Ask an Atheist.

[El_Machinae]

When did you see the "light" of athiesm?
Probably already asked, but I'll ask again.

After I thouroughly considered the implications of the various Christian beliefs, I decided to not believe in the Christian God. So, unlike many others, I have faith that the Christian God does not exist. For the other faiths, I more partake of same opinion many others do - there's no reason to consider them. The reason it's different (for me) for the Christian God is that I once considered it to exist, and have since changed my mind.

My specific evidence against the Christian God is the unnoticable level of intervention (despite it being described as interventionist) in people's lives; and a rejection of its moral authority as acceptable.

 

[Blake4000]

Atheism is absurd. So Atheist inevitably believe once your dead thats it. Thats a very negative and poor way of looking at the universe in its infinite complexity. Not only of life, but of the molecules and atoms. all perfectly formed to make the item they are. Blind chance and randomness isn't answered when you believe in evolution. What are the odds of everything coming together. Also, a moral compass that humans hold can't of been born out of 'survival of the fittest' evolutionary mode. It goes against what evolution is.
Atheism is all doom and gloom, so my question is to atheists...what gets you through the night?

 

[Hotpoint]

Atheism is absurd. So Atheist inevitably believe once your dead thats it. Thats a very negative and poor way of looking at the universe in its infinite complexity.

It's not negative, or poor, just realistic. Just because you can't handle the truth don't assume the rest of us are as much of a wimp as you are

Not only of life, but of the molecules and atoms. all perfectly formed to make the item they are. Blind chance and randomness isn't answered when you believe in evolution. What are the odds of everything coming together.

Given the size and age of the universe (and there may even be multiple universes too) pretty much anything that isn't flat-out impossible is actually pretty likely to happen somewhere at sometime.

Evolution isn't really blind chance and randomness by the way, the initial genetic mutations that trigger it is random but natural selection isn't random in itself.

Also, a moral compass that humans hold can't of been born out of 'survival of the fittest' evolutionary mode. It goes against what evolution is.

Actually a "moral compass" stemming from enlightened self-interest (the Golden Rule is actually pretty logical without recourse to a Deity) is a very useful evolutionary adaptation since it allows a society to function smoothly. A group of human ancestors who cooperated, rather than competed, would have a major edge over others.

Atheism is all doom and gloom, so my question is to atheists...what gets you through the night?

Atheism isn't doom and gloom at all, in fact I'm far more upbeat than most of the theists I know. I don't need to believe in God to be happy any more than I need to believe in Santa Claus. You seek meaning in yourself not in what somebody wrote down in an old book.

The universe is wondrous, it's a shame that so many people can't really comprehend how much, because they're sure someone just made it by magic. What a sad limited existance that must be to look to superstition when you don't have the answer? I feel sorry for theists some times

 

[Tycho Brahe]

...Thats a very negative and poor way of looking at the universe in its infinite complexity.

I think its a negative and poor way of looking at the universe in its etc etc if you cant grasp the natural processes that created it.

 

[Sidhe]

Atheism is absurd. So Atheist inevitably believe once your dead thats it. Thats a very negative and poor way of looking at the universe in its infinite complexity. Not only of life, but of the molecules and atoms. all perfectly formed to make the item they are. Blind chance and randomness isn't answered when you believe in evolution. What are the odds of everything coming together. Also, a moral compass that humans hold can't of been born out of 'survival of the fittest' evolutionary mode. It goes against what evolution is.
Atheism is all doom and gloom, so my question is to atheists...what gets you through the night?

The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one.

George Bernard Shaw.

Almost everyone I know is an atheist or agnostic, I can on the whole say that most of them are pretty happy too. Not a pessimist amongst the bunch.

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

It's not negative, or poor, just realistic. Just because you can't handle the truth don't assume the rest of us are as much of a wimp as you are.

I have to say that I don't see atheism as inherently more realistic than theism or agnosticism.

More importantly, I am not a theist merely because I can't handle the prospect of not existing after I die.

 

[Hotpoint]

I have to say that I don't see atheism as inherently more realistic than theism or agnosticism.

More importantly, I am not a theist merely because I can't handle the prospect of not existing after I die

I meant realistic in the terms laid out by the undercurrent within Blake4000's post which indicated that they apparently would have difficulty handing the idea. Realism in terms of only accepting the evidence at face value whether that reality is objectively meaningless in the big scheme of things or not.


And since I can't resist it:

"You want the truth? You can't handle the truth! No truth handler you. Bah, I deride your truth handling abilities" - Sideshow Bob

 

[Sidhe]

Atheism is absurd.

Most atheists think theism is absurd thus the arguments about the IPU used to mock it. I'm not an atheist btw, agnostic.

So Atheist inevitably believe once your dead thats it. Thats a very negative and poor way of looking at the universe in its infinite complexity.

As said no it's just a different way of looking at the universe; poor, good, better are meaningless in the context of the arguments about Gods existence. The arguments simply are.

Not only of life, but of the molecules and atoms. all perfectly formed to make the item they are.

Give enough monkeys enough type writers. In other words this could either be one of a multiverse of universes with slightly differing conditions or this could be one of googleplex of realities existant since the beginning of time that happened to work out.

Given that the universe wouldn't exist if values we attribute to atoms were majorly different and that in turn you wouldn't be sitting here thinking about this question, shows that without a reasonable doubt it's only as unlikely as 1 in 1.

Blind chance and randomness isn't answered when you believe in evolution.

No but it's an excellent way of showing how by trial and error something very complex can arise from something very simple.

What are the odds of everything coming together.

100% as said before.

Also, a moral compass that humans hold can't of been born out of 'survival of the fittest' evolutionary mode. It goes against what evolution is.
Atheism is all doom and gloom, so my question is to atheists...what gets you through the night?

It can and it has, we've had the what came first morality or religion debate before and most people agreed that morallity came before the foundation of religion. I even showed a scientific account of formative reciprocal morality in chimpanzees. Since certain ancestors buried our dead and accorded respect and ritual to them, I'd find it hard to believe they also weren't culturally advanced enough to have a moral code. Are you saying that a moral code that draws people together as a community and gives them a common attitude, a sense of purpose and optimism and a way to deal with their fears is not favourable evolutionary wise?

 

[El_Machinae]

Blake: It would be a mistake to assume that a cheerful or optimistic atheist is stupid. While stupid people can be happy (even when life is not good), it does not follow that just because you believe the atheistic worldview to be depressing, that it is. Chances are you're not seeing the same picture that the atheist is.

 

[viz]

Atheism is absurd. So Atheist inevitably believe once your dead thats it. Thats a very negative and poor way of looking at the universe in its infinite complexity. Not only of life, but of the molecules and atoms. all perfectly formed to make the item they are. Blind chance and randomness isn't answered when you believe in evolution. What are the odds of everything coming together. Also, a moral compass that humans hold can't of been born out of 'survival of the fittest' evolutionary mode. It goes against what evolution is.
Atheism is all doom and gloom, so my question is to atheists...what gets you through the night?

No this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ok4Hv0LQiIA&eurl=) is absurd...

Just so you know, as an Atheist I find the universe and the multiverse in which it may reside awe inspiring and majestic. But contrary to your view that 'life is perfect', it is not entirely so. Do you consider a severly deformed new born baby to be 'perfect'? Do you consider disease to be 'perfect'? Do you consider the killing of countless people in natural disasters to be 'perfect'? You might but I don't. You may respect your god for creating these things I mentioned but I happen to understand that these things happen because that the world and the formation of life is not perfect, at all.

'Blind chance and randomness' are not applicable to natural selection (note the word selection) in evolution, I suggest you read up some more on it. Each and every mutated step of evolution has a beneficial purpose otherwise it would not be genetically passed on through natural selection.

Sorry if I may dissapoint you, but morals do not come from scripture. Look at it this way, if the bible (for instance) said murder was a great thing and should be encouraged, do you think people would do it? No, of course not (not the moderates anyhow). Why is that? Because it's 'immoral' thats why. Does it not occur to you that if the ten commandments were 'immoral' nobody would pay attention to them. The ten commandments simply 'reinforce' our own morals not provide us with them. When was the last time killing homosexuals was 'moral' or sacrifcing ones child?

As for comparing morals to 'survival of the fittest' you are missing the point, survival of the fittest (if indeed the term is the right one to use in this case, which I doubt it it) is applied on a species by species process not in-fighting which is where the majority of our morals lie. Of course the fittest specimens of each species are going to survive, which is why we as humans consider the life of a human more valuable than the life of a dog for example (but as a rational human even I can see the problem in this evidence of redundant evolutionary thought, even though it is clearly present in our biology). In other words regardless of my evolutionary 'hierachy' I don't like seeing animals die just like I don't like seeing humans die. Whereas the bible is nothing more than a human (or dare I say MALE) orientated view.

Just to cap this post off I would like to add that claiming god as an intelligent designer is being ignorant to the facts of biology. Why would god give us eyes with a blind spot in each one? Why would he give us 'vestigal structures', a coccyx, or an appendix etc (both of which can be traced back through evolution, but no longer needed for us to survive)?

 

[Lord_Iggy]

How do atheists view agnostics? I'm not willing to totally dismiss the possibility of god, but if you asked me, yes or no to 'does god exist', I'd say no.

 

[Chandrasekhar]

No this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ok4Hv0LQiIA&eurl=) is absurd...

That's going into my Favorites list along with "Kiss Hank."

Just so you know, as an Atheist I find the universe and the multiverse in which it may reside awe inspiring and majestic. But contrary to your view that 'life is perfect', it is not entirely so. Do you consider a severly deformed new born baby to be 'perfect'? Do you consider disease to be 'perfect'? Do you consider the killing of countless people in natural disasters to be 'perfect'? You might but I don't. You may respect your god for creating these things I mentioned but I happen to understand that these things happen because that the world and the formation of life is not perfect, at all.

'Blind chance and randomness' are not applicable to natural selection (note the word selection) in evolution, I suggest you read up some more on it. Each and every mutated step of evolution has a beneficial purpose otherwise it would not be genetically passed on through natural selection.

Sorry if I may dissapoint you, but morals do not come from scripture. Look at it this way, if the bible (for instance) said murder was a great thing and should be encouraged, do you think people would do it? No, of course not (not the moderates anyhow). Why is that? Because it's 'immoral' thats why. Does it not occur to you that if the ten commandments were 'immoral' nobody would pay attention to them. The ten commandments simply 'reinforce' our own morals not provide us with them. When was the last time killing homosexuals was 'moral' or sacrifcing ones child?

As for comparing morals to 'survival of the fittest' you are missing the point, survival of the fittest (if indeed the term is the right one to use in this case, which I doubt it it) is applied on a species by species process not in-fighting which is where the majority of our morals lie. Of course the fittest specimens of each species are going to survive, which is why we as humans consider the life of a human more valuable than the life of a dog for example (but as a rational human even I can see the problem in this evidence of redundant evolutionary thought, even though it is clearly present in our biology). In other words regardless of my evolutionary 'hierachy' I don't like seeing animals die just like I don't like seeing humans die. Whereas the bible is nothing more than a human (or dare I say MALE) orientated view.

Just to cap this post off I would like to add that claiming god as an intelligent designer is being ignorant to the facts of biology. Why would god give us eyes with a blind spot in each one? Why would he give us 'vestigal structures', a coccyx, or an appendix etc (both of which can be traced back through evolution, but no longer needed for us to survive)?

Very well said.

How do atheists view agnostics? I'm not willing to totally dismiss the possibility of god, but if you asked me, yes or no to 'does god exist', I'd say no.

Personally, as an atheist, I view most agnostics as allies. I've been thinking on the matter a lot, and I've come to the conclusion that atheists are just agnostics with an extra bit of faith. Not a statement that most atheists would like, but there has to be a jump from "there's no evidence for God" to "there is no God."

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Atheism is absurd. So Atheist inevitably believe once your dead thats it. Thats a very negative and poor way of looking at the universe in its infinite complexity. Not only of life, but of the molecules and atoms. all perfectly formed to make the item they are. Blind chance and randomness isn't answered when you believe in evolution. What are the odds of everything coming together. Also, a moral compass that humans hold can't of been born out of 'survival of the fittest' evolutionary mode. It goes against what evolution is.
Atheism is all doom and gloom, so my question is to atheists...what gets you through the night?

Atheism makes me consider the consequences of my actions while I live, instead of after I die. It's quite the opposite of doom and gloom. I cherish my mortality because it is what defines my life. I better make something of this life, because I believe that's it. I don't get to confess my wrongdoings to some entity, who wasn't wronged by me. I have to confess it to the person I wronged or live with the guilt myself. I carry with me the responsibilities of my actions and can't use religion to justify them. I have to look into my own morality to justify them. Religion does not have a patent on morality you know.

What would an afterlife offer me? There are no accomplishments, no goals, no development, no changes in it. It truly would be eternal limbo. An eternity of just being. Heaven or hell, it doesn't matter much after a couple of eternities. We measure pleasure as an opposite of displeasure. We measure joy as an opposite of grief. What opposites does an afterlife have to offer me? Why anyone would want to go to heaven is a mystery to me.

 

[Blake4000]

The link you showed me was hilarious and I totally don't agree with that. It's all just a stupid show so Benny Hinn can make money out of naive people.
One question atheists...what if your wrong? What if, when you die, and for being a disbeliever you go to hell? what do you have to loose by believing? Simple logic. Just believe to be on the safe side. No person in their right mind would willfully go to a place of eternal torture!
Also Viz, he obviously created these things for a reason. And that reason is currently out of human logic. After all there is one passage in the bible that says "My ways are not your ways" God works in mysterious ways according to the bible. So we're not meant to know.
TO Ziggy Stardust, Christians also think about the consequences of their actions too you know. They try and refrain from sinning and they help people. Most major aid/anti poverty programs around the world we're started by Christians(red cross, salvation army etc). Christians today still help the poor, hungry and needy with shelters, homes, and that kind of thing. That is because that is what the bible promotes. "Doing others as you would have done to you." It makes the world a better and more tolerable place. "Doing good deeds." as the bible instructs them.
I'm not saying atheist are incapable of being nice, but they don't have anything or anyone directing them to be nice and to give to charity so they often don't bother.
Now, your children, Wife, Parents according to you. will merely disappear. If that is the case, why do you bother having 'CHRISTIAN' funerals if you believe they just cease to exist?
Also why do you celebrate Christmas which is a Christian festival its origins are in Christian tradition and culture. Also atheist. How do we define what is right and what is wrong? Along time ago most people considered it normal/good to kill in the name of religion, today is unacceptable. Along time ago, homo's were killed, witches were burnt alive on the stake, being a non catholic was punishable with death. These things are now unacceptable. We have ever changing morals right? so where is your rules? who told you to accept homosexuality? Just curious..thats right your government. not yourself. Because to be homophobic can land you in trouble.
What was before the big bang, what caused the big bang? Has there ever been any proof that non living matter can create living matter. Another words, living matter can originate from non living matter? I tell you, NO!. Its never been achievable by science, it has been tried to but they failed. They CANNOT create a single living cell from non living matter.
Why oppose Christianity. It's not doing anyone any harm.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

TO Ziggy Stardust,

My, how formal. Call me Ziggy.

Christians also think about the consequences of their actions too you know.

Cutting you off right there, because I was merely replying to your question. I was speaking for myself as an atheist, and in no way meant to imply that christians don't do what I do

They try and refrain from sinning and they help people. Most major aid/anti poverty programs around the world we're started by Christians(red cross, salvation army etc). Christians today still help the poor, hungry and needy with shelters, homes, and that kind of thing. That is because that is what the bible promotes. "Doing others as you would have done to you." It makes the world a better and more tolerable place. "Doing good deeds." as the bible instructs them.

And all the power to them.

I'm not saying atheist are incapable of being nice, but they don't have anything or anyone directing them to be nice and to give to charity so they often don't bother.

Here's where you are wrong. Many do bother. The desire to do good is also present in atheists. Many people who go around collecting for christian charity organisations are atheists. In those occasions the goal outweighs futilities like someones religion.

Now, your children, Wife, Parents according to you. will merely disappear.

I'm sorry to have to cut up your quote so often, but their memory remains. I am only truly gone when no one remembers me or everything I have done in this world has ceased to exist. Appart from that, yes, they are gone.

If that is the case, why do you bother having 'CHRISTIAN' funerals if you believe they just cease to exist?

Beats me. I will be cremated and spread out at 12,000 feet. Prefferably in a dust-opening from a parachute, but there are legal restrictions to that

Also why do you celebrate Christmas which is a Christian festival its origins are in Christian tradition and culture.

It's origins are pagan, but that aside, I also try to love my neighbour. I also don't steal or murder.

Just because christians do so as well, doesn't mean I can't. For me christmas is a holiday without religious feelings to it. It's a time for me to spend with familly and friends.

Do you think that I as an atheist need to oppose, by definition everything chrsitianity stands for appart from a believe in a deity?

Also atheist. How do we define what is right and what is wrong? Along time ago most people considered it normal/good to kill in the name of religion, today is unacceptable. Along time ago, homo's were killed, witches were burnt alive on the stake, being a non catholic was punishable with death. These things are now unacceptable. We have ever changing morals right? so where is your rules? who told you to accept homosexuality? Just curious..thats right your government. not yourself. Because to be homophobic can land you in trouble.

My sense of equality tells me to accept homosexuality. My fear of being killed myself and need for safity makes me support rules that apply to that. Rules that prevent murder, theft, etc. Treat others like you would want to be treated yourself. It's all simple selfish reasons.

(snip, it's not a proof christianity right or wrong thread, so I'm skipping this.)
Why oppose Christianity. It's not doing anyone any harm.

I'm not oposing christianity. I have seen many good deeds in the name of it. I myself was raised with chrsitian values and embraced most of them. I merely ask the same amount of respect I deal out. Sometimes I even get it

edit:

One question atheists...what if your wrong? What if, when you die, and for being a disbeliever you go to hell? what do you have to loose by believing? Simple logic. Just believe to be on the safe side. No person in their right mind would willfully go to a place of eternal torture!

Read the last paragraph of my previous post on my opinion.

Counterquestion, what if another religion is right? Should I gamble with my 'soul' and adapt to Islam? What about the old Norwegan Walhalla?

 

[Sidhe]

The link you showed me was hilarious and I totally don't agree with that. It's all just a stupid show so Benny Hinn can make money out of naive people.

What is this guy a martial artist or something

One question atheists...what if your wrong? What if, when you die, and for being a disbeliever you go to hell? what do you have to loose by believing?

Atheists believe that they are not wrong, they consider the chance of actually going to hell to be insignificant so it doesn't concern them much.

Simple logic. Just believe to be on the safe side. No person in their right mind would willfully go to a place of eternal torture!

Sounds like your advocating Pascal's wager

Pascal's_Wager

Also Viz, he obviously created these things for a reason. And that reason is currently out of human logic.

Quantum mechanics is currently out of human logic, that doesn't mean God did it, just that we don't know enough to grasp the finer points yet.

After all there is one passage in the bible that says "My ways are not your ways" God works in mysterious ways according to the bible. So we're not meant to know.

Defeatest attitude

TO Ziggy Stardust, Christians also think about the consequences of their actions too you know. They try and refrain from sinning and they help people.

I am actually a little better studied in both religios and philosophical morality than most and am perfectly capable of living to a correct moral standard without needing God.

Most major aid/anti poverty programs around the world we're started by Christians(red cross, salvation army etc). Christians today still help the poor, hungry and needy with shelters, homes, and that kind of thing. That is because that is what the bible promotes. "Doing others as you would have done to you." It makes the world a better and more tolerable place. "Doing good deeds." as the bible instructs them.

As far as I know Atheists create charity groups and give to charity too.

I'm not saying atheist are incapable of being nice, but they don't have anything or anyone directing them to be nice and to give to charity so they often don't bother.

They have their conscience and a moral code just as you do, they just don't believe it comes from God.

Now, your children, Wife, Parents according to you. will merely disappear. If that is the case, why do you bother having 'CHRISTIAN' funerals if you believe they just cease to exist?

Tradition, I'm sure if it was legal for you to bury gran in the back yard or in the woods somehwere some atheists may do that. But since it's easier to get a mortician to do it and this involves a church of some sort, then I suspect that's why they observe Christian burial.

Also why do you celebrate Christmas which is a Christian festival its origins are in Christian tradition and culture.

A christian festival dileberately placed over pagan and secular festivals to supplant them you mean? I'd say any excuse in the depths of winter to get together and have fun is to be encouraged, since most people do it on 25th dec or around their it seems wise to go out and celebrate on these days.

Also atheist. How do we define what is right and what is wrong? Along time ago most people considered it normal/good to kill in the name of religion, today is unacceptable. Along time ago, homo's were killed, witches were burnt alive on the stake, being a non catholic was punishable with death. These things are now unacceptable. We have ever changing morals right? so where is your rules? who told you to accept homosexuality? Just curious..thats right your government. not yourself. Because to be homophobic can land you in trouble.

Morality is more than a theistic idea, the secualr state I and you belong to uses it's only moral judgement in defining what is fair, morality does not live or die on the words of religion. Their are plenty of cogent moral theories from atheists and agnostics, as well as theists.

What was before the big bang

what caused the big bang?

Either: nothing it spontaneously came into existance starting as a singularity and expanding from there. M theory suggests the universe came into being when two membrains of space time colided and that this has happened numerous times. Or you can invoke some sort of neverending big bang and big crunch. Or a multiverse. Or the many worlds intepritation of Physics. Take your pick.

Has there ever been any proof that non living matter can create living matter

Is there any proof it can't? And does it mean because we can't replicate something that took millions of years to even produce a simple chain of enzymes strong enough to withstand it's environment. That somehow it is impossible?

. Another words, living matter can originate from non living matter? I tell you, NO!.

Proove it?

Its never been achievable by science, it has been tried to but they failed. They CANNOT create a single living cell from non living matter.

So? In the last 100 years we have found it possible to do things that our ancestors would have said are impossible, or could never happen. I wouldn't be so quick to make the specious argument that because we can't do something now, it somehow means life can only be created by God for ever.

Why oppose Christianity. It's not doing anyone any harm.

Most atheists I know which is most of my friends do not opose Christianity at all, they're perfectly willing to live and let live, or just ignore Christianity allthogether.

 

[El_Machinae]

It's true that many, many Christians help society more than they hurt it. They obey the law, give to charity, etc. Sometimes, religion is damaging (even in subtle ways) though. The religion will ascribe moral status to harmless activities, which then get in the way of people enjoying or improving their lives(masturbation, eating blood, remarriage after divorce)

Sometimes, too, religions impede the search for truth. People are proactively attempting to (for example) stop the teaching of evolutionary theory and the researching of evolutionary theory. People are proactively trying to stop research into reproductive biology, etc.

Finally, sometimes a religion advocates potentially damaging activities; from fasting too long (brain damage) to letting snakes bite you.

One question atheists...what if your wrong? What if, when you die, and for being a disbeliever you go to hell? what do you have to loose by believing? Simple logic. Just believe to be on the safe side. No person in their right mind would willfully go to a place of eternal torture!

Firstly, to believe in Hell, we would have to ... believe in Hell.

You're describing Pascal's Wager, though. But here's a couple questions for you:
- why not believe in the Easter Bunny, on the off-chance you're right and get more chocolate?
- what if you're wrong about Valhalla, and your life of non-warriorness means that you're not chosen to fight the final battle?
- what if you're wrong about Amon-Ra, and your hubristic assumption that you've been forgiven for your sins means that your soul is even heavier (and more damned) than it is?

I'm not saying atheist are incapable of being nice, but they don't have anything or anyone directing them to be nice and to give to charity so they often don't bother.

Are you saying you wouldn't be a good person, if you didn't believe in God?

Anyway, atheists have a ton of reasons to support charities. Almost everyone wants to live in a better world, and many people realise that proper investment in charities improves the world. Proactively making the world a better place is always a good idea.

Now, your children, Wife, Parents according to you. will merely disappear.

These are all good reasons to work to cure aging, before more of our loved-ones die.

But let's turn it around. Why do you care if Christians are murdered, if they're going to Heaven? You're left with a dilemma, you can admit that Christians being murdered horrifies and bothers you, or you can deny it.

If that is the case, why do you bother having 'CHRISTIAN' funerals if you believe they just cease to exist?

We attend christian funerals because many funeals are Christian. It's a time to comfort people and to mentally say 'goodbye'. But, funerals are not a Christian ritual: many non-Christian cultures had funerals.

Also why do you celebrate Christmas which is a Christian festival its origins are in Christian tradition and culture.

The origins of Christmas are actually pagan. I might as well mention "Saturnalia" now. As well, I've heard rumours that the Christmas tree is homage to the Norse religions.

Anyway, some atheists celebrate Christmas because it's fun! The same reason why people enjoy any other holiday.

Also atheist. How do we define what is right and what is wrong? Along time ago most people considered it normal/good to kill in the name of religion, today is unacceptable. Along time ago, homo's were killed, witches were burnt alive on the stake, being a non catholic was punishable with death. These things are now unacceptable. We have ever changing morals right? so where is your rules? who told you to accept homosexuality?

Most morals come from the idea that it's wrong to hurt other people. Not only is it intuitively easy to figure out, but everyone is motivated to team-up to form such laws. You turn to anyone and say "hey, do you want to discourage murder?", they'll agree - because they see a benefit for themselves.

Many atheists accept homosexuality (though not all do) because we accept that the causes of homosexuality are heavily materialistic. When discussing homosexuality, many intelligent people will use words like "genes" and "hormones" and "uterine conditions" and (when under less PC pressure) "early childhood experiences" and the like.

As well, homosexuality, in itself, seems to be harmless and so (since no one is hurt) it doesn't make sense to oppress it).

Just curious..thats right your government. not yourself. Because to be homophobic can land you in trouble.

Actually, it was the other way around. I pressured my government to accept homosexuals. Just like (I'm sure) the populace pressured the British government to give women the vote in 1928.

They CANNOT create a single living cell from non living matter.

How much science background do you have? We've created viruses from non-living matter. And I can't think of any educated person who believes it to be impossible to put together the proper compounds to generate a living cell.

 

[Truronian]

One question atheists...what if your wrong? What if, when you die, and for being a disbeliever you go to hell? what do you have to loose by believing? Simple logic. Just believe to be on the safe side. No person in their right mind would willfully go to a place of eternal torture!

Its just as likely that only believers will go to hell, so Pascal's Wager falls apart.

I'm not saying atheist are incapable of being nice, but they don't have anything or anyone directing them to be nice and to give to charity so they often don't bother.

So doing good from fear of going to hell/ to earn your place in heaven is more altruistic than doing good with out expecting reimbursement?

Now, your children, Wife, Parents according to you. will merely disappear. If that is the case, why do you bother having 'CHRISTIAN' funerals if you believe they just cease to exist?

Christian's own the rights to funerals?

Also why do you celebrate Christmas which is a Christian festival its origins are in Christian tradition and culture.

Its origins are actually pagan.

Also atheist. How do we define what is right and what is wrong? Along time ago most people considered it normal/good to kill in the name of religion, today is unacceptable. Along time ago, homo's were killed, witches were burnt alive on the stake, being a non catholic was punishable with death. These things are now unacceptable. We have ever changing morals right? so where is your rules? who told you to accept homosexuality? Just curious..thats right your government. not yourself. Because to be homophobic can land you in trouble.

Morals evolve to facilitate the survival of the individual and teh survival of the species as a whole. I would have though changing morals would be more of a problem for theists to be honest.

What was before the big bang, what caused the big bang?

To cause something requires time, and we have no evidence that time existed before the big bang.

Has there ever been any proof that non living matter can create living matter.

All the living matter thats around us today.

Another words, living matter can originate from non living matter? I tell you, NO!. Its never been achievable by science, it has been tried to but they failed. They CANNOT create a single living cell from non living matter.

Do you have some proof that its impossible?

Why oppose Christianity. It's not doing anyone any harm.

Why oppose athiesm, its not doing anyone any harm.

 

[viz]

One question atheists...what if your wrong? What if, when you die, and for being a disbeliever you go to hell? what do you have to loose by believing? Simple logic. Just believe to be on the safe side. No person in their right mind would willfully go to a place of eternal torture!

Well, I don't believe in your god in the same way I don't believe in Poseidon or Amun-Ra etc. What if your wrong about them? You might as well just believe in them too...

Also Viz, he obviously created these things for a reason. And that reason is currently out of human logic. After all there is one passage in the bible that says "My ways are not your ways" God works in mysterious ways according to the bible. So we're not meant to know.

How convenient is that? Just imagine it - 'You don't think what I do is right? No fear mortal, you're not supposed to know, it's not your fault!' Yeah, erm ok. If you accept that nonsense then by all means, lap it up. I don't.

TO Ziggy Stardust, Christians also think about the consequences of their actions too you know. They try and refrain from sinning and they help people. Most major aid/anti poverty programs around the world we're started by Christians(red cross, salvation army etc). Christians today still help the poor, hungry and needy with shelters, homes, and that kind of thing. That is because that is what the bible promotes. "Doing others as you would have done to you." It makes the world a better and more tolerable place. "Doing good deeds." as the bible instructs them.
I'm not saying atheist are incapable of being nice, but they don't have anything or anyone directing them to be nice and to give to charity so they often don't bother.

I know you directed this response to Ziggy, but I would like to comment on your "do as you would be done by" statement. I don't need a book to tell me that I only 'get as good as I give' and in any case I certainly would not do something to ensure a rewarded ticket to paradise. You have just reinforced my thinking that your motives for such 'generosity' and 'good will' are firmly seated in selfishness and how you will be seen in gods eyes rather than for selfless, genuine compassion. I would like to think I am a compassionate person that helps out when I can, yet funnily enough I don't expect nor want rewarding for it.

Now, your children, Wife, Parents according to you. will merely disappear. If that is the case, why do you bother having 'CHRISTIAN' funerals if you believe they just cease to exist?
Also why do you celebrate Christmas which is a Christian festival its origins are in Christian tradition and culture.

That's correct yes, when we die, we die. Like a plant or a fly or an animal. Christian funerals? 'Christian funerals' are for 'christians', a secular funeral would consist of music, poems, eulogy etc just none of the religious pieces. Christmas as in christmas day, jesus, father christmas and angels etc are traditional, that doesn't mean the secular among us follow such traditions. Its a holiday and is treated a such, gifts are great, giving is nice but it doesnt have to be done in the name of jesus. As an Englishman and a catholic I guess, do you celebrate bonfire night the traditional protestant celebration of catholic failure to eliminate the protestant government? As you see tradition becomes obsolete.

Also atheist. How do we define what is right and what is wrong? Along time ago most people considered it normal/good to kill in the name of religion, today is unacceptable. Along time ago, homo's were killed, witches were burnt alive on the stake, being a non catholic was punishable with death. These things are now unacceptable. We have ever changing morals right? so where is your rules? who told you to accept homosexuality? Just curious..thats right your government. not yourself. Because to be homophobic can land you in trouble.

These are immoral that's why they have ceased in all but the fundamentalist mind. The question you should be asking yourself is why you do not consider these things to be moral and why you no longer consider large portions of your own holy book to be moral. Don't you agree with gods word and actions. Regarding homosexuality, no one told me that it was acceptable, I have no concern with peoples sexuality, the 'only' person it should concern is the person in question. It has only ever been immoral in the eyes of the religious and of course the eyes of god who proudly told us all of his hatred and punishment of such 'behaviour'.

What was before the big bang, what caused the big bang? Has there ever been any proof that non living matter can create living matter. Another words, living matter can originate from non living matter? I tell you, NO!. Its never been achievable by science, it has been tried to but they failed. They CANNOT create a single living cell from non living matter.

Before the big bang was something other than an intelligent designer if that's what you mean. There are several theories regarding the big bang, the most popular is an extension of string theory called M-theory whereby membranes exists alongside other membranes in an 11 dimensional hyperspace (yes, it's not easy to grasp unless you're a theoretical physicist, and even if you are it still isn't easy ). These membranes 'ocassionaly' collide to cause the 'big bang', our universe could be one bubble in a theoretical foam. A new three spacecraft system is scheduled to be launched in a few years that will form a trianglular craft some 5 million km across that will try to detect the origin of the big bang, it may then be possible to detect what caused it. But don't hold your breath for a god confirmation. It looks like god's being pushed further and further back by science, once he was the creator of the life, then we found plausable evidence to the contrary, then Earth, then that was slowly debunked, then the sun, hold on I can see a pattern emerging here...

Regarding life, living things transform 'non living matter' into 'living matter' all the time, you and me are doing it now. Your body is made of water and carbon amongst other materials, your blood contains iron, your bones contain calcium and so on and so forth which you eat in your food. As for creating life from scratch, yes it has been achieved, and has been shown to be very plausable to create organic material. Creating a cell is like creating a cake, it needs to be given time to evolve. Like cakes, cells don't just happen, you need to start at the beginning I'm afraid.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miller-Urey_experiment
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cell_%28biology)

Why oppose Christianity. It's not doing anyone any harm.

I oppose Christianity (etc) because I have no reason to believe it. Not only that, but I also happen to oppose the idea of fairies in the garden or pink unicorns. Religion wouldn't do any harm if it was not forced on people but it is. Religion wether you like to admit it or not, affects us all, usually for the worse directly or indirectly.

Harm is caused when contraception is seen as 'taboo'.
Harm is caused when illustrators are murdered for drawing a comic.
Harm is caused when lives are lost because stem cell technology is deemed 'immoral'.
Harm is caused when opposing faiths collide.
Harm is caused when a child is brought up believing he/she is going to hell unless he/she obeys god
Harm is caused when a suicide bomber blows him/herself up on a train/plane/car/bus

To sum up, harm is caused from the moment people put their unconditional faith in irrational fantasies.

 

[Blake4000]

Ziggy, "I don't get to confess my wrongdoings to some entity, who wasn't wronged by me. I have to confess it to the person I wronged" -

What if you did wrong God and that's why you are here? on earth. A fallen angel along with Lucifer/Satan, and you have to be good in order to get back into heaven? Like everyone else on earth.

El_Machinae, Believing in the Easter Bunny when everyone knows it doesn't exist and it was tale/story made by man. And more chocolate isn't that much of a reward that I can't do without. Heaven is a little more important than more chocolate.
Valhalla/Thor Dropped out of use and even the vikings accepted Christianity. Christianity has endured throughout time. From Moses in the desert to present. People believe it much more easily and readily than Thor and Valhalla. Same thing can be said about Amun-Ra. They got removed when a much more plausible realistic set of beliefs came about. (Abrahamic faiths)

"Are you saying you wouldn't be a good person, if you didn't believe in God?" - no I'm not saying that. I believe in the golden rule. "Do others as you would have done to you" Regardless.

They are still Christian funerals because of the fact that you have a Christian priest/pastor attending them. Why don't you get a Hindu or Imam to watch over the funeral? Or save the costs and just bury them privately. Why take the coffin in a Christian Church, why not a mosque or a temple? If after all you don't believe in it, why would it bother you?
If you asked a person do they want to promote depopulation?", they'll agree - because they see a benefit for themselves also. More resources and more wealth for each person, more food and more space. So that is poor logic.

"So doing good from fear of going to hell/ to earn your place in heaven is more altruistic than doing good with out expecting reimbursement?" - No but it will push people that ordinarily wouldn't do anything, to doing things, and reaching out to people in need. Its a motivation would be a better way of saying it.
Would you go to work in a job/office/building site, without getting paid out of kindness to your boss? I don't think so. We all expect something out of what we do, even if its a simple 'thank you'. or a kind word/message. approval, appreciation. Main reason is because it makes us feel good about ourself.

"Morals evolve to facilitate the survival of the individual and teh survival of the species as a whole. I would have though changing morals would be more of a problem for theists to be honest." - my point was, WHO CREATES THEM? Who says what is right and what is wrong? And the survival of the species? Well sorry. but homos don't reproduce, neither do lesbian women. And if this PC so called is correct. the homosexual population will die out (if its genes) Which I think is total bullfeathers. Homos chose to be that way.

viz you sound very much like you listen to Richard Dawkins. A professed Atheist biologist. Who uses the same argument. As I've said, those have fell out of use because they was very clearly absurd. But when Judaism/Christianity and Islam came along it was harder to disprove them or explain them away. So thats why they still exist. So until science disproves God. They'll stick around for along time yet... I personally don't think they will ever be able to disprove God.
Viz, be honest, your statement "I don't expect nor want rewarding for it." - You would at least expect a 'thank you'. Otherwise you would think that person is rude. It goes back to 'feel good' factor. Fuel for the ego/pride.
Where as a Christian sees his good deeds as something for God. A blessing.
Some don't even expect a thank you. They will get their reward from God. Or so they would believe according to the bible. Same in Islam.

"do you celebrate bonfire night the traditional protestant celebration of catholic failure to eliminate the protestant government?" - Good point, I don't Celebrate it but I get involved by lighting a big fire merely for the enjoyment of lighting a big fire. I don't think about it's origins.

My responses didn't answer everything and wasn't well thought out, but Ill add to it later.
My opinion is that God made the Abrahamic faiths that is Judaism/Christianity and Islam dominant religions of the world so that we compete each other in goodness as said in the Qu'ran. The fact that they have endured this long while many other religions have died out such as Celtic God's, Norse God's, Egyptology's God's is proof of that.

Atheists, one question. What if your wrong? What are you going to say to God then?