Atlantis: What is it all about?

[Valka D'Ur]

The Canadian Alliance Party - I thought they were called the Conservative-Reform Alliance Party. Did the acronym not stick? However what you say about the new leader of the CRAP arty is interesting. I have interacted with people who take a literal approach to the Bible and did not know these people exist in numbers. Is it possible that these people became more open and vocal over the past 20 years? (I have a theory to explain that, but it is off-topic.)

The actual changes in that party's name was as follows:

1. Reform Party
2. Canadian Alliance
3. Conservative Reform Alliance Party
4. Conservative Party of Canada

#3 only existed during the course of that one meeting when they were trying to hammer out a new name (since the Progressive Conservative Leader, Joe Clark, absolutely refused to relinquish the right to the name "Progressive Conservative" and the courts upheld this). At first they thought it was a great name... until someone realized what the acronym would spell.

However, there are quite a number of people who still refer to it as the CRAP Party in the CBC comment sections. Others refer to it as the Reformacon Party. Since you never know from day to day which of the unaccountable moderators on that site is going to take offense (they never have to account for their decision to censor a post and they don't follow their own guidelines), I coined a different term: Reform-Conservative. I did this years ago, during the 2015 federal election, and it's caught on with some people. When I'm told "there's no such party" I just tell them that I want to make it perfectly clear that I am NOT talking about the Progressive Conservatives, which is dormant federally and no longer exists in Alberta. It's really annoying how some people still think the Reformacons/UCP are still legitimately the Progressive Conservatives under another name. They aren't. They are completely different parties, and have purged the people who used to be sincere PC supporters. The UCP in Alberta was cobbled together from disaffected PCs, Wild Rose, a number of separatists, and some right-wing evangelicals who couldn't get elected under their own party banners.

And yeah, the UCP has its share of believers in a 6000-year-old Earth. I guess that's why the first version of the draft curriculum they want to push on the kids this fall omitted dinosaurs.

Okay. Apparently the subject did change. Maybe this thread has morphed into a discussion on crazy theories. So here is my theory on the rise of biblical literalism:
There has been a massive cultural shift (from a North America perspective) for as long as I have been alive and longer. One of these trends is a lot of people have stopped going to their church on Sunday. Those left behind are more fundamentalist. Boil away the water and distill the drink and make it stronger. Bottoms up, Brewserker!

This thread has never not been about crazy theories (using that word lightly, since it's not remotely being used in the sense of the scientific method).

I've rejected other beliefs? Quite the opposite, I've cited evidence from around the world with cultures supposedly separated by 20-250,000 years. Genesis - a dark water covered world preceded god. North American - all was water and darkness and the creator sent diving animals below the water to retrieve 'land' which god spread out upon the water. Same myth, same reference to plate tectonics, the land appeared from under the water and brought forth life.

If god created everything, why was there something there first? This makes as much sense as Star Trek: The Next Generation saying, "To boldly go where no one has gone before" - except they always meet someone who got there first.

Sure, life is tenacious. It survived colliding with Earth.

Do you have even the faintest idea how supernovas happen?

Kinda curious, God splits up people building a tower to reach heaven and then people on opposite sides of the world start building pyramids.

You realize that the pyramids of Egypt and the pyramids in North and South America aren't remotely the same age, right?

I dont understand how people cant see evolution in Genesis, Adam and Eve were naked, unashamed, and without the knowledge of good and evil - attributes we assign to animals

LOL, this isn't how evolution works.

 

[Berzerker]

According to Sitchin the deluge was 10,500 BCE and caused by the passage of Nibiru.

Two points here. First, Noah was 30,000 years old when the flood came and second he was the first blue-eyed, blond human. Apparently the Anunnaki (the gods) were blue-eyed blonds. Aryans? Could it be that Sitchin is a closet Nazi?

And his body was white like snow, and red like the flower of a rose, and the hair of his head was white like wool. And his eyes were beautiful and when he opened his eyes he made the whole house bright, like the Sun, so that the whole house was exceptionally bright.

106.3 And when he was taken from the hand of the midwife he opened his mouth and spoke to the Lord of Righteousness.

106.4 And his father Lamech was afraid of him, and fled, and went to his father Methuselah.

106.5 And he said to him: ”I have begotten a strange son; he is not like a man but is like the children of the Angels of Heaven, of a different type and not like us. And his eyes are like the rays of the Sun and his face glorious.

106.6 And it seems to me that he is not sprung from me but from the Angels and I am afraid that something extraordinary may be done on the earth in his days.

Some people think he was albino... or Jews built their religion around the first Nazi

And here is the true story of Adam and Eve adn Cain and Abel.

I do not understand why the Bible and Enuma Elish failed to capture all these spicy details. And if Adam and Eve were born 100,000 years ago, the earth certainly can't be just 6000 years old.

According to Sitchin, evolution only got as far as homo erectus (400,000 years ago) and then the Anunnaki took over. Our genetics began 100.000 years ago when EN.KI had sex with human women and Adam was born. He was mated with EVE, some random human female, to begin the human genetic line. No tree of knowledge needed. Adam was educated on Nibiru.

Same reasons they edited down the Enuma Elish to a few lines, brevity and monotheism. Thx for tracking down Sitchin's estimate for Adam, and no, the Earth is not 6000 years old. Sitchin doesn't claim evolution ended, homo erectus was living in Indonesia relatively recently and people migrating out of Africa encountered earlier peoples.

He dates "us" to about 300,000 kya, but he also claims early Lulu (primitive workers) were hybrids who could not procreate. Its possible the Garden story is relating another detail from the Sumerians, the power to procreate, hence the figleaves and Eve's curse.

 

[Berzerker]

If god created everything, why was there something there first? This makes as much sense as Star Trek: The Next Generation saying, "To boldly go where no one has gone before" - except they always meet someone who got there first.

Do you have even the faintest idea how supernovas happen?

You realize that the pyramids of Egypt and the pyramids in North and South America aren't remotely the same age, right?

LOL, this isn't how evolution works.

God didn't create everything, the waters were first and God made Heaven and Earth - Heaven is the firmament and Earth is the dry land. And as we can see from Genesis, the land appeared from under the waters. Stars fuse iron and blow up. Any life in the solar system that survives gets a ride to a new home. If evolution doesn't work that way, how does it work? And yes, pyramids were being built in Egypt and Peru 2600 bc.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

God didn't create everything, the waters were first and God made Heaven and Earth - Heaven is the firmament and Earth is the dry land. And as we can see from Genesis, the land appeared from under the waters. Stars fuse iron and blow up. Any life in the solar system that survives gets a ride to a new home. If evolution doesn't work that way, how does it work? And yes, pyramids were being built in Egypt and Peru 2600 bc.

Oh, do explain stellar evolution and the life cycle of stars to me. Please. I've only been studying that for 45+ years, so what do I know?

No, life isn't going to survive a supernova. Molecules that have the potential to create amino acids? Sure. But they're not real life. They might eventually be part of a living organism some day, or they might never be. And not all stars blow up as supernovae. Our Sun won't.

 

[Sarin]

God didn't create everything, the waters were first and God made Heaven and Earth - Heaven is the firmament and Earth is the dry land. And as we can see from Genesis, the land appeared from under the waters. Stars fuse iron and blow up. Any life in the solar system that survives gets a ride to a new home. If evolution doesn't work that way, how does it work? And yes, pyramids were being built in Egypt and Peru 2600 bc.

Any life that survives being first cooked to thousands of degrees Celsius and subjected to massive radiation burst, then millions to billions of years in hard vacuum bombarded by ambient space radiation, you mean.

Evolution and origin of life are a bit different topics. While evolution is scientifically proved, abiogenesis is still mostly theoretical concept-we know a few ways it could work, on paper, but experimental phase is still inconclusive. And if you are really interested in how evolution woks, I recommend vast amount of scientific literature written about it.

BTW, as I pointed out, pyramids were a fad that was springing up all over the world over the ages, for a damn good reason. If you don't have a good knowledge of architecture, pyramidal structures are your only way of building something big and impressive. So there's no wonder that couple of sites date to roughly same era.

 

[Birdjaguar]

God didn't create everything, the waters were first and God made Heaven and Earth

Please explain this cosmology. God shows up after creation starts? God only creates bits and pieces of stuff? I thought the Anunnaki were your Gods? That is what Sitchin says.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Question, why are you guys arguing with a guy who believes that a planet that cools down from it's molten lava state is covered with water before land appears?

 

[Berzerker]

Oh, do explain stellar evolution and the life cycle of stars to me. Please. I've only been studying that for 45+ years, so what do I know?

No, life isn't going to survive a supernova. Molecules that have the potential to create amino acids? Sure. But they're not real life. They might eventually be part of a living organism some day, or they might never be. And not all stars blow up as supernovae. Our Sun won't.

You asked what causes supernovas and now you're complaining because I answered. Planets can survive a supernova and they think this is a source for rogue planets. The star loses mass and the explosion ejects planets, I assume along the system's equatorial plane. Stars that dont explode are better at retaining their planets, like ours will after the red giant phase.

https://arxiv.org/abs/2101.08033#:~:text=A planet hardly ever survives,the planet to be ejected.

"A planet hardly ever survives the supernova of the host star in a bound orbit, because mass loss in the supernova and the natal kick imparted to the newly formed compact object cause the planet to be ejected."

Supernovas require larger stars with shorter lifespans and that means less time for life to develop and panspermia still doesn't explain how life began, but I can see supernovas as life's super spreaders. I expect life on Earth to survive buried deep in the crust or upper mantle if the future lake of fire (red giant) doesn't swallow it, but we aint going anywhere regardless. The Earth could be orbiting a white dwarf/black dwarf until the end of the universe.

Any life that survives being first cooked to thousands of degrees Celsius and subjected to massive radiation burst, then millions to billions of years in hard vacuum bombarded by ambient space radiation, you mean.

Planets can survive supernovas, therefore life can survive too.

Evolution and origin of life are a bit different topics. While evolution is scientifically proved, abiogenesis is still mostly theoretical concept-we know a few ways it could work, on paper, but experimental phase is still inconclusive. And if you are really interested in how evolution woks, I recommend vast amount of scientific literature written about it.

BTW, as I pointed out, pyramids were a fad that was springing up all over the world over the ages, for a damn good reason. If you don't have a good knowledge of architecture, pyramidal structures are your only way of building something big and impressive. So there's no wonder that couple of sites date to roughly same era.

Over the ages pyramid building spread, diffused. People didn't walk from Africa to Peru to build pyramids without building them along the way. According to Genesis people built a city and tower to reach Heaven and were dispersed by God, thereby confusing their language. Maybe thats why coastal Indians of Peru called the land Biru, the word isn't Quechuan (Nibiru was the Sumerian creator). I dont think people from the Tower were dropped off at Giza, but Peru? Yeah, I can see that. A Ponca legend says they were brought here with their dogs on thunderbirds, a common motif in N American myth.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

Question, why are you guys arguing with a guy who believes that a planet that cools down from it's molten lava state is covered with water before land appears?

Because someone is wrong on the internet. Isn't that why most of us argue here, on all sorts of topics?

You asked what causes supernovas and now you're complaining because I answered. Planets can survive a supernova and they think this is a source for rogue planets. The star loses mass and the explosion ejects planets, I assume along the system's equatorial plane. Stars that dont explode are better at retaining their planets, like ours will after the red giant phase.

Sarcasm. It is a difficult concept... /Saavik, Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan (paraphrased)

https://arxiv.org/abs/2101.08033#:~:text=A planet hardly ever survives,the planet to be ejected.

"A planet hardly ever survives the supernova of the host star in a bound orbit, because mass loss in the supernova and the natal kick imparted to the newly formed compact object cause the planet to be ejected."

Supernovas require larger stars with shorter lifespans and that means less time for life to develop and panspermia still doesn't explain how life began, but I can see supernovas as life's super spreaders. I expect life on Earth to survive buried deep in the crust or upper mantle if the future lake of fire (red giant) doesn't swallow it, but we aint going anywhere regardless. The Earth could be orbiting a white dwarf/black dwarf until the end of the universe.

Actually, the timeframe for life on Earth (time remaining) is projected at somewhere in the neighborhood of 500-600 million years before climate and lack of plate tectonics render conditions impossible to sustain life. It's likely that Earth will become the Sun's snack at some point during the red giant phase. Mars might be spared. Some planetary scientists have hypothesized that at this point whatever life might be frozen in/on the moons of Jupiter and Saturn will have its turn to live, accomplish what it can (not saying it would be intelligent life, but given the weird conditions out there, who knows what could happen), and then die off.

It's amusing that you seem sure that humans will still be around by that point. If we ever get off this planet and out into the galaxy, we have a chance to survive and retain our humanity. If we stay and never leave, we will become extinct.

Planets can survive supernovas, therefore life can survive too.

Link to where an exoplanet exists that has survived its primary going supernova, please. Supernovae are the result of very hot, very young, very massive stars burning their fuel much, much faster than smaller stars. The Sun is not massive enough to become a supernova. But take the example of Vega - young, hot, massive, less than a billion years old. Some years ago there was an article in which the astronomers said they were detecting the beginnings of planetary formation. Vega is only 26 light-years away, so studying it is basically seeing it as it is, not as it was in the remote past. In the life cycle of a star, 26 years is like real-time. It might live long enough to form proper planets. It won't live long enough for any of them to produce anything more than basic life. Learning this has rendered a hell of a lot of science fiction obsolete, including the original Star Trek series. If Kirk goes to Rigel, he won't find intelligent life there. He might not even find planets.

Over the ages pyramid building spread, diffused. People didn't walk from Africa to Peru to build pyramids without building them along the way. According to Genesis people built a city and tower to reach Heaven and were dispersed by God, thereby confusing their language. Maybe thats why coastal Indians of Peru called the land Biru, the word isn't Quechuan (Nibiru was the Sumerian creator). I dont think people from the Tower were dropped off at Giza, but Peru? Yeah, I can see that. A Ponca legend says they were brought here with their dogs on thunderbirds, a common motif in N American myth.

Hm. I bet if I dropped this into the conversation on tomorrow's Wauquikuna livestream (Fabian Salazar is from Ecuador and his first language is Quechua), everyone there would wonder what drugs I'm on.

Pyramids are a concept that occurred to multiple civilizations independently. They're based on math, which contrary to some notions, is something that ancient and classical civilizations were good at. No space aliens were required.

 

[Birdjaguar]

Question, why are you guys arguing with a guy who believes that a planet that cools down from it's molten lava state is covered with water before land appears?

Because it goes hand in hand with Sitchin, space faring aliens creating humans, the planet Nibiru and its 3600 year orbit, and the soap opera lifestyle of all the Anunnaki gods. And there is proof that all this is true in a single Sumerian cylinder seal (out of thousands found) that has been misunderstood by a man who could not translate cuneiform, so he could make money. What's not to like?

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Yeah, I don't know what I was thinking back there.

 

[João III]

And there is proof that all this is true in a single Sumerian cylinder seal (out of thousands found) that has been misunderstood by a man who could not translate cuneiform, so he could make money. What's not to like?

Wait, maybe this is how Sitchin translated it?

 

[Lexicus]

Planets can survive supernovas, therefore life can survive too.

No

 

[Thorvald of Lym]

Question, why are you guys arguing with a guy who believes that a planet that cools down from it's molten lava state is covered with water before land appears?

Obligatory "Is lava wet?".

 

[Berzerker]

Please explain this cosmology. God shows up after creation starts? God only creates bits and pieces of stuff? I thought the Anunnaki were your Gods? That is what Sitchin says.

The Anunnaki are the aliens who came here ~450,000 years ago. The planet of creation (Nibiru) showed up about 4 bya and collided with the proto-Earth described in Gen 1:2. A dark, water covered world encountered God's 'wind' (the same word is used in the Enuma Elish) and there was light and the separation into night and day, the proto-Earth was spinning.

God created Heaven and Earth, Heaven was formed on the 2nd day and refers to the firmament or 'hammered bracelet' where Marduk cleaved Tiamat in two. Earth is the dry land revealed from under the waters below the sky on the 3rd day. On the 4th the Sun, Moon and lights/stars/etc give light upon the Earth (dry land) with the Sun and Moon dominating day and night. The Earth's orbit was now closer to the Sun.

Question, why are you guys arguing with a guy who believes that a planet that cools down from it's molten lava state is covered with water before land appears?

Why cant molten lava be covered by water? The oldest terrestrial material we've found are zircon crystals that formed in water ~4.4 bya. Where is the land? Under water right where Genesis puts it in Gen 1:2.

 

[EnglishEdward]

It can be, but not for long.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pillow_lava

It glassificies/solidifies and becomes a pillow.

 

[Birdjaguar]

The Anunnaki are the aliens who came here ~450,000 years ago.

OK, got it.

The planet of creation (Nibiru) showed up about 4 bya and collided with the proto-Earth...

OK; two proto planets collided. No people around yet.

...described in Gen 1:2.

I don't think Geneis 1:2 says anything about planets colliding.

A dark, water covered world encountered God's 'wind' (the same word is used in the Enuma Elish) and there was light and the separation into night and day, the proto-Earth was spinning.

Who is this God and what is "God's wind"? and when did this happen in relation to Nibiru's passing above? Same time approximately?

What is the knowledge pathway from the events of 4 bya to the Enuma Elish?
Genesis 1:2

1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.
7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.
8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.

 

[Birdjaguar]

I dont know when the Tower of Babel happened. It was after the Garden and the Flood and the building of cities. But if people are building pyramids 2600 BC in Peru and Egypt I think the Tower event was shortly before that. I'm kinda interested in geoglyphs, its like people dispersed because of the tower started building cities and leaving images on the ground facing the sky as if an invitation for the gods to return. Like the cargo cults building mock up planes and runways to bring the sky people back.

The tsunami is of interest, Caral was abandoned 1800 bc and thats when they date the quake and tsunami. Caral istelf is on higher ground and inland but it was a coastal power that relied on a fishing industry along the same coast that was wiped out. The link I posted said people didn't return to coastal living for up to a 1000 years. That would have been 800 bc, the Nazca culture appears shortly after that.

You say that the Tower of Babel happened and then people dispersed around the world and started building pyramids. I'm curious why when they went to Peru from the Middle Est, they did not take pottery with them. Caral was a pre ceramic culture in Peru. One would think that not only would they have brought pottery, they would have brought writing too. And since they had to fly on Anunnaki spaceships to get from the ME to Peru, metal working. Have you checked the various genetic haplotypes to make sure that the ME connection to Native Americans is strong?

 

[João III]

Who is this God and what is "God's wind"? and when did this happen in relation to Nibiru's passing above? Same time approximately?

I think I can help a little. Here are some alternative English translations:

and the earth was without form or shape, with darkness over the abyss and a mighty wind sweeping over the waters—

the earth was a formless void and darkness covered the face of the deep, while a wind from God swept over the face of the waters.

I don't think Geneis 1:2 says anything about planets colliding.

I think he's saying the "proto-Earth" is described in Gen. 1:2, not a collision

 

[Lexicus]

Why cant molten lava be covered by water?

Do you know what a phase diagram is? Ever looked at one?