Assuming HC is the best leader in the game, who is #2, and why?
- Thread starter Gwynnja
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Difficult decision: Ram_asses maybe, especially if you include cheesy religious victorys.
Ghandy, Mansa, Elizabeth are close.
This would be my top 5 probably with Egypt as 2nd place and HC as a clear Number 1. Darius could be near the 2nd best leader also.
Ghandy, Mansa, Elizabeth are close.
This would be my top 5 probably with Egypt as 2nd place and HC as a clear Number 1. Darius could be near the 2nd best leader also.
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It's not about "love" but rather simple fact which pretty much boils down to the power of the Quecha on higher levels. It's been beyond proven how powerful the Incans are because of the Q, not to mention his excellent traits and UB. With that said, I don't care much for that playstyle and I think many others don't care for it either. There's a reason Incans are banned from HOF competitions.
My top 5:
Pacal
Egypts ( I really rate Hatty and Ram about the same)
Mehmed
De Gaulle
Isabella
robbyextreme
Prince
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I play K-MOD, immortal/large big_and_small map, no huts, random events. I've decided my tier list a while ago.
1. Elizabeth.
2. William.
3. Asoka
the rest of them are pretty much any financial leader in whatever order. But probably Hannibal as a 4th is good. The trait combo is great to have fat productive cities quickly.
Quecahes are easily a top 5 civ to. But on K-MOD they require 20 hammers. So producing them every 1 turn in multiple cities isn't possible.
1. Elizabeth.
2. William.
3. Asoka
the rest of them are pretty much any financial leader in whatever order. But probably Hannibal as a 4th is good. The trait combo is great to have fat productive cities quickly.
Quecahes are easily a top 5 civ to. But on K-MOD they require 20 hammers. So producing them every 1 turn in multiple cities isn't possible.
shakabrade
Praise Vivec!
Gandhi. Always useful and probably the best UU and wonderful traits.
I'm not a high level player myself, so obviously i wasn't disagreeing.
I'm just confused because of the Ind trait especially; in Diety you go less for wonders than in lower levels (cseanny recently wrote something about it).
HC is really powerful but i've never had th impression of "this game feels so easy with this leader".
But then again, i'm not disagreeing at all
im just too inexperienced i guess.
Back to topic: I can't say which leader is best, and im not even a diety player anyway. However, my preference goes, in order, to:
1) Mehmed
2) Mansa
3) Hatchepsout
4) Darius
5) Louis XIV
I'm just confused because of the Ind trait especially; in Diety you go less for wonders than in lower levels (cseanny recently wrote something about it).
HC is really powerful but i've never had th impression of "this game feels so easy with this leader".
But then again, i'm not disagreeing at all
im just too inexperienced i guess.Back to topic: I can't say which leader is best, and im not even a diety player anyway. However, my preference goes, in order, to:
1) Mehmed
2) Mansa
3) Hatchepsout
4) Darius
5) Louis XIV
I would like to start another raging discussion how Mehmet is not all that great. At least not top 10
Spoiler :
He's pretty well rounded. I'm not the biggest Organized fan, but there are players better than me that love it. I love Expansive (although there are players better than me that don't :shrug: ) Hamman is great. Starting techs are great. Loads of cheap buildings. I might not put Meh in my top 10, but if not, he's on the cusp.
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What less experienced players fail to see about the IND trait on higher levels is the power of fail gold. It's not about completing the wonders, but rather putting hammers into Wonders so you get nice chunks of gold when AIs build them. Not to mention multi-building National Wonders for fail gold. Even so, IND does give you a good chance at some of the wonders you do want to beat the AI too like TGL.
Not sure what cseanny wrote, he's a good player, but I'm sure he knows the value of fail gold. Him making a statement that going for wonders on Deity is not advisable makes sense, but that logic does not preclude fail gold.
Fail gold is one of the main tricks on winning at higher levels, and IND does it so much better due to the hammer to gold conversion.
@Lymond
That makes sense, thanks for the explanation. I didnt take fail gold into consideration; i know it's powerful, i just didnt think it was enough to make Ind so popular at higher level. Thanks for clearing it up.
Also, about my referrence to cseanny: he wrote something like "the only wonders i would consider targetting are MoM/TGL/TM". Thus I said that in Diety you aim to build wonders less than in lower levels. I was't talking about fail gold there, and didn"t mean to imply that cseanny never goes for it. I apologize if my post made you think something like that, i know how good cseanny is at the game
That makes sense, thanks for the explanation. I didnt take fail gold into consideration; i know it's powerful, i just didnt think it was enough to make Ind so popular at higher level. Thanks for clearing it up.
Also, about my referrence to cseanny: he wrote something like "the only wonders i would consider targetting are MoM/TGL/TM". Thus I said that in Diety you aim to build wonders less than in lower levels. I was't talking about fail gold there, and didn"t mean to imply that cseanny never goes for it. I apologize if my post made you think something like that, i know how good cseanny is at the game
I vote old Qin who was IND/FIN (IMO best trait pairing possible). Additionally, he has my absolute favorite starting techs of all time; AGR/MIN. So many potential openings to have fun with, not to mention Cho's.
For current stuff I vote Darius followed by Rammy. Both have great trait/tech combos with 2 of the deadliest UUs. Addressing Timo and Lymond, yes, I love me some fail gold.
For current stuff I vote Darius followed by Rammy. Both have great trait/tech combos with 2 of the deadliest UUs. Addressing Timo and Lymond, yes, I love me some fail gold.
Rainy Days
Chieftain
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Anything with a good early UU could be up there. I'm a bit surprised Gandhi gets votes, he doesn't have anything to deal with tough situations. If you get boxed in or start next to warmongers the game's pretty much over. Oh yeah... and mysticism. :/
I'm a Gilgamesh fanboy. Good starting techs, good UU & good UB. Can choke with protective archers, can Vulture rush, can rex on maps with a lot of space.. he's pretty beastly.
I'm a Gilgamesh fanboy. Good starting techs, good UU & good UB. Can choke with protective archers, can Vulture rush, can rex on maps with a lot of space.. he's pretty beastly.
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Sorry, but this is a bit illogical especially considering that Gandhi has arguably the best (and earliest) UU in the game, less Q's. "Early UU" does not necessarily get you out of tough situations any more than standard UUs. Granted some of them are good for rushes or barb defense. However, good players do just as fine without them. Gandhi has great traits and UU and is actually a very good warmonger, as is Asoka.
Gandhi is not in my personal Top 5, but he would be #6. Ofc, we are talking about human player here, but it is interesting to note that Gandhi is twice winner of the Deity AI tournament.
fyermind
Chieftain
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There is a lot to be said for darius. He has the economic power to expand, starts with animal husbandry within easy reach and can grab archery fast if there aren't horses. His economic power and UU allows him to rush/choke 2 AIs and still win lib. That is saying something.
Still, without horses, he's not so hot, and he is a long shot from bronze working, so maybe not the second best.
I'm a huge fan of bulb rushing engineering (or at least keeping the option open) so Suleiman is one of my favorites.
Willem's traits are amazing, but he lacks UU or UB of consequence. (Dikes are great, but too little too late)
Augustus and Julius are boss.
So top 5 in order:
Darius
Suleiman
Willem Van Orange
Augusts
Julius
Still, without horses, he's not so hot, and he is a long shot from bronze working, so maybe not the second best.
I'm a huge fan of bulb rushing engineering (or at least keeping the option open) so Suleiman is one of my favorites.
Willem's traits are amazing, but he lacks UU or UB of consequence. (Dikes are great, but too little too late)
Augustus and Julius are boss.
So top 5 in order:
Darius
Suleiman
Willem Van Orange
Augusts
Julius
