Ask an Economist (Post #1005 and counting)

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No, I'm not making that assumption. I'm assuming that at the highest point of centralization there is a directive that says (X of this, Y of this) and orders that production. Such a directive is going to be an inefficient allocation of resources based on problems of aggregating data, statistical sampling error, regression error, disaggregating solutions, measurement errror, time bias, etc. etc. One could think that maybe massive computing power could solve the problem, but we're not there yet with the technology. I don't know if we ever will be either, we'll need a quantum processor probably to account for probabilities correctly.

There can be shops and exchange to distribute the merchandise, but since they have no choice in production or what is supplied to them, I'd have to ask what's the point? There were grocery stores in the USSR, but if they were infamous for not having anything.

I'm focusing solely on massive focused central planning here. Economies in the modern era all have some mechanism of central planning (some more than others). However, its impossible to create an efficient system for all individuals because of data issues (and the cardinal/ordinal ranking of preferences).

Check the links that I posted. They go into why politics, even the most free ones, produce suboptimal solutions because it cannot satisfy every voters preferences simultaneously


I get what you're saying, only in some sectors, public services deliver can deliver services according to need, for example I work in a state school, and we meet the learning needs of students extremely well and make real value added improvements to their learning. We are part of a centrally planned department, yet individual teachers are able to match their styles to the needs of learners. If one wants to talk in terms of 'products' then, if state sectors can produce, say a learning 'product', then why not other products?
 
I get what you're saying, only in some sectors, public services deliver can deliver services according to need, for example I work in a state school, and we meet the learning needs of students extremely well and make real value added improvements to their learning. We are part of a centrally planned department, yet individual teachers are able to match their styles to the needs of learners. If one wants to talk in terms of 'products' then, if state sectors can produce, say a learning 'product', then why not other products?

Because the state has advantages in the production of what we call public goods, but has disadvantages when it comes to the production of private goods.

Public goods are commonly thought of as transportation systems, education, national defense, law enforcement (and in Europe, healthcare).

In economics, a public good is a good that is non-rival and non-excludable. This means that consumption of the good by one individual does not reduce the amount of the good available for consumption by others; and no one can be effectively excluded from using that good

For example, if one individual eats a cake, there is no cake left for anyone else, and it is possible to exclude others from consuming the cake; it is a rival and excludable good, or a private good. Conversely, breathing air does not significantly reduce the amount of air available to others, nor can people be effectively excluded from using the air. This makes it a public good. These are highly theoretical definitions: in the real world there may be no such thing as an absolutely non-rival or non-excludable good; but economists think that some goods in the real world approximate closely enough for these concepts to be meaningful.

Public goods provide a very important example of market failure, in which market-like behavior of individual gain-seeking does not produce efficient results. The production of public goods results in positive externalities which are not remunerated. Because no private organization can reap all the benefits of a public good which they have produced, there will be insufficient incentives to produce it voluntarily. Consumers can take advantage of public goods without contributing sufficiently to their creation. This is called the free rider problem, or occasionally, the "easy rider problem" (because consumer's contributions will be small but non-zero).

(that's from wiki, but its a good article. I helped edit it).
(remember, goods is a catch all term and may not refer to tangible goods)
The debate then when it comes to central planning or say government production is what goods a centralized authority is better able to provide than the market. I would say that there is never an actual cut and dry, black and white, yes or no answer for almost all good types. It will depend on the style of economy and its peoples institutions, beliefs, and culture, along with its technological and/or educational level. Education is a good example of this grey area. In the US version, public and private schools compete for students and funds at the secondary level, but primary education is primarily served through local governments. However, the adoption of magnet and charter schools in many inner cities has occured where the government has been unable to provide an adequate product (and most of these moreso free-market solutions appear to work in the areas they have been adopted). This had led to a mix-mash of public and private sector involvement in education.

A government would probably do better determining how many soliders a country needs for protection than the private sector (costs would be unbearly high on each person, and there would be incentive to forgo protection). However, the private sector would do a better job of knowing how many boxes of Lucky Charms the country will consume in a given period.

If we look at public vs. private goods, we can see where our political debates wind up occuring, and what may work and may not work when produced publicly or privately.

The current solution to the problem in the developed world is that one runs a relatively free market but there is significant government involvement. The government can afford to be involved in the production of many goods that wouldn't otherwise be produced because of the increased wealth of its citizens over time.

I mainly ignore the third world here because most of the governments can be classified as predatory. Since their countries have yet to adopt or have sufficient experience with the instiutions of democracy, governments tend to extract resources and live the high life (whilst most of its people starve) until another bloody revolution occurs.
 
Are public goods always better served by governments? I agree that they usually are. But what about radio stations, by definition they are public goods (non-excludable and non-rivalry) but most are private.
 
Are public goods always better served by governments? I agree that they usually are. But what about radio stations, by definition they are public goods (non-excludable and non-rivalry) but most are private.

But the spectrum the use is controlled by the government, so they would be a hybrid.

-- Ravensfire
 
But the spectrum the use is controlled by the government, so they would be a hybrid.

-- Ravensfire

No, the radio stations physical buildings and their broadcasted entertainment and news value is provided by the private sector. What you are mentioning simply means that the industry is being regulated by government, like most industries.
 
Are public goods always better served by governments? I agree that they usually are. But what about radio stations, by definition they are public goods (non-excludable and non-rivalry) but most are private.

Radio stations fall into the in-between domain...Maybe...maybe not.

As with everything these days, there's no black or white answer...depends
 
No, the radio stations physical buildings and their broadcasted entertainment and news value is provided by the private sector. What you are mentioning simply means that the industry is being regulated by government, like most industries.

No - remember that their most important asset is their frequency, which is a public good. Certain frequencies (and call letters) are more valuable than others, just like the equipment of companies.

-- Ravensfire
 
No - remember that their most important asset is their frequency, which is a public good. Certain frequencies (and call letters) are more valuable than others, just like the equipment of companies.

-- Ravensfire

But those frequencies and call letters are not provided by government, they are regulated by government. Government says that only one station can use the letters e.g. KLXY, the government does not provide these letters. This is regulation like any other, I really do not see your point.
 
I thought of another exception to the rule. Emergency rescue, people lost or injured at sea or the mountains or something. Since the rescuers (in a modern nation) would have to rescue the people regardless of their ability to pay, it is a public good. And in most cases emergency rescue services are provided by government. But in Norway the emergency rescue services (for sea and mountains) are provided by the private sector, and it works like a charity. People freely donate to the organization, and the organization is responsible for rescuing people - mostly at sea.
 
So would that be another example of the market actually supplying a public good? Could we be wrong in that the free market will not supply public goods.

BTW, someone mentioned education as a public good. Clearly it is not, because it is not non-excludable.
 
The free market would supply the goods. However, it would be inefficient.

Think National Defense.

See, I dont really see the market supplying National defense at all. I see the free market supplying security for individual areas, such as gated neighbourhoods. But they are not non-excludable, so not a public good.
However, maybe the military (in a free market) would emerge like the emergency rescue organizations we talked about. Come to think of it, wouldnt that be pretty efficient too, because people in high risk areas of war would be inclined to donate more than people in low risk areas. What we would see would be a drop in military spending in most areas, especially the US. Perhaps we would even see a drop in numbers of wars globally, because people would rather spend less on military and keep more for themselves. Only donating a little bit, to keep themselves safe.
 
Umm, Homie...Normally we agree and all, but you miss something reference private security today:

We still have city and state and federal law enforcement too. Private security can't legally do 99% of what they do.

Back when this country was taking off, there was a group called the Pinkertons. A fine security firm (sarcasm)
 
Umm, Homie...Normally we agree and all, but you miss something reference private security today:

We still have city and state and federal law enforcement too. Private security can't legally do 99% of what they do.

Back when this country was taking off, there was a group called the Pinkertons. A fine security firm (sarcasm)

I read up on the Pinkertons, apparently they are now Securitas, a swedish firm which basically gets all the security gigs in Norway. Malls, airports, money transports, night guards, you name it - Securitas does it. How interesting that their origin is American, and old, from the 1800s.

Yep, you are probably right about the military under the free market.
 
Inflation/deflation is the ratio of money supply (debt obligations) to total goods. When the supply of money increases relative to the amount of goods in circulation (too much new debt for businesses to keep up in production), there is inflation. When the supply of money does not increase relative to the amount of goods in circulation (businesses are increasing production but not taking on new debts for expansion at the same rate) there is deflation, and money is worth more.
Now, assuming that all else remains neutral (supply and demand for everyday goods, fuel prices, wage rates, etc), is this a true statement or completely baseless, and why?

From another forum on a debate on the pros and cons of the gold standard and the concept of the "compound interest paradox" (any words on those?).

Any input is appreciated :)
 
Do you expect the Fed to cut again in January?
 
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