist bloc in the late 70s) created civil wars in all the socialist states, killing 100,000 in Nicaragua, 250,000 in Ethiopia, 900,000 in Mozambique, 1 million in Angola, 2 million in Afghanistan, 2.5 million in Korea and 4 million in Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia. Several socialist countries were overthrown by imperialist sponsored coups, Chile in 1973, Peru in 1975, Uganda in 1979, Guinea-Bissau in 1980, Grenada in 1983 and Burkina Faso in 1987. Because of all the coups & war some leaders of socialist states gave up on the cause for the liberation of the whole world from imperialism and were bribed to join America against the socialist block, Somalia and Iraq did this in the late 70’s, but as a result their economies decayed because they were trading with America. The economy was owned by the state and the state run by a single party which had initially led them to communism, America had to invade these countries to prevent the party being overthrown by a people’s revolution in which the economy would have slipped into the hands of the citizens (communism/with neither capitalists nor imperialists). Somalia has been in civil war since the US led invasion of 1992 and 1 million people have been killed in Iraq since the invasion of 2003. Socialist Eastern Europe gave up on socialism between 1989 and 1991 and sold the whole economy to the imperialists, the socialist block collapsed completely as Russia did the same in 1993. Mugabe held back communism in Zimbabwe in 1980 which enabled South African imperialism to survive and continue the civil wars in Angola 1974-2002 and Mozambique 77-92. South Africa invaded Angola in 1987 but was beaten by Socialist Cuba and lost Namibia and Botswana as colonies as a result, this weakened capitalism in South Africa and forced them to legalize the African National Congress (ANC) black liberation army in 1990. Russia & the Socialist block collapsed one year before democratic elections were carries out in South Africa in 1994. All those diamonds which could have improved the lives of millions of people in South Africa, Angola and Mozambique, and in the Socialist block from Cuba to Vietnam were kept in the hands of white South African capitalists and their masters the Yankee finance capitalists.

4. Politics (what does this history mean for the present and the future): the majority of African and South and Central American countries are led by Democratic Socialist Parties. The ANC dominates South African politics and has been taken over by socialists and communists under the Zuma/Malema leadership, the ANC has the potential to develop into a head of the African revolution with the current leadership, first it has to expose Mugabe as a traitor to the cause of liberation from imperialism. Hugo Chavez leads the PSUV (united socialist Party of Veneuzelea) government of Venezuelea and they are leading the democratic socialist revolution by breaking up large farms and giving poor people land as well as nationalizing the economy, Cuba and Venezuelea created the ALBA in 2004 (Bolivarian Alliance for the Americas) which unites socialist countries in Latin America politicaly and economically it includes Antigua and Barbuda, Bolivia, Cuba, Dominica, Ecuador, Nicaragua, Saint Vincent and the Grenadines. now venezuelea is leading all the governments of south and central america socialist and non socialist led to form an economic and political union excluding the USA and Canada and to promote peace worldwide against USA agression. Russia and China also seem to be rising to stand up for peace against the USA.

Corrupt and non-democratic states throughout the world are still ruled by mercenary puppet dictators: kings, sultans or military generals who were installed by America to supress the rise of communism during the cold war, as with Iraq and Somalia, their economies are now collapsing. Egypt and Tunisia have already overthrown their American puppets. The army is now in control of the country and is postponing elections. Riots and protests are still breaking out in these countries and people are still being killed by the protectors of ‘private (American) property’. After this the revolution spread across all of North Africa and the Middle East where most countries are led by pro Yankee dictators, it spread even to Iraq and Afghanistan which were meant to be the model democracies of the middle east courtesy of US ‘peacekeeping’. The revolution has now spread to Burkina Faso which was fed up with colonialism in 1983 but was forced back into neo colonialism between 1987 and 2011. First the army mutinied and then the students and the police joined the revolution. Nigeria is one of the few countries in Africa without a socialist party, after the elections this month in which 50% of a population of 150million didn’t vote, there were riots in response to the outcome.

The western European countries were colonized by the United States after WW2. The neo colonies, Britain, France, Belgium and Portugal had ‘old colonies’ in their possession and America helped them preserve them against the liberation revolution. In the long run trading with America made them spiral down an ever escalating debt-credit cycle. Political parties of these countries whether labour/worker’s parties or capitalist liberal democratic parties, are not on the side of the democratic revolution in Africa and Latin America. Politically speaking they are fake democracies against their own people and in the same boat as the pro American puppet dictatorships. The governments are demanding more taxes and providing less benefits for the workers and poor to pay for the recession, this caused protests in 37 countries in Europe between 2008-2010. America, Britain and France are trying to prevent the rise of Democratic Socialism.

the US sponsored a coup in Venezuela in 2002 which overthrew Chavez, but the people came out onto the streets the next day and the army joined the people to rescue their president. The US sponsored a coup in Honduras in 2009 which overthrew the president who had joined ALBA with Venezuelea even thoug he was not in a socialist party. The USA also sponsored a coup which failed to overthrow the socialist and ALBA member government of Ecuador in 2010. France decided that Gbagbo, the socialist president of Ivory Coast who was nationalizing the economy, did not win the 2011 elections, and invaded Ivory Coast to help Ouattara (a blatant western puppet who has worked for the IMF/illuminate) to overthrow and capture Gbagbo. Ivory Coast is $2,300,000,000 in debt, the puppet who is now in power hopes to resume the debt repayments so he can receive his bribery, but the invasion of Ivory Coast has opened up the potential for a civil war. (These are the election results Ouattara 1st round 32%, 2nd 48.5%, 3rd 54.1%. Gbagbo 1st 38%, 2nd 51.5%, 3rd 45%)

5. Libyan & Syrian Civil Wars the US started a civil war in Libya by creating Facebook and twitter pages calling for people to protests in Benghazi against the socialist political and economic system (Jamahiriya) which has been in place for 42 years. When the protests started an American mercenary army called the Libyan opposition which has been trained since 1981 for this task, shot on the Libyan people’s army, and then other Yankee mercenaries began assassinating innocents creating havoc and an uprising. The pro American media lied that Gadhafi had fled to Venezuela to escape the wrath of his people, and then lied that he had carried out an air strike on his own people which Russian satellites subsequently proved never happened. While the media was lying, thousands of fake twitter and Facebook accounts were spamming messages that Gaddafi was using non Libyan African mercenaries to kill his own people and pleading for international intervention to stop a massacre, the US justified these fake accounts as useful for provoking discussion. America, Britain and France started bombing Libya a month ago but even so, many towns which were taken over by the rebels and the uprising have fallen to Gaddafi’s supporters who are the vast majority of the population. They love him because he preserved socialism giving Libyan people the highest living standards in Africa and the highest literacy rate in North Africa. Gaddafi is a genuine revolutionary who has fought for the liberation of Palestine for his whole career, he invaded Egypt when they left the socialist block in 1977 and gave their support to Israel (who oppresses the Palestinians), he supported Socialist Uganda in a war with Tanzania who was an agent of China after China had left the Socialist bloc and became an agent of the US, and he supporting Socialist Liberation armies in Chad and Somalia against corrupt pro American dictatorships. Today Gaddafi is spearheading the Africa Unite movement. Pro Gaddafi supporters have started protesting in Benghazi against the rule of the Rebels after months of being there in hiding. Over the months Al-Qaeda gave their support to the rebels cause and the rebels have been torturing and executing Libyan soldiers without trial. Syria is led by the socialist Ba'ath party which led Syria while it was in the socialist bloc and maintains nationalization to this day. Syria experienced protests when the arab revolutions began, then pro government supporters protested in there thousands in ever city. A second wave of anti government protests has just begun and this time more than a hundred have been killed, needless to say the Yankees are at it again with their mercenary assasins and will do everything they can to provoke a civil war in Syria to destablize the world revolution.

6. WW3 America and her clients France & Britain are invading socialist countries because the revolutions in North Africa and Middle East will lead to Africa, Latin America and Asia uniting against the imperialist countries to clear the debt. Zimbabwe will have a revolution against Mugabe, and when this happens, the imperialists will fund both sides, and covertly attack both sides, creating an endless civil war, which will eventually draw in South Africa to stop the bloodshed, at this point, the imperialists will wage war on Democratic Socialism worldwide and install worldwide Fascism to supress the world revolution. WW3 and the great depression will fuse together creating a new world, that gives fascist leaders of the west self-justification to carry on, just like they self-justified killing hundreds of millions in their efforts to destroy the socialist bloc while saying that humans were not made to live in socialism.7. Tactics for the revolution in neo colonies: 1. unite workers, unemployed and youth into workers committees a town/city commune. 2. Create a national commune and demand the army joins the commune/arm the commune by any means necessary. 3. Replace the government with a national commune. 4. Nationalize the economy (all land, banks, shops, factories) into the hands of the commune. 5. Unite with Cuba, Nicaragua, Venezuela, South Africa, Libya, Syria, Nepal, Belarus, Turkmenistan, Mongolia, Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia which all have revolutionary workers parties in power, reforming the Soviet Union/Socialist bloc. 6. Demand that the world unites with the socialist bloc to clear debt and that the world revolution advances until the US army is defeated and the US government (illuminate) is overthrown. Please join and help build the Vth Communist International groups on facebook http://www.facebook.com/home.php?sk=group_141191175954443 Arab & African Revolutions: Unite with Libya against the evil USA

Thoughts, opinions on this piece and the authors of it?
 
What are some good English-language books on Marxian economics? I'm reading Wolff and Resnick's Economics: Marxian versus Neoclassical from 1987, but I can't find others.
 
What role would religion be allowed to play in a Red society? Most notably, how would churches be allowed to function? I'm under the impression that society wouldn't give the pastor a portion of the wealth for preaching since then the atheists would get mad. So, how would pastors be able to keep their churches? Since there wouldn't be "Money" as far as I recall, offerings to the church wouldn't work anymore. Would there BE a place for religion?

Basically, I'd like an explanation of how religion and socialism/communism relate.
 
you cant understand marx' materialist political economics as long as you hold on to such metaphysics as religion. at least that's what marx thought.
 
What are some good English-language books on Marxian economics? I'm reading Wolff and Resnick's Economics: Marxian versus Neoclassical from 1987, but I can't find others.

If you want in-depth Marxism, then of course Capital is your single best tool.
Ernest Mandel's Marxist Economic Theory is rather long, but if you can find the Introduction to it (usually published separately), it serves as an effective abbreviation.

What role would religion be allowed to play in a Red society? Most notably, how would churches be allowed to function? I'm under the impression that society wouldn't give the pastor a portion of the wealth for preaching since then the atheists would get mad. So, how would pastors be able to keep their churches? Since there wouldn't be "Money" as far as I recall, offerings to the church wouldn't work anymore. Would there BE a place for religion?

Basically, I'd like an explanation of how religion and socialism/communism relate.

Well first of all, it's not a pastor's church, it's the church's church.

Second, please don't use the term "Red Society."

Third, I'm pretty sure this question has been answered several times in this thread already, and at least one of them was asked by you. Communists and socialists, as a general rule, are either atheists or agnostics, but believe in freedom of religion.

It would be a pretty safe bet, though, that churches would lose their tax-exempt status.

As to whether or not there will be money, that depends. We don't know. Some communists want to do away with it. I have a hard time imagining it, personally, since the universal medium of exchange is so convenient. If there is ever a time that money is discontinued, it will be when the need for reimbursement for one's effort disappears, and people simply do things for one another because they need to be done, with the rightful security of mind that everyone will be provided for by everyone else at the end of the day.

If there's still a "place" for religion after all that or not, is up to each believer.
 
Why has it been a coincidence that the worlds worst dictators were people?
 
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