Attack of The Super Duper Big Picture

[punkbass2000]

Being an expert at playing the definitions game, I sense when it's brought in as a diversion.

Well, to answer you in a less round-about way, I do, intellectually honestly believe that, but not viscerally.

 

[superisis]

Wrong on both counts.

Wrong on both counts, eh?

Count 1. How can you not believe in absolute morals and absolute values if you believe in a divine omnipotent being?

Count 2. How can you claim that nothing matters then claim that my accusations aren't aimed at you (they were).

 

[Richard Cribb]

You're saying conformism is bad?

Yes.

 

[superisis]

luceafarul is a non-conformist... if he was not, how could The Last Conformist be the last conformist? Sorry to break it to you.

 

[Rambuchan]

http://www.meaning.ca/articles/humility_yu-hsi.htm

And >

PRIDE AND EGO VS. HUMILITY AND MODESTY

However, there is a possible way out of this dilemma: Buddhism and Objectivism don't have the same ego concepts, so they are talking about (somewhat) different things. The Buddhist concept of ego seems to have similarities to the psychoanalytic one, referring mostly to internalized limitations, habits, tastes, conventions, taboos and soforth that have been automatized and learned by social osmosis from childhood and on. These are self-reproducing and self-maintaining limitations on everyone's cognitive and behavioral functions, preferences and values, preventing people from living consciously and first-hand. Also Objectivists and Randians are opposed to such limitations.

Processes and functions that Objectivists consider cognitive aspects of an independent, self-made value-based ego are differently conceived by Buddhists, as processes and functions that liberate an individual from a more static or locked ego created and maintained by involuntary social conditioning. Similarly, when Buddhists criticize pride, they seem to be mostly referring to what Aristotelians would identify as conceit, boastfulness, and a lack of sensitivity, rather than nobility and the great soul. Once one starts speaking about what nobility consists of and what capacities and characteristics a great soul must possess, previously obscured similarities between Buddhism and Objectivism may emerge.

From: http://folk.uio.no/thomas/po/buddhjectivism.html

 

[The Last Conformist]

Well, to answer you in a less round-about way, I do, intellectually honestly believe that, but not viscerally.

I would be less skeptical if you'd said you had the other way around.

 

[The Last Conformist]

luceafarul is a non-conformist... if he was not, how could The Last Conformist be the last conformist? Sorry to break it to you.

He may be a non-conformist, but that's no reason he should look down at me.

 

[Marla_Singer]

luceafarul is a non-conformist... if he was not, how could The Last Conformist be the last conformist? Sorry to break it to you.

How could The Last Conformist be the last conformist in the first place ? How could their be a last conformist ? That would mean conformism is the exception, which it cannot be by definition. Hence, The Last Conformist is either a non-conformist or not the last one among conformists.

 

[Rambuchan]

Or maybe he is deliberately a paradox so we could all talk about him endlessly to pump his ego?

 

[The Last Conformist]

How could The Last Conformist be the last conformist in the first place ? How could their be a last conformist ? That would mean conformism is the exception, which it cannot be by definition. Hence, The Last Conformist is either a non-conformist or not the last one among conformists.

That's clever Marla. Have a cookie.

 

[punkbass2000]

Wrong on both counts, eh?

Count 1. How can you not believe in absolute morals and absolute values if you believe in a divine omnipotent being?

Pretty easily, it would seem.

Count 2. How can you claim that nothing matters then claim that my accusations aren't aimed at you (they were).

Ah, now you presume "you" and "I" are separate.

 

[The Last Conformist]

Or maybe he is deliberately a paradox so we could all talk about him endlessly to pump his ego?

That's clever Ram. Have a cookie.

 

[punkbass2000]

I would be less skeptical if you'd said you had the other way around.

Oh, why's that?

 

[The Last Conformist]

Oh, why's that?

Quite a few people have reported feeling than nothing matters, but no-one's been able to make a reasonable argument for it, so I'm inclined to think those who claim to hold it intellectually are merely putting false labels on their irrational feelings.

 

[Rambuchan]

That's clever Ram. Have a cookie.

Thanks but I just help myself from the cookie jar whenever I want to. Bit stuffed right now actually.

 

[punkbass2000]

Quite a few people have reported feeling than nothing matters, but no-one's been able to make a reasonable argument for it, so I'm inclined to think those who claim to hold it intellectually are merely putting false labels on their irrational feelings.

I don't quite see why I should need to make a reasonable argument for it in order to hold the position intellectually. It is quite obvious that things matter to me viscerally, however.

 

[The Last Conformist]

I don't quite see why I should need to make a reasonable argument for it in order to hold the position intellectually. It is quite obvious that things matter to me viscerally, however.

Well, then I misunderstood what you meant by holding it intellectually. May I ask why you hold the opinion if it's based neither on rational arguments nor feelings?

 

[punkbass2000]

It seems sort of obvious, to me. Why should anything matter?

 

[The Last Conformist]

It seems sort of obvious, to me. Why should anything matter?

Whether they should or not, it appears to be an observational fact that they do.

 

[Bozo Erectus]

Luceafarul, I agree that this way of looking at things can be very dangerous, but only if large numbers of people begin thinking the same way. That'll never happen.

Life has a meaning and a value, only that each and everyone of us are responsible to give it that. It doesn't hurt to do our little effort to make it better for others, either.

I absolutely agree. Why not enjoy what comforts and pleasant things are available to us? Why not help others, doing so is a good thing. I think you can have this philosophy Ive outlined, and still fully participate in the world. Like any other philosophy, it can inform us while not destroying us. Take Christianity, you dont see too many Christians walking around naked and starving, because of Matthew 6.

Or perhaps it will make me feel worthless, perhaps it will make me feel that everybody else is worthless and nothing matters, which perhaps will make me feel indifferent towards suffering, injustice, etc.

All Im saying is that regardless of how we feel about things, if we were to be really objective for a moment, we'd have no choice but to conclude that this world and all that happens on it is about important and relevant to the universe as a dog scratching behind its ear in an alleyway in Ulan Baatar would be to us (less actually). I mean come on, lets be honest. If some sort of cosmic scientists stumbled upon our universe and studied it for a billion years, they might never even notice we were here! But Im not saying that means we should all quit our jobs and go meditate on a mountaintop. On the contrary, eat drink and be merry!