Atlantis: What is it all about?

[r16]

they would be indeed so . Some 40 years or so must have passed since studying them at school .

 

[FriendlyFire]

IIRC Genesis has multiple authors and the accepted version just "stacks them" one after the other. The Church long ago explained away the differences. to my knowledge there is no previous version of Genesis to the one we have now.

I only really remember that it was 4 versions that got smashed together and redacted. But I found a good summary of it online that goes into details
What I believed was theory 1, but it seems new archology shows theory 3 is most likely how the Old testerment was created.

 

[Berzerker]

Do you know what a phase diagram is? Ever looked at one?

Do you have one showing magma doesn't erupt under water? See below

It can be, but not for long.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pillow_lava

It glassificies/solidifies and becomes a pillow.

Why not long?

The massive mid-ocean ridge system is a continuous range of underwater volcanoes that wraps around the globe like seams on a baseball, stretching nearly 65,000 kilometers (40,390 miles). The majority of the system is underwater, with an average water depth to the top of the ridge of 2,500 meters (8,200 feet).

https://oceanexplorer.noaa.gov/facts/mid-ocean-ridge.html

Most of the Earth's magma erupted under water.

I don't think Geneis 1:2 says anything about planets colliding. Who is this God and what is "God's wind"? and when did this happen in relation to Nibiru's passing above? Same time approximately?

What is the knowledge pathway from the events of 4 bya to the Enuma Elish?
Genesis 1:2

Tiamat/tehom is the planet in Gen 1:2 and it was covered by darkness and water, or as the Norse said, where fire melts ice - the solar system's 'frost line'. That is the asteroid belt, the inner half is 'dry' and the outer half is 'wet'. Thats the location in our solar system where water vapor blown by the solar wind condensed to form ice.

Tiamat was split, one part became Heaven and the other Earth. Genesis puts its monotheistic touch on the story, no God but God, so the olden gods we find on the 1st tablet of the Enuma Elish are demoted to mere lights in the sky. But some of the planets still appear in Genesis. The Enuma Elish describes Marduk's path to battle Tiamat, he passed by 5 planets and Tiamat was the 6th. And now the Earth is the 7th planet, thats why the #7 is sacred.

The God is the planet Nibiru and the winds are Moons. Genesis doesn't use the plural but the Enuma Elish describes several winds, 4 came from Uranus (Anu), the gas giant orbiting on its side. The Anunnaki are the source for the knowledge. Genesis says this happened before land and life, we can date those to 3.5-3.8 bya. Shortly before that the Earth suffered thru a violent period called the late heavy bombardment ~4 bya. That was Nibiru and its moons colliding with the proto-Earth.

It was the late heavy bombardment that shredded the proto-Earth's crust leaving scant clues about the prior world. Researchers thought that meant the world was molten, rock couldn't form yet. They even named the period the Hadean for Hades/Hell. They were wrong and yet they still show simulations of the Earth's molten surface being pelted with chunks of rock. Those meteorites were hitting an ocean of water, not lava.

 

[Berzerker]

You say that the Tower of Babel happened and then people dispersed around the world and started building pyramids. I'm curious why when they went to Peru from the Middle Est, they did not take pottery with them. Caral was a pre ceramic culture in Peru. One would think that not only would they have brought pottery, they would have brought writing too. And since they had to fly on Anunnaki spaceships to get from the ME to Peru, metal working. Have you checked the various genetic haplotypes to make sure that the ME connection to Native Americans is strong?

View attachment 626516

Maybe the tower of babel didn't happen and it was just a story to explain different languages. Or it did but Caral wasn't involved or it predated pottery and writing. The Inca have a legend that ancient people had invented writing but gave it up for fear of angering god again. Some cultures like the Hopi believe the gods wanted them to live humble austere lives and certain technological advances might offend them... like building a tower to reach heaven.

I've flown on planes and I dont know how to make them. You live near Indian country, I'm sure they have legends of the sky people and their thunderbirds. I saw a picture of one about 40 miles south of Green River, Utah. Your DNA map only shows dominant groups, the tower dispersed a relatively small group of a few hundred or few thousand people.

 

[Berzerker]

You are thinking of Arianism, which held that Jesus (Son of God) was not co-eternal with God the Father. This is what's known as a nontrinitarian position. And while Arianism was gradually stamped out, you can still see nontrinitarianism today, such as in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints

Is there a gnostic tradition claiming Jesus told his followers the creator in Genesis was not god and should not be worshiped?

The exmaple I would give since we talked about it is the two Genesis creation stories which have contridictions

what contradictions?

 

[Plotinus]

I thought that the first standaised Bible was created at Nicene with the rejection of certain books and the attempt to resolve issues with the divided early Christian belief system.

No, this is completely wrong, though it's a common myth.

I do remember that one major Christian belief was that there were two Gods and this was declared as herecy and eventually completely stamped out. Along with the Gnositics and many of there wild christian beliefs

The notion that there are "two Gods" was indeed current in some pre-Nicene Christian circles. Justin Martyr's "Dialogue With Trypho" devotes a lot of space to arguing for this view. But it wasn't condemned as heresy. In fact Justin Martyr is regarded as a saint. His views were an early version of what would later evolve into the doctrine of the Trinity.

 

[Harv]

Any life that survives being first cooked to thousands of degrees Celsius and subjected to massive radiation burst, then millions to billions of years in hard vacuum bombarded by ambient space radiation, you mean.

Evolution and origin of life are a bit different topics. While evolution is scientifically proved, abiogenesis is still mostly theoretical concept-we know a few ways it could work, on paper, but experimental phase is still inconclusive. And if you are really interested in how evolution woks, I recommend vast amount of scientific literature written about it.

BTW, as I pointed out, pyramids were a fad that was springing up all over the world over the ages, for a damn good reason. If you don't have a good knowledge of architecture, pyramidal structures are your only way of building something big and impressive. So there's no wonder that couple of sites date to roughly same era.

There is a lot of insight in just a few sentences. It will take me a while to process this.

A few pages have sprung up since I last checked in on this discussion, so it will take me a few cups of coffee to read through it.

I was the single vote for we don't know enough one way or the other. 17/37 people here went with the kernel of truth. The topic that seems viral on youtube that fascinates me is the Bronze Age Collapse between 1200BCE and 1160BCE.
Did this really happen and is it currently accepted by historians?
Who axe-rushed the Eastern Mediterranean?

I can't find my history textbook and I don't remember anything on the subject being taught in school. I remember a single vague sentence explaining that there was a general crisis in that part of the world at the time.

 

[r16]

because it is never fully discussed . What happens when there are far too many smart people to take advantage of a natural disaster and interfere in things . It is essentially non-Western and whatnot . But yeah , there will be even fewer people to discuss . In the current thread there is one guy who defends whatever he believes ... the numbers to discuss this next question will be one less .

 

[João III]

Is there a gnostic tradition claiming Jesus told his followers the creator in Genesis was not god and should not be worshiped?

I'm not sure of Jesus explicitly telling his followers, but there were a number of gnostic-influenced dualist sects. There could be more, but these were the ones I remembered well enough to find on Wikipedia to link

Marcionism - Marcion preached that the benevolent God of the Gospel who sent Jesus Christ into the world as the savior was the true Supreme Being, different and opposed to the malevolent Demiurge or creator god, identified with the Hebrew God of the Old Testament.
Paulicianism - Some scholars argue that the Paulician belief system was dualistic, a cosmological system of twin, opposing deities; an Evil demiurge who is author and lord of the present visible world; and a Good Spirit who is the God of the future world.
Bogomilism - According to their teachings, God created and rules the spiritual part of the world, and Satan the material, but Satan is ultimately inferior to God and his side by virtue of being God's son.
Catharism - Cathars believed that the good God was the God of the New Testament, creator of the spiritual realm, whereas the evil God was the God of the Old Testament, creator of the physical world whom many Cathars identified as Satan.

 

[Plotinus]

It’s true that all of those had (or were said to have) similarities to Gnosticism, but the links between Marcionism and Gnosticism are disputed and the later groups certainly had no historical connection to Gnosticism.

Is there a gnostic tradition claiming Jesus told his followers the creator in Genesis was not god and should not be worshiped?

The Gospel of Philip is a gnostic text that teaches that world came about as a result of a mistake, so the creator of the world is not the true God. I think that gnostic Christians more commonly believed in rather more elaborate cosmologies though, as you find in Sethian texts such as the Apocryphon of John or the Coptic Gospel of the Egyptians and On the Origin of the World. These stress that the angelic being that creates the physical world, Yaldabaoth, arrogantly or ignorantly claims to be the sole God, but as you can see they also speak of a vast number of divine or quasi-divine entities. You can find views similar to these (if rather less complex) attributed to Jesus himself in texts such as the Sophia of Jesus Christ, where Jesus speaks of Yaldabaoth as the "Almighty" but still ignorant and arrogant.

what contradictions?

In Genesis 1:1-2:3, God creates the universe first and then fills it with plants and animals, before creating humans last, both male and female. In Genesis 2:4-25, God creates the man first, then all the plants, and then after that creates the woman.

 

[Birdjaguar]

Thanks @Plotinus for bring your knowledge to the thread.

 

[Sarin]

Who axe-rushed the Eastern Mediterranean?

Raging Barbarians was on, and they spawned while everyone had units elsewhere.

 

[João III]

The Gospel of Philip is a gnostic text that teaches that world came about as a result of a mistake, so the creator of the world is not the true God. I think that gnostic Christians more commonly believed in rather more elaborate cosmologies though, as you find in Sethian texts such as the Apocryphon of John or the Coptic Gospel of the Egyptians and On the Origin of the World. These stress that the angelic being that creates the physical world, Yaldabaoth, arrogantly or ignorantly claims to be the sole God, but as you can see they also speak of a vast number of divine or quasi-divine entities. You can find views similar to these (if rather less complex) attributed to Jesus himself in texts such as the Sophia of Jesus Christ, where Jesus speaks of Yaldabaoth as the "Almighty" but still ignorant and arrogant.

Thanks for sharing! Do you have any insights regarding the Gospel of Judas and/or Gospel of Mary you could share as well?

 

[Lexicus]

Catharism - Cathars believed that the good God was the God of the New Testament, creator of the spiritual realm, whereas the evil God was the God of the Old Testament, creator of the physical world whom many Cathars identified as Satan.

This fanfic is way more interesting than the original canon

 

[TheMeInTeam]

first time posting in this thread. seems i'm with the majority on this one

plato was likely aware of changes in sea levels/flooding in some capacity over history, or at least heard stories of it that were themselves based in reality. just needs a bit of embellishment of what got flooded from there to make the story more interesting.

Raging Barbarians was on, and they spawned while everyone had units elsewhere.

stupid imbalanced event barbarians

 

[Lexicus]

plato was likely aware of changes in sea levels/flooding in some capacity over history, or at least heard stories of it that were themselves based in reality. just needs a bit of embellishment of what got flooded from there to make the story more interesting.

It is fun to think Plato was writing about Santorini but I don't think there's a shred of evidence to support the idea.

 

[Plotinus]

Thanks @Plotinus for bring your knowledge to the thread.

You know me, always happy to pontificate!

Thanks for sharing! Do you have any insights regarding the Gospel of Judas and/or Gospel of Mary you could share as well?

They're pretty typical gnostic texts really. They follow a very common genre among gnostic writings - a discourse in which Jesus expounds esoteric teachings to his disciples, normally to one especially discerning one, or in which the favoured disciple passes on Jesus' teaching to others. The Gospel of Judas is another of these Sethian Gnostic texts in which the creator God is identified as Yaldabaoth. (Also the trope of Jesus laughing at the stupidity of the ignorant is found in other gnostic texts too; for example, Irenaeus writes that Basilides taught that Jesus changed his appearance so that Simon of Cyrene was crucified in his place in mistake for him, and then stood by laughing.) The Gospel of Mary doesn't have these features but it's much more fragmentary. Of course people get particularly excited about anything to do with Mary Magdalene or the idea that Judas wasn't bad after all, but that's just modern sensationalism - I think the contents of these texts are fairly standard gnostic fare, at least to my inexpert eye!

 

[Birdjaguar]

plato was likely aware of changes in sea levels/flooding in some capacity over history,

What evidence is there for this by him or anyone else?

 

[TheMeInTeam]

What evidence is there for this by him or anyone else?

pick an area that had water while he was alive which didn't before. a reasonably likely explanation for his inspiration is tsunamis, and even wikipedia makes this suggestion: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_tsunamis --> having a greek city get leveled and remain partially submerged in his lifetime could certainly be the "kernel of truth" from which one could derive an embellished story. it wouldn't be the first/last time a tsunami did damage on that scale...in fact within past 100 years of that one it had impacted wars involving greece twice. not a huge leap to fathom some grand civilization (as stand in for greek city states) getting similarly rekt by water in a story.

for some reason, this topic also reminded me of the palk strait, and that it was supposedly traversable in the 1400s and earlier.

 

[Birdjaguar]

pick an area that had water while he was alive which didn't before.

And what area would that be? Tsunamis are not sea level changes. Nile floods were annual. Are there any records of tsunamis or earthquakes that destroyed cities that might produce tsunamis in Plato's time?