Atlantis: What is it all about?

[Harv]

You keep putting Atlantis at 9000 BCE, The lunar calendar puts it at about 1400 BCE. Egypt used a Lunar calendar.

I looked through the entire thread searching "lunar" to try to understand what you mean by the Lunar calendar. I got back to the very first post.

So when might Atlantis have existed?
The actual geologic history of the area makes the 9000 BCE date quite unlikely. Ice sheets covered much of Europe and sea levels were lower such that many of the islands were part of the mainland. But if the Egyptian lunar calendar is used for counting back, rather than 9600 BCE we get a more reasonable 1350 BCE or so date.

I will check Wikipedia next. I'm looking for how years get converted.

 

[Harv]

I'm sorry about the double post. There is something that has been puzzling me. More specifically, that something is Hindu mythology, of which I know nothing. I will add two articles I have been reading over lunchtime below.

https://www.hindufaqs.com/similarities-hinduism-greek-mythology-ep/

https://www.thebetterindia.com/41620/similarities-hindu-greek-mythology/

It is claimed and generally accepted that Troy has been located and is in the northwest part of what is now Turkey.

Achilles and Lord Krishna: I think Krishna and Achilles both were the same. Both were killed by an arrow piercing their heel and both are the heroes of the two of the world’s greatest epics. Achilles heels and Krishna’s heels were the only vulnerable point on their bodies and the reason of their deaths.
....
1. Krishna and Achilles
Both heroes of their respective mythologies, Krishna and Achilles were both killed by arrows piercing their heel — the only vulnerable part of their body.
.....

The articles talk about similarities in the stories. What other cultures also tell similar stories?

Stories like this have made me reconsider whether we have really found Troy or not.

Atlantis and Dwarka: Atlantis is a legendary island. It is said that after a failed attempt to invade Athens, Atlantis sank into the ocean “in a single day and night of misfortune.” In Hindu Mythology, Dwarka, a city built by Vishwakarma on the order of Lord Krishna is supposed to have suffered a similar fate of submersion into the sea after a war among the Yadavas, the descendants of Lord Krishna.

Are there any resident experts on Hindu mythology who can help?

Are there other cultures that have a story similar to Atlantis?

 

[PhroX]

I'm not an expert by any means, but from what I've read, I don't think it's particularly contoversial to say that both vedic (i.e. early hindu) and greek mythology both have their origins in the proto-indo-european culture.

 

[Harv]

I'm not an expert by any means, but from what I've read, I don't think it's particularly contoversial to say that both vedic (i.e. early hindu) and greek mythology both have their origins in the proto-indo-european culture.

I do not have a problem with that idea. However, it does shoot in the foot the idea I was pushing when I was comparing the Atlantis invasion to the Sea People invasion, because this Proto Indo-European culture would predate this invasion. So I will offer a competing idea, based on nothing more than my own speculation:
Is it possible that Vedic (Hindu) mythology gathered stories from all across the known world?
......

Looking for more information, I found this:
chrome-extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/viewer.html?pdfurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.atlantis-scout.de%2FFranke_Herodotus_Atlantis2008_Proceedings.pdf&clen=97539&chunk=true

I do not know how credible it is. Somewhere I have a copy of Herodotus Histories, translated into modern English. Based on my earlier posts, I had timelines confused.

Next I will try to look up what Herodotus had to say about the Sea People invasion.

 

[Birdjaguar]

That link looking string doesn't work for me.

 

[PhroX]

I was probably a bit unclear in my last post - I wasn't by any means saying that all of Greek or Vedic mythology dates from the Indo-European culture, just that there is most probably a shared core from this time. And that core is shared much more widely than just those two cultures. Common elements are seen in the mythologies of the Celts, Norse, Baltic people, Romans, Hittites and more. And these are all cultures who's languages are similarly linked, thus furtehr pointing to the common origin. One of these copying or appropriating the others is unlikely given how much is shared not just with one, but with many other cultures.

It is however, certain that other myths within these cultures developed independantly after they split apart. And those could plausibly be spread through contact with other cultures. So your idea of a later event inspiring both Atlantis and the vedic myth you mention is not incompatible with shared PIE origins, though I can't really speak for how likely it is, as I'm not well versed on the subject at all.

 

[Harv]

That link looking string doesn't work for me.

I'm really sorry about that. I will try again.

https://www.atlantis-scout.de/Franke_Herodotus_Atlantis2008_Proceedings.pdf

I was reading a bit of it. It looks like he only cites a single source and he is the author and I might do well to keep that in mind.
At least it is not a 6 hour video.

Something interesting he said was Herodotus got some funny dates from Egyptian priests in Thebes and that is why he got funny dates.

 

[Berzerker]

https://www.google.com/search?q=egy...P_gYbGcF7SFieoP94mmmAQ&bih=593&biw=1316&hl=en

https://www.google.com/search?q=ved...TKYAQCgAQGqAQtnd3Mtd2l6LWltZ7ABBA&sclient=img

why pyramids?

The Egyptian Ben Ben and Indian Vimana

remember the UFO footage from the navy pilot of the rotating triangle?

 

[Berzerker]

Thanks. Sitchin says the Egyptian pyramids were built as beacons for Alien space ships to land nearby so they could pick up the gold mined in Zimbabwe. Those pyramids in Caral are too far from the spaceport in Nazca to be useful and the Andes mountains would work pretty well anyway.

plenty of gold in the Andes... and images on the ground to be seen by people in the sky

Really? Earth had one such cataclysm, some four billion years ago or so. It got a moon from that. Took quite a while before it was inhabitable for the most basic life afterwards.

Two cataclysms... The Moon forming event is now believed to be 4.4 bya. Then about 4 bya the world - covered by water - suffered a series of collisions followed by plate tectonics/continent formation and life. It is this 2nd cataclysm that creation myths like Genesis describe.

 

[Birdjaguar]

Not Atlantis i think, It is a well known temple to Melkart dating back to around 1000 BC which was pretty famous in Roman times and was destroyed around 8th or 9th century, supposedly by moors looking for hidden treasures. Nobody knew where exactly it was until a few months ago when the remains were finally discovered. Curiously i took that picture while standing just on top of it without knowing anything about it.

https://www.theatlantisproject.org/spain-as-atlantis/

https://www.thevintagenews.com/2018/12/01/atlantis-has-been-found/?chrome=1

 

[Thorgalaeg]

https://www.theatlantisproject.org/spain-as-atlantis/

https://www.thevintagenews.com/2018/12/01/atlantis-has-been-found/?chrome=1

Yes, I have read about weird circular ruins at the natural reserve of Doñana, however there was a very ancient civilization just in the same zone called Tartessos. Probably it has something to do with said ruins. Doñana reserve is about 50 km northward from the place where i took the picture.

 

[Bamspeedy]

remember the UFO footage from the navy pilot of the rotating triangle?

Bokeh, today's Word of the Day.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bokeh

Guy was able to perfectly reproduce the navy footage.

 

[Birdjaguar]

Cool video!

 

[Berzerker]

that was released by the Pentagon, I may have confused this with that bright triangle. This one is triangular in shape but kinda looks a spinning top. I dont think it has a flat base like a pyramid and it probably has landing gear that extends - if its real

tower of Babel?

the cone shape could be a rocket sitting on a platform

The Epic of Gilgamesh describes his trip to the area once home to the Cedars of Lebanon where the gods ascend and land.

4 And they said, Go to, let us build us a city and a tower, whose top may reach unto heaven; and let us make us a name, lest we be scattered abroad upon the face of the whole earth.
5 And the LORD came down to see the city and the tower, which the children of men builded.
6 And the LORD said, Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do.
7 Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech.
8 So the LORD scattered them abroad from thence upon the face of all the earth: and they left off to build the city.
9 Therefore is the name of it called Babel; because the LORD did there confound the language of all the earth: and from thence did the LORD scatter them abroad upon the face of all the earth.


according to Genesis the people building their tower to ascend Heaven said they were making a 'name' for themselves, Sitchin says the word for name ('shem') refers to flight, the ability to reach the heavens. Course his interpretation has been dismissed but look at how the Bible describes this 'name' they were making.

"let us make us a name, lest we be scattered abroad upon the face of the whole earth."

How does a name prevent being scattered? What does a name have to do with a tower to reach heaven? And why would God care? Here's why...

"6 And the LORD said, Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do.

7 Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech.
8 So the LORD scattered them abroad from thence upon the face of all the earth: and they left off to build the city."

Echoes of the Serpent in the Garden giving mankind knowledge... If we could 'make us a name' how would we be unrestrained, how could we reach Heaven and avoid being scattered abroad because of this name? Kinda strange the people were making this shem to avoid being scattered... they were scattered for making it. God was afraid of what they might do with this 'name'. Sitchin's interpretation makes sense, the tower was not any ordinary tower.

Various researchers place the story in the latter half of the 4th millennium bc and Nimrod was the leader of the people making the shem. A Ponca legend says they were brought here with their dogs on a great thunderbird. We see city state empires start appearing around the world after that.

There was a recent diffusion after the Flood and after Plato's timing for Atlantis' demise. Long after, there's not much of anything in the record between Gobekli Tepe and the Sumerian civilization. People ofc lived but we dont really see similar concentrated efforts.

 

[Birdjaguar]

Your coin drawing is described: Coin of the Phoenicians, Syria, coin of Byblos with a representation of the temple of Astarte
Now note that it is a drawing and not an image of a coin. If you go here you will lots of real Phoenician coins. None even come close to the image of your drawing. So I ask, what is the source of that image? Who drew it and when? From what? And IIRC, none of Sitchins rockets look anything like that. His all have wings. What about the coin says Tower of Babel? Most of the image is a variety of one story walls.

Long after, there's not much of anything in the record between Gobekli Tepe and the Sumerian civilization.

You should read Sitchin's time line. Lots happened. According to Sitchin the Iron Age began in 8970 BCE.

8,970 bc ~ The ’First Pyramid War’ takes place. HORON / Horus, having grown into manhood, heads to Tilmun, the Land Of The Missiles, with an army of loyal earthlings. They carry weapons made of iron, a new metal, the secrets of the making of which HORON learns from his great-uncle, GIBIL, a son of EN.KI. HORON challenges SATU / Seth to a battle in order to avenge the death of his father, ASAR / Osiris. SATU responds that the fight is between just the two of them, and in turn challenges HORON to a personal duel. etc.

I do find it interesting that space aliens who had been on earth for 400,000 years mining gold didn't invent iron weapons sooner. Why haven't we found any of those fancy weapons?

The earliest-known iron artifacts are nine small beads dated to 3200 BC, which were found in burials at Gerzeh, Lower Egypt. They have been identified as meteoric iron shaped by careful hammering.[4] Meteoric iron, a characteristic iron–nickel alloy, was used by various ancient peoples thousands of years before the Iron Age. Such iron, being in its native metallic state, required no smelting of ores.[5][6]

Smelted iron appears sporadically in the archeological record from the middle Bronze Age. Whilst terrestrial iron is naturally abundant, its high melting point of 1,538 °C (2,800 °F) placed it out of reach of common use until the end of the second millennium BC. Tin's low melting point of 231.9 °C (449.4 °F) and copper's relatively moderate melting point of 1,085 °C (1,985 °F) placed them within the capabilities of the Neolithic pottery kilns, which date back to 6000 BC and were able to produce temperatures greater than 900 °C (1,650 °F).[7] In addition to specially designed furnaces, ancient iron production needed to develop complex procedures for the removal of impurities, the regulation of the admixture of carbon, and for hot-working to achieve a useful balance of hardness and strength in steel.

The earliest tentative evidence for iron-making is a small number of iron fragments with the appropriate amounts of carbon admixture found in the Proto-Hittite layers at Kaman-Kalehöyük and dated to 2200–2000 BC. Akanuma (2008) concludes that "The combination of carbon dating, archaeological context, and archaeometallurgical examination indicates that it is likely that the use of ironware made of steel had already begun in the third millennium BC in Central Anatolia".[8] Souckova-Siegolová (2001) shows that iron implements were made in Central Anatolia in very limited quantities around 1800 BC and were in general use by elites, though not by commoners, during the New Hittite Empire (∼1400–1200 BC).[9]

Your biblical quote only points to the Sumerian texts as a source. Nothing about either speaks to being true.

 

[Berzerker]

the weapons were made by a god, iron was new to man...it doesn't say man made the weapons

about the coin

https://drmsh.com/michaelsheiser/byblosrocket.html

I think thats the sitchiniswrong guy, he seems to think the coin exists

---------------------------------------------

Researchers with the University of Cincinnati found evidence of a cosmic airburst at 11 Hopewell archeological sites in three states stretching across the Ohio River Valley. This was home to the Ohio Hopewell, part of a notable Native American culture found across much of the American East.

The comet's glancing pass rained debris down into the Earth's atmosphere, creating a fiery explosion. UC archeologists used radiocarbon and typological dating to determine the age of the event.

The airburst affected an area bigger than New Jersey, setting fires across 9,200 square miles between the years A.D. 252 and 383. This coincides with a period when 69 near-Earth comets were observed and documented by Chinese astronomers and witnessed by Native Americans as told through their oral histories.

https://phys.org/news/2022-02-comet-fiery-destruction-downfall-ancient.html

 

[Birdjaguar]

the weapons were made by a god, iron was new to man...it doesn't say man made the weapons

about the coin

https://drmsh.com/michaelsheiser/byblosrocket.html

I think thats the sitchiniswrong guy, he seems to think the coin exists

---------------------------------------------

Researchers with the University of Cincinnati found evidence of a cosmic airburst at 11 Hopewell archeological sites in three states stretching across the Ohio River Valley. This was home to the Ohio Hopewell, part of a notable Native American culture found across much of the American East.

The comet's glancing pass rained debris down into the Earth's atmosphere, creating a fiery explosion. UC archeologists used radiocarbon and typological dating to determine the age of the event.

The airburst affected an area bigger than New Jersey, setting fires across 9,200 square miles between the years A.D. 252 and 383. This coincides with a period when 69 near-Earth comets were observed and documented by Chinese astronomers and witnessed by Native Americans as told through their oral histories.

https://phys.org/news/2022-02-comet-fiery-destruction-downfall-ancient.html

Yes, I think it is him too. Maybe the coin does exist, or he is just using Sitchin's drawing. He also concurs that it is not a rocket. The comet story is interesting. I'm still wondering why Nibiru hasn't shown up at its appointed times. It's been well over 3600 years; more like 7000.

 

[Berzerker]

There is a peculiar nature to a certain class of myth, that of the disappearing God promising to return. Now Sitchin thinks the disappearances and returns are the result of a planet following a highly elliptical orbit and he thinks - as of the 12th Planet publication anyway - about 3800 BC. Something about the origins of the Hebrew calendar and the rise of Sumer and kingship being granted to mankind.

That would make 200 BC the most recent passage.

According to Hebrew time reckoning we are now in the 6th millennium. The Hebrew year count starts in year 3761 BCE, which the 12th-century Jewish philosopher Maimonides established as the biblical Date of Creation.

Years in the Jewish calendar are designated AM to identify them as part of the Anno Mundi epoch, indicating the age of the world according to the Bible. For example, the beginning of the year 2022 in the Gregorian calendar converts to year AM 5782 in the Jewish calendar.

So year 6000 and/or year 7000 might be significant, thats 218 years to 6000 (AD 2240) and 1218 to 7000 (AD 3240). The last passage would either be 1360 BC and 360 BC if there is a connection.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

Which does not address Birdjaguar's observation that Nibiru is late by quite a number of thousands of years.

Maybe the Vogons got it!

Maybe it accidentally got swept up in some Doctor Who event!




Or more likely, it doesn't exist and never did.

 

[PhroX]

Many ancient statues and artworks from across the world feature prominent male genetalia. From this, we have no choice but to conclude that the concept of the penis was brought to us by aliens.