Assorted personal political thoughts.

[Abegweit]

Wait, when did we switch from talking about social security to theft?

Socialist security has always been about rich old people stealing from the poor young. Where is the switch?

What theft statutes do you want me to opine on?

SS 1934. as I recall.

 

[GhostWriter16]

I don't know if that's "What its about" although I am open to be convinced. I think it was just a matter of FDR's greater programs of "Government providing for the people" and he wanted government to provide for the elderly to be able to retire. Laudable, but first of all, it required those who were young at the time to save for their whole lives (Through taxes) yet those who had never done so received it on a silver platter. In addition, the government clearly has no interest in keeping the system solvent, so eventually a generation, I suspect mine but you never know, will be forced to pay into a system they will never receive from.

I will say I don't necessarily accept Abegweit's premise that "Taxation = theft" although I do have more respect for the proposition than some, but I think in social security's case there's some pretty obvious theft going on. If the intent was really going to help people, there'd be individual accounts, you'd get what you paid in, nobody in FDR's generation would have collected a dime (Since they didn't pay in) and the government wouldn't be pulling money out of it for other parts of their unsustainable debt.)

 

[Abegweit]

I will say I don't necessarily accept Abegweit's premise that "Taxation = theft"

This has never been my proposition. While I agree that taxation is theft, my point has always been that the purpose of the state is theft. If taxation actually served some social good, I might be able to live with it. But it doesn't. On the contrary, the purpose of taxation is to enable the rich and the powerful to steal from the poor and the powerful. The state enables "your loyal correspondent" to steal. That's how he makes his living.

Of late I have come to believe that the modern state has an even more important use to the powerful than mere theft. It enables those in control to impose their notions of right and wrong on the rest of us. It indulges the universal human desire to boss around other people. The neat thing about democracy is that it allows everyone to inflict themselves on everyone else.

 

[GhostWriter16]

This has never been my proposition. While I agree that taxation is theft, my point has always been that the purpose of the state is theft. If taxation actually served some social good, I might be able to live with it. But it doesn't. On the contrary, the purpose of taxation is to enable the rich and the powerful to steal from the poor and the powerful. The state enables "your loyal correspondent" to steal. That's how he makes his living.

Of late I have come to believe that the modern state has an even more important use to the powerful than mere theft. It enables those in control to impose their notions of right and wrong on the rest of us. It indulges the universal human desire to boss around other people. The neat thing about democracy is that it allows everyone to inflict themselves on everyone else.

Which ultimately leads to the majority inflicting its will over the minority. I think we'd be much better off if every law required a 2/3rds majority rather than half plus one. Filibuster and having two houses helps some, but there will always be people that ignore the filibuster (See UHC law, they ignored it since it was a "Budget Bill" but it wasn't really.)

I also think there should be an absolute cap on how much can be taken in taxes. If you want to balance the budget, and you'd better, cut spending...

 

[Perfection]

I see politics as a bunch of mouthy jerks making ludicrous comments, is it wrong for me to aspire to join the fun?

 

[Traitorfish]

Socialist security

 

[Lord of Elves]

Of late I have come to believe that the modern state has an even more important use to the powerful than mere theft. It enables those in control to impose their notions of right and wrong on the rest of us. It indulges the universal human desire to boss around other people. The neat thing about democracy is that it allows everyone to inflict themselves on everyone else.

What a charming philosophy. How do you account for human decency and morality?

 

[Abegweit]

Which ultimately leads to the majority inflicting its will over the minority.

That's not how it works. The majority of Americans want to stop the wars, hated the bankster baillouts and opposed the so-called stimulus. Yet all these things happened anyway. These battles are political, which means that those with the most power impose their will over the majority.

While I despise democracy, I have to say that it would be far superior to the system we actually have.

 

[Save_Ferris]

I think social security is pretty obviously theft because it was originally taken in order to give to those who did not put into it and will in the future be unable to support those who did. That's pretty blatant theft from my generation or some future generation to pay for the elderly of the New Deal generation.

This is pretty basic stuff IMO.

I don't think there's anything we can do to repay those who made America a world power.

 

[Traitorfish]

Was that statement intentionally ambiguous, I wonder?

 

[GhostWriter16]

I don't think there's anything we can do to repay those who made America a world power.

Who made America a world power exactly? All sorts of people could be credited for that I suppose.

I reject the notion that the state should force me to pay for people to retire on credit, who paid for other people to retire also on credit, when the first retirees never paid into the system.

That's not because I'm unwilling to help people out either. Its because its a form of theft when forcibly coerced.

The idea behind taxation is apparently that we get a benefit that we pay for. Why are we paying for social security for two generations ago then? Why did those who first collected from it never pay into it?

Its theft.

 

[Abegweit]

Which ultimately leads to the majority inflicting its will over the minority.

Unfortunately that's not how it works. While I am no fan of democracy, it would be far superior to the system we actually have. Most Americans want to end the wars, hated the bankster baillouts and opposed the so-called stimulus. Yet all these outrages took place.

Ordinary folk have common sense. They would not vote in favour of printing money, of trillion dollar deficits, of the imprisonment of their sons and the enslavement of their daughters. Yet, somehow, all this happens.

 

[Save_Ferris]

Who made America a world power exactly? All sorts of people could be credited for that I suppose.

I reject the notion that the state should force me to pay for people to retire on credit, who paid for other people to retire also on credit, when the first retirees never paid into the system.

That's not because I'm unwilling to help people out either. Its because its a form of theft when forcibly coerced.

The idea behind taxation is apparently that we get a benefit that we pay for. Why are we paying for social security for two generations ago then? Why did those who first collected from it never pay into it?

Its theft.

America is a group effort. The only "we" is America.

 

[Abegweit]

America is a group effort. The only "we" is ourselves.

This is true. But everyone who tries to claim that this is something important it is invariably full of animal excrement. If by "we", you mean Murricans, just stuff it. It's a big planet and we are all there together.

 

[GhostWriter16]

Unfortunately that's not how it works. While I am no fan of democracy, it would be far superior to the system we actually have. Most Americans want to end the wars, hated the bankster baillouts and opposed the so-called stimulus. Yet all these outrages took place.

Ordinary folk have common sense. They would not vote in favour of printing money, of trillion dollar deficits, of the imprisonment of their sons and the enslavement of their daughters. Yet, somehow, all this happens.

Is there something in particular you're addressing with the bold?

Otherwise, I don't like our system, at all, but am not sure democracy would be much better.

America is a group effort. The only "we" is America.

I fundamentally disagree, which is why I am as libertarian as I am.

This is true. But everyone who tries to claim that this is something important it is invariably full of animal excrement. If by "we", you mean Murricans, just stuff it. It's a big planet and we are all there together.

OK, you can't just change somebody's quote and then say you agree with it. I disagree with what he said, and so do you. Don't change quotes

I actually would disagree with you as well. The "We" for me is my local church, or at a broader level, my Christian brothers and sisters, and then at the broadest level, humankind in general. I wouldn't really put "Country" into it at all, TBH. I am loyal to my country, but that's hardly my top loyalty (And some would even dispute my loyalty to my country. For me, local governments also trump higher ones.)

 

[Abegweit]

Is there something in particular you're addressing with the bold?

Do you realise that millions of your fellow Americans are shipped off to prison for no reason other than that it benefits the people who are paid to destroy their lives?

OK, you can't just change somebody's quote and then say you agree with it. I disagree with what he said, and so do you. Don't change quotes

I didn't change anything. He made a couple of vapid empty statements. To whit: "America is a group effort. The only "we" is ourselves." How is it possible to disagree with this? Of course it's true. The problem is the sub-text

I actually would disagree with you as well. The "We" for me is my local church, or at a broader level, my Christian brothers and sisters, and then at the broadest level, humankind in general. I wouldn't really put "Country" into it at all, TBH. I am loyal to my country, but that's hardly my top loyalty (And some would even dispute my loyalty to my country. For me, local governments also trump higher ones.)

I don't know why you think I would disagree with this. Well aside from this "loyalty" crap.

 

[GhostWriter16]

Do you realise that millions of your fellow Americans are shipped off to prison for no reason other than that it benefits the people who are paid to destroy their lives?

I know we have the highest incarceration rate, but is it "Millions?"

And how many of them were actually for legitimate reasons?

I didn't change anything. He made a couple of vapid empty statements. To whit: "America is a group effort. The only "we" is ourselves." How is it possible to disagree with this? Of course it's true. The problem is the sub-text

He said the only "We" is America. He didn't say the only "We" is ourselves.

I don't know why you think I would disagree with this. Well aside from this "loyalty" crap.

I have an unfortunate tendency to take almost everything literally....

 

[Ajidica]

I know we have the highest incarceration rate, but is it "Millions?"

Yep, around 3 million.

Link to video.

 

[GhostWriter16]

Well, at least some of those arrests would have been legitimate. Not sure how many though so I'm not sure if "Millions were wrongly imprisoned is accurate or not."

I agree we imprison too many people though.