Atlantis: What is it all about?

[Samson]

Many ancient statues and artworks from across the world feature prominent male genetalia. From this, we have no choice but to conclude that the concept of the penis was brought to us by aliens.

That would explain its aesthetics.

 

[Birdjaguar]

That would make 200 BC the most recent passage.

Any yet no one has any record of such a passage. Why isn't it recorded all across the world? The planets were all well known. A new one coming close by would be noticed? I would think that the comings and goings of Nibiru space ships would also be of note.

 

[Berzerker]

Which does not address Birdjaguar's observation that Nibiru is late by quite a number of thousands of years.

Maybe the Vogons got it!

Maybe it accidentally got swept up in some Doctor Who event!

Or more likely, it doesn't exist and never did.

We dont know that it was late, we dont know its last passage and how it was recorded. The lotus in Egyptian myth gives us a clue about Nibiru - the lotus blooms on water, a metaphor for how life was brought to a world covered by water and the petals of the lotus represent Nibiru's precessing elliptical orbit. So with each passage Nibiru's retrograde orbit forms 1 petal and over the course of repeated orbits it forms the lotus.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apsid...the Solar,them nearly circular and stationary.

So aspidal precession advances in the direction of the object's orbit, therefore Nibiru on a retrograde orbit will be advancing the opposite to the planets. That means Nibiru will reappear at roughly the same angles to the invariable, ecliptic, and solar equatorial planes, but it will also advance thru our sky, thru our zodiac faster than if it had a prograde orbit. If it appeared last in one constellation it may appear with a different one the next time. I'm sure if this theory is right research into Nibiru might turn up information.

Anyway, something has tilted our solar system. The planets should be orbiting the sun's equatorial plane. They dont, the planets are 6+ degrees off line - we have another member of the solar system with an inclined orbit, something large enough to alter the orbits of the planets and something that probably doesn't hang around on the distant fringes of the solar system.

There's too much evidence this something has entered the solar system causing disruptions along its path. Pluto and the Kuiper Belt (a debris trail), Neptune and its moon Triton, Uranus on its side, Saturn and its rings, and Jupiter - the first planet in line to swallow up gas and dust from a collision at the asteroid belt. And of course then we have the asteroid belt, another debris trail.

Many ancient statues and artworks from across the world feature prominent male genetalia. From this, we have no choice but to conclude that the concept of the penis was brought to us by aliens.

you mean a pointus... thats the temple of Astarte, she's a chick

Any yet no one has any record of such a passage. Why isn't it recorded all across the world? The planets were all well known. A new one coming close by would be noticed? I would think that the comings and goings of Nibiru space ships would also be of note.

According to the mythology of the disappearing gods they'll be back. As for Nibiru, I know how we can find evidence it exists. We can run computer simulations with the following parameters, a dense planet 2-5x the mass of the Earth with perihelion at the asteroid belt and a 3600 year retrograde, inclined orbit, say ~52 degrees, the slope of the Great Pyramid. Assume the planets start with orbits around the sun's equatorial plane and run the program. Will that planet move the others off the sun's equatorial plane? I would expect it to. As for records of the planet's last perihelion, I'm sure it was recorded but finding the record and interpreting it is another matter.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

We dont know that it was late, we dont know its last passage and how it was recorded. The lotus in Egyptian myth gives us a clue about Nibiru - the lotus blooms on water, a metaphor for how life was brought to a world covered by water and the petals of the lotus represent Nibiru's precessing elliptical orbit. So with each passage Nibiru's retrograde orbit forms 1 petal and over the course of repeated orbits it forms the lotus.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apsidal_precession#:~:text=Each planet orbiting the Sun,over time (apsidal precession).&text=Most orbits in the Solar,them nearly circular and stationary.

So aspidal precession advances in the direction of the object's orbit, therefore Nibiru on a retrograde orbit will be advancing the opposite to the planets. That means Nibiru will reappear at roughly the same angles to the invariable, ecliptic, and solar equatorial planes, but it will also advance thru our sky, thru our zodiac faster than if it had a prograde orbit. If it appeared last in one constellation it may appear with a different one the next time. I'm sure if this theory is right research into Nibiru might turn up information.

Anyway, something has tilted our solar system. The planets should be orbiting the sun's equatorial plane. They dont, the planets are 6+ degrees off line - we have another member of the solar system with an inclined orbit, something large enough to alter the orbits of the planets and something that probably doesn't hang around on the distant fringes of the solar system.

There's too much evidence this something has entered the solar system causing disruptions along its path. Pluto and the Kuiper Belt (a debris trail), Neptune and its moon Triton, Uranus on its side, Saturn and its rings, and Jupiter - the first planet in line to swallow up gas and dust from a collision at the asteroid belt. And of course then we have the asteroid belt, another debris trail.



you mean a pointus... thats the temple of Astarte, she's a chick



According to the mythology of the disappearing gods they'll be back. As for Nibiru, I know how we can find evidence it exists. We can run computer simulations with the following parameters, a dense planet 2-5x the mass of the Earth with perihelion at the asteroid belt and a 3600 year retrograde, inclined orbit, say ~52 degrees, the slope of the Great Pyramid. Assume the planets start with orbits around the sun's equatorial plane and run the program. Will that planet move the others off the sun's equatorial plane? I would expect it to. As for records of the planet's last perihelion, I'm sure it was recorded but finding the record and interpreting it is another matter.

Berzerker, this may come as a shock, but the fact is that I trust Birdjaguar's math more than I trust yours. Afer all, you keep insisting you see Louis Vuitton handbags on rocks, many millennia before Vuitton or his fashion was created or even imagined.

You must be the strongest human ever, from moving so many goal posts during the last however many decades you've been preaching this stuff and getting called on it.

Even the Great Pumpkin makes more sense.

 

[Berzerker]

Randall Carlson on Joe Rogan

Interesting theory, the Azores were allegedly above water and when the ice melted the rebounding land and the weight shifting to the Atlantic in the form of several hundred feet of water caused a depression of the Azore plateau - a day of earthquakes and sinking into the sea. Carlson was on Rogan for 3 hours and he has his own podcast. He also gives an update on the Younger Dryas Impact theory etc.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

So with each passage Nibiru's retrograde orbit forms 1 petal and over the course of repeated orbits it forms the lotus.

So eventually we're going to get a giant flower orbiting the Sun.

That won't be good. I'm allergic to flowers, and have never thought lotuses particularly attractive.

Teapots are more useful.

 

[Birdjaguar]

Randall Carlson on Joe Rogan

Interesting theory, the Azores were allegedly above water and when the ice melted the rebounding land and the weight shifting to the Atlantic in the form of several hundred feet of water caused a depression of the Azore plateau - a day of earthquakes and sinking into the sea. Carlson was on Rogan for 3 hours and he has his own podcast. He also gives an update on the Younger Dryas Impact theory etc.

Randall Carlson is an idiot. He is just making stuff up while pretending he is being scientific.

 

[Harv]

Berzerker, this may come as a shock, but the fact is that I trust

It has been a long time since we talked. This is a place where I respect your lack of nonsense.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

There's too much evidence this something has entered the solar system causing disruptions along its path. Pluto and the Kuiper Belt (a debris trail), Neptune and its moon Triton, Uranus on its side, Saturn and its rings, and Jupiter - the first planet in line to swallow up gas and dust from a collision at the asteroid belt. And of course then we have the asteroid belt, another debris trail.

This "something" you insist is a planet for which not a shred of evidence exists is not responsible for Saturn's rings, or even Jupiter's rings (Jupiter has rings; I don't recall if you mentioned that; they're very faint). If one of their moons gets too close to the Roche Limit, they break up and become debris orbiting the planet.

As for Nibiru, I know how we can find evidence it exists. We can run computer simulations with the following parameters, a dense planet 2-5x the mass of the Earth with perihelion at the asteroid belt and a 3600 year retrograde, inclined orbit, say ~52 degrees, the slope of the Great Pyramid. Assume the planets start with orbits around the sun's equatorial plane and run the program. Will that planet move the others off the sun's equatorial plane? I would expect it to. As for records of the planet's last perihelion, I'm sure it was recorded but finding the record and interpreting it is another matter.

Now why didn't NASA or JPL or even Carl Sagan think of that? You'd better shoot them an email so they get on it (well, not Sagan; he's dead).

So eventually we're going to get a giant flower orbiting the Sun.

I should have added that I find it highly unlikely that a giant flower orbiting the Sun would last very long unless it's also sitting in a pond filled with water. So I guess we're going to get a giant pond containing this lotus, orbiting the Sun.

It has been a long time since we talked. This is a place where I respect your lack of nonsense.

Thanks!

I'm currently re-reading Jupiter, by Ben Bova. It's about a group of scientists who descend into Jupiter's atmosphere, where a previous expedition discovered a liquid layer and possible lifeforms. Giant - they'd be beyond mega-giants on Earth - creatures swim around in this layer. In one sense they're like whales, extremely large lifeforms in a planetary ocean, live in pods, are social creatures with a language... but their biology is completely different. This expedition is to verify that the lifeforms exist and if so, try to communicate with them.

 

[Berzerker]

This "something" you insist is a planet for which not a shred of evidence exists is not responsible for Saturn's rings, or even Jupiter's rings (Jupiter has rings; I don't recall if you mentioned that; they're very faint). If one of their moons gets too close to the Roche Limit, they break up and become debris orbiting the planet.

The moons that form the rings are evidence of the disruption. The question is when Saturn acquired its tilt. I would expect moons orbiting equatorial planes to have formed with the planet and moons with inclined orbits are evidence of disruption - like our Moon. But as we can see with Uranus it has moons following its equatorial plane but the planet is on its side. It didn't form like that, something big tilted it and created moons at the same time.

According to the Enuma Elish Marduk interacted with the outer planets establishing orderly destinies - orbits. Why is the solar system tilted? The researchers looking for planet 9 are trying to answer that question. They think its evidence for another planet, I do too.

Now why didn't NASA or JPL or even Carl Sagan think of that? You'd better shoot them an email so they get on it (well, not Sagan; he's dead).

Sadly Carl died before the hunt for Planet 9, but I'll bet $$$ the people looking for it are wondering why our solar system is tilted. I know they are, they dealt with this very subject on an episode of 'How the Universe Works'. Konstantin Batygin pointed to that tilt as possible evidence for another planet, but he said it was unlikely a planet that spends all its time way out there beyond the Kuiper Belt, he said it had to be rather large and on an inclined elliptical orbit.

We're getting there Zecharia

I should have added that I find it highly unlikely that a giant flower orbiting the Sun would last very long unless it's also sitting in a pond filled with water. So I guess we're going to get a giant pond containing this lotus, orbiting the Sun.

Myths contain metaphors and I think you know that, so why are you playing like you dont?

 

[Valka D'Ur]

The moons that form the rings are evidence of the disruption. The question is when Saturn acquired its tilt. I would expect moons orbiting equatorial planes to have formed with the planet and moons with inclined orbits are evidence of disruption - like our Moon. But as we can see with Uranus it has moons following its equatorial plane but the planet is on its side. It didn't form like that, something big tilted it and created moons at the same time.

Uh-huh. Yes, I know Uranus is at an odd tilt and something catastrophic happened to it. Collisions happened in the early solar system. If that created the moons, so what? Earth acquired our Moon via a collision. We didn't need your mythical gold-mining, Louis Vuitton handbag-using aliens for that.

According to the Enuma Elish Marduk interacted with the outer planets establishing orderly destinies - orbits. Why is the solar system tilted? The researchers looking for planet 9 are trying to answer that question. They think its evidence for another planet, I do too.

Which researchers, exactly? Do they have any standing with NASA/JPL?

Here's the thing: The Enuma Elish is not a science text, any more than the bible, koran, or other religious works are.

Here's another thing: You like having seasons, I hope? Our planet would be very different if we didn't have an axial tilt. Be grateful for it.

Sadly Carl died before the hunt for Planet 9, but I'll bet $$$ the people looking for it are wondering why our solar system is tilted. I know they are, they dealt with this very subject on an episode of 'How the Universe Works'. Konstantin Batygin pointed to that tilt as possible evidence for another planet, but he said it was unlikely a planet that spends all its time way out there beyond the Kuiper Belt, he said it had to be rather large and on an inclined elliptical orbit.

Link?

We're getting there Zecharia

Why haven't you approached one of those insanely rich people who are building rockets and whatever, to build you a ship so you can go look for this planet? They wouldn't since they would see no profit in it, but you wouldn't know if you never try.

Myths contain metaphors and I think you know that, so why are you playing like you dont?

You're so insistent that all of this nonsense is real, you keep moving multiple goal posts to convince us it's real, so I'm trying to understand how a giant lotus could be orbiting the Sun. You say it's there. I just want to understand the science of how a water-dwelling plant could manage this.

Just because I read science fiction and fantasy doesn't mean I don't keep them separate from real life. Sagan loved Edgar Rice Burroughs books when he was a child. But he grew up to understand that science isn't what you want to be true. It's what holds up to the rigorous examination required by the scientific theory. And if something turns out to be wrong, it's tossed in favor of the new and more accurate knowledge.

 

[Berzerker]

Uh-huh. Yes, I know Uranus is at an odd tilt and something catastrophic happened to it. Collisions happened in the early solar system. If that created the moons, so what? Earth acquired our Moon via a collision.

Wouldn't it take a large object to tilt Uranus and at the same time create debris trails and moons around it? Our Moon's orbit is tilted, thats another mystery. Wanna guess how they're going about solving it?

https://www.science.org/content/article/how-moon-got-its-tilt-and-earth-got-its-gold

What's more, says Pahlevan, some of the mini-planets crashed into Earth at some point in those simulations—impacts that would have delivered iridium, gold and platinum, among other elements. The proportions of those metals are unusually high in Earth's crust, which many scientists have tried to explain with models of an impact-delivered "late veneer" that came after Earth's formation. According to some models of planetary formation, the metals would have sunk to Earth's core when much of the planet's iron did, which means that new supplies had to come later in order for them to be found in the crust in such relatively high abundances.

Those impacts were small individually, but together the objects would have totaled between 60% and 120% the mass of the moon, the researchers report online today in Nature. Based on the known average cosmic abundance of various elements, that's plenty enough material to explain the anomalous concentrations of the metals now present in Earth's crust, they say.

The Moon should orbit within a degree of Earth's equatorial plane, but its a bit over 5 degrees off. That is evidence of disruption 'after' the Moon forming collision. So when did the Earth acquire a crust rich in heavy metals? About 4 billion years ago, shortly before we have evidence of plate tectonics and life. Something(s) hit a world with a thick crust covered by a very deep ocean and left the crime scene splattered (channeling Dexter) with rock and water/ice - the asteroid belt. Now we have a thinner cracked crust, like an egg. The cosmic egg.

Which researchers, exactly? Do they have any standing with NASA/JPL?

Konstantin Batygin, I think his partner is Mike Brown but there's a few people looking for planet 9

Here's the thing: The Enuma Elish is not a science text, any more than the bible, koran, or other religious works are.

it reads like one if you understand its talking about celestial events involving planets and moons. The Bible says the world before creation was covered by water. Yeah, thats true.

Link?

You want a link to an episode of How the Universe Works? Idk if utube has the series or which episode, maybe dark side of the solar system. sorry

Why haven't you approached one of those insanely rich people who are building rockets and whatever, to build you a ship so you can go look for this planet? They wouldn't since they would see no profit in it, but you wouldn't know if you never try.

People did that a long time ago, God became very angry and destroyed the tower to reach heaven and dispersed the people building it.

You're so insistent that all of this nonsense is real, you keep moving multiple goal posts to convince us it's real, so I'm trying to understand how a giant lotus could be orbiting the Sun. You say it's there. I just want to understand the science of how a water-dwelling plant could manage this.

The lotus symbolizes god, a planet with an elliptical orbit around the sun. As the planet makes multiple orbits the map it produces looks like a lotus. The symbol permeates myth.

 

[Birdjaguar]

Wouldn't it take a large object to tilt Uranus and at the same time create debris trails and moons around it? Our Moon's orbit is tilted, thats another mystery. Wanna guess how they're going about solving it?

https://www.science.org/content/article/how-moon-got-its-tilt-and-earth-got-its-gold

The Moon should orbit within a degree of Earth's equatorial plane, but its a bit over 5 degrees off. That is evidence of disruption 'after' the Moon forming collision. So when did the Earth acquire a crust rich in heavy metals? About 4 billion years ago, shortly before we have evidence of plate tectonics and life. Something(s) hit a world with a thick crust covered by a very deep ocean and left the crime scene splattered (channeling Dexter) with rock and water/ice - the asteroid belt. Now we have a thinner cracked crust, like an egg. The cosmic egg.

Your link is about modeling how the moon's tilt of 5 degrees might have changed from the expected 1 degree.

The article makes no mention of an earth covered in water; the article does not place the earth out near Jupiter. In addition, the model used small objects as the force for change. You have made up that all this would apply to tilting a large gas giant planet. As usual, you are just trying to fit the science selectively to what you want the solution to be. Science works differently. It uses the data to define the solution. The is no science to what Sitchin has proposed: humanoids living on a planet with an orbit of 3600 years most of which is far far outside of our solar system; A spacefaring civ without iron, living in an oxygen based atmosphere dependent upon gold to remain viable; a civ that occupied earth for 400,000 years and left no traces other than a Sumerian creation myth. Conveniently, as soon as humans could keep track of the night sky and chart the planets, this mysterious planet changed its orbit so it is 6000 years late for its expected rendezvous with earth.

 

[El_Machinae]

There is no science to what Sitchin has proposed: humanoids living on a planet with an orbit of 3600 years most of which is far far outside of our solar system; A spacefaring civ without iron, living in an oxygen based atmosphere dependent upon gold to remain viable; a civ that occupied earth for 400,000 years and left no traces other than a Sumerian creation myth. Conveniently, as soon as humans could keep track of the night sky and chart the planets, this mysterious planet changed its orbit so it is 6000 years late for its expected rendezvous with earth.

So, haven't been paying attention to the thread at all.

How much of this is a reasonably accurate summary of the actual author's viewpoints?

That's an amazing amount of detail and so bonkers

 

[Birdjaguar]

@El_Machinae It is a pretty good summary. I did leave out that the Anunnaki genetically altered homo erectus into homo sapiens so they could mine Earth's gold to fix their planets atmosphere.

Here is the history of Earth timeline Sitchin established.

https://www.sitchinstudies.com/anunnaki-timeline.html

 

[Valka D'Ur]

Wouldn't it take a large object to tilt Uranus and at the same time create debris trails and moons around it? Our Moon's orbit is tilted, thats another mystery. Wanna guess how they're going about solving it?

https://www.science.org/content/article/how-moon-got-its-tilt-and-earth-got-its-gold



The Moon should orbit within a degree of Earth's equatorial plane, but its a bit over 5 degrees off. That is evidence of disruption 'after' the Moon forming collision. So when did the Earth acquire a crust rich in heavy metals? About 4 billion years ago, shortly before we have evidence of plate tectonics and life. Something(s) hit a world with a thick crust covered by a very deep ocean and left the crime scene splattered (channeling Dexter) with rock and water/ice - the asteroid belt. Now we have a thinner cracked crust, like an egg. The cosmic egg.

Your linked article doesn't have one syllable in it about Uranus.

No, I don't "wanna guess" about this stuff.

I have no idea what you mean by "channeling Dexter."

Earth is not the only geologically active place in the solar system.

Konstantin Batygin, I think his partner is Mike Brown but there's a few people looking for planet 9

Okay, I've probably seen him in one of the documentaries on BBC Earth.

it reads like one if you understand its talking about celestial events involving planets and moons. The Bible says the world before creation was covered by water. Yeah, thats true.

The bible is not a science text.

You want a link to an episode of How the Universe Works? Idk if utube has the series or which episode, maybe dark side of the solar system. sorry

I found some. It would help to know which one, since I don't have endless hours to spend on this. And I'm more inclined to watch something hosted by Brian Cox than anyone else.

People did that a long time ago, God became very angry and destroyed the tower to reach heaven and dispersed the people building it.

Your evidence for this?

The lotus symbolizes god, a planet with an elliptical orbit around the sun. As the planet makes multiple orbits the map it produces looks like a lotus. The symbol permeates myth.

God is a planet with an elliptical orbit around the Sun? TIL...

I just googled images of lotuses. They don't remind me in any way of diagrams of planetary orbits.

 

[Berzerker]

rock art ranch, Winslow Az

the image center right with arms forming half a 'swastika', 4 fingers down and 5 fingers up

The Nasca Monkey peering down between his hands, 4 fingers on one, 5 on the other

The Nasca 'hand', 4 fingers on one, 5 on the other

and the Incan Genesis

the last image we see Viracocha depicted as an ellipse connecting or dividing 4 'stars' below and 5 above.

The top image has an ellipse shaped being with 4 fingers pointing down and 5 up

our solar system is divided in two at the asteroid belt, 4 planets below, 5 above.

9 Mile Canyon... The Indians on the right are the Creator and its moons and the sheep above are the planets with the sheep below representing the forces of the horned deity in the middle - at the asteroid belt - right where the Enuma Elish places Tiamat.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

rock art ranch, Winslow Az

the image center right with arms forming half a 'swastika', 4 fingers down and 5 fingers up

The Nasca Monkey peering down between his hands, 4 fingers on one, 5 on the other

The Nasca 'hand', 4 fingers on one, 5 on the other

and the Incan Genesis

the last image we see Viracocha depicted as an ellipse connecting or dividing 4 'stars' below and 5 above.

The top image has an ellipse shaped being with 4 fingers pointing down and 5 up

our solar system is divided in two at the asteroid belt, 4 planets below, 5 above.

9 Mile Canyon... The Indians on the right are the Creator and its moons and the sheep above are the planets with the sheep below representing the forces of the horned deity in the middle - at the asteroid belt - right where the Enuma Elish places Tiamat.

So you're still insisting that people who had no way of seeing planets that can't be seen with the naked eye still knew about them before having contact with others with knowledge of telescopes.

Uh-huh...



And the point of this? Have you asked NDT if he believes in Nibiru? 'Cause he demoted Pluto from planethood.

 

[Berzerker]

Your link is about modeling how the moon's tilt of 5 degrees might have changed from the expected 1 degree.

The article makes no mention of an earth covered in water; the article does not place the earth out near Jupiter. In addition, the model used small objects as the force for change.

The article was about the Moon's tilted orbit and they're explaining it by claiming a bunch of material (yes, 'small' objects - just how do small objects produce heavy metals) smacked the Earth - 60-120% of the Moon's mass - depositing heavy metals in the crust. The Moon's orbit was altered by this disruption to the Earth-Moon system. I think they're right, but they argue the Moon started out 10+ degrees off and reduced to 5. They're wrong, the Moon formed in Earth's equatorial plane and about 4 billions years ago the Earth-Moon system was plastered by 'the late heavy bombardment'.

And yes, the world was covered by water before this happened. The science says so. And the science also says our water was out there at the asteroid belt. Thats why astronomers spent so much time trying to import Earth's water via comets and asteroids. But they ran into a problem, our water was older than the rocks, older than plate tectonics, older than life itself. Just like it says in the Bible.

A spacefaring civ without iron

No, we were without iron

and Sitchin said hominids were altered beginning 300,000 years ago and over time mankind was upgraded - this appears in the Bible as the story of Adam and Eve in the Garden. When the final human version appeared is another matter, the Bible says Eve's curse for the apple was to experience greater pain in childbirth (compared to whom) and evolutionary biologists say modern childbirth began 200+kya which is about when DNA studies say we emerged onto the scene.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

The article was about the Moon's tilted orbit and they're explaining it by claiming a bunch of material (yes, 'small' objects - just how do small objects produce heavy metals) smacked the Earth - 60-120% of the Moon's mass - depositing heavy metals in the crust. The Moon's orbit was altered by this disruption to the Earth-Moon system. I think they're right, but they argue the Moon started out 10+ degrees off and reduced to 5. They're wrong, the Moon formed in Earth's equatorial plane and about 4 billions years ago the Earth-Moon system was plastered by 'the late heavy bombardment'.

But you were carrying on about Uranus. The article says nothing about Uranus.

And yes, the world was covered by water before this happened. The science says so. And the science also says our water was out there at the asteroid belt. Thats why astronomers spent so much time trying to import Earth's water via comets and asteroids. But they ran into a problem, our water was older than the rocks, older than plate tectonics, older than life itself. Just like it says in the Bible.

I've read the bible. It says zip-all about plate tectonics or the asteroid belt.

No, we were without iron

That must have come as a surprise to the people who invented stuff made of iron and now I'm wondering what our blood is based on, and how we get rust.

and Sitchin said hominids were altered beginning 300,000 years ago and over time mankind was upgraded - this appears in the Bible as the story of Adam and Eve in the Garden. When the final human version appeared is another matter, the Bible says Eve's curse for the apple was to experience greater pain in childbirth (compared to whom) and evolutionary biologists say modern childbirth began 200+kya which is about when DNA studies say we emerged onto the scene.

*yawn* You've repeated this several dozen times over the years. Been there, done that, don't even bother making the t-shirt.