Attacko's 7 Facts of War

[Black Mech]

Wasn't the entire fleet it was a battle ship and its escorts and it was a skirmish involving bomber flight taffy three, the destroyer tied up the the battle ship so that the rest of its group could fall back, attempting to use a destroyer the same way in civ doesn't work out so well though. Oh and tactical audacity doesn't work if you can't keep the troops fed and stocked with ammo, I don't remember who said it but good commanders think how to supply the troops bad commanders first think on battle field tactics. Still poorly translated in civ since you don't have to worry about food or ammo, or even the battle field(rng handles that), infact civ is actually very inacurate in its mehcanics to real life due to never worrying about supplies beyond maintnece costs, moral of soilders doesn't exist, they don't need ammo or food or rest, it can take yrs to move one tile, etc. But it is after all a game, those arn't exactly the fun elements and its good they are missing. And tatch and weave wasn't used in midway, just the simple fact that the japanese fleet lost the air fight during the battle (and the us actually had decent fighters by midway). Anyway i'd rather have different plans available besides tach and weave incase my opponent can match, sometimes one stack that is very strong can be effective, just deppends on the situation your in, hence why those "facts" up above aren't all facts, too many variables. I do agree with momentum and impitus being primary factors in warfair but make sure you have an idea on what your facing first before you just rush in blindly.

Yeah sorry for the wall of text I just end up writing too much it seems

 

[CHEESE!]

Attacko doubleplusgood. Un-Attacko oldthink plusbad. Plusbad oldthinkers rehab Miniluv.

Attacko is all. All is Attacko.

 

[m4gill4]

I find Attacko's Thatch and Weave strategy to be most intriguing. Does he provide any other basketry or embroidery themed military advice?

 

[noto2]

Civ4 is more accurate in its dynamic then written history or Sun Loo.

Fact- Footsoldier- to Horsesoldier- Armor- to non Armor and back again

Phalanx- armored head to toe- Legion a bit less so- Then Horsemen- then Knights
then gunpowder- back to Footsoldier, no armor- then Tanks (horse) and Body armor again,
- it should go back to no armor again- (neutron bomb, sonic. microwave )

the evidence is clear

ooooh...gotcha buddy, you screwed up. Actually, the phalanx is referring to classic age greek hoplites that were NOT armoured head to toe. The hoplite's armour consisted of a helmet, breasplate, and then usually glaives, gauntlets, etc. Their limbs were not well protected. The Roman legionaries didn't really wear much more armour than the hoplites, but they had much bigger shields and longer swords. Full, heavy armour is something that didn't show up until the middle ages in Europe. In asia I suppose you could consider samurai to be the equivalent of a heavily armoured infantry or cavalry soldier, but again this didn't happen until around the same time period in Europe

 

[troytheface]

"And tatch and weave wasn't used in midway, just the simple fact that the japanese fleet lost the air fight during the battle " - Black Mech

"The tactic was first tested in combat by Thach during the Battle of Midway, when his flight of four F4F Wildcats was attacked by a squad of Zeroes. Thach's wingman, Ensign R. A. M. Dibb, was attacked by a Japanese pilot and turned towards Thach, who dived under his wingman and fired at the incoming enemy aircraft's belly until its engine ignited" - holypedia

"Wasn't the entire fleet it was a battle ship and its escorts and it was a skirmish "- Black Mech

"The Battle off Samar was the central action of the Battle of Leyte Gulf, which was one of the largest naval battles in history. As the only major action in the larger battle where the Americans were largely unprepared against the opposing forces, it has been cited by historians as one of the greatest military mismatches in naval history."- holypedia

If these are misconstrued then so to is

" in civ since you don't have to worry about food or ammo, or even the battle field(rng handles that), infact civ is actually very inacurate in its mehcanics to real life due to never worrying about supplies beyond maintnece costs, moral of soilders doesn't exist, they don't need ammo or food or rest, it can take yrs to move one tile, etc. But it is after all a game"

- a game that is more tactically accurate then history.
the evidence is clear, Attacko 2- Fanatics- 0

 

[troytheface]

double post in excitement- i refer to getting excited about Civ4 tactical posts as "the Attacko Factor"....however, in lieu of a mistake (the beginning and making of tactical prowess- ie the exact opposite of "build a cottage" - like directives or reloading because of a simple/little mistake..) i'll type something as you have to or you have to ask someone to delete a double post....

"Hahaha, when did this happen"- Joecoolyo

"Commander Ernest E. Evans, commanding officer of the destroyer Johnston, the closest to the attackers, took the initiative. He ordered his ship to "flank speed, full left rudder," attacking on his own in what appeared to be a suicide mission."- holypedia

"This is exactly why it is required that all military personnel in the United States read it, and I'm pretty sure the United States lost most of its wars "- Joecoolyo

they did away with peeling potatoes when you #$%$ up and instead make you read "Tale of Two Cities" or if you really screwed up- "Sun Loo's Art of Losing".

"I'd also argue over great wall being a "best wonder for war" even though it provides gspy points and such the fact that it barricades you from barbs makes no incentive to fog bust and get some fre exp of the barbs"

Fact- Earliest and free Spy available that can see the enemy and never dies or is ejected for the whole game

Fact- Free barbarian allies that help you attack early in the game

Attacko- 4- Fanatics- 0

 

[Joecoolyo]

"Hahaha, when did this happen"- Joecoolyo

"Commander Ernest E. Evans, commanding officer of the destroyer Johnston, the closest to the attackers, took the initiative. He ordered his ship to "flank speed, full left rudder," attacking on his own in what appeared to be a suicide mission."- holypedia

"This is exactly why it is required that all military personnel in the United States read it, and I'm pretty sure the United States lost most of its wars "- Joecoolyo

they did away with peeling potatoes when you #$%$ up and instead make you read "Tale of Two Cities" or if you really screwed up- "Sun Loo's Art of Losing".

"

When did this happen? All you did was give me a quote from Wikipedia, I'd like a link to the entire passage so I can at least tell your not just giving random quotes from a novel.

*cough*, here is the passage for the Great and Almighty Attacko to read again:

The Department of the Army in the United States, through its Command and General Staff College, has directed all units to maintain libraries within their respective headquarters for the continuing education of personnel in the art of war. The Art of War is specifically mentioned by name as an example of works to be maintained at each individual unit, and staff duty officers are obliged to prepare short papers for presentation to other officers on their readings.

The Art of War is listed on the Marine Corps Professional Reading Program (formerly known as the Commandant's Reading List).-Sun Tzu's Art of War, Wikipedia

here's you link (again)

 

[r_rolo1]

Fact- The american navy doesn't read it's doctrine and doesn't follow it if it did
which is why 1 destroyer attacked the entire japanese fleet

Well, it would be hard to follow Sun Tzu teachings on naval warfare... basically because they don't exist

Rolo 1 -Troy 0

the evidence is clear- if Sun tzu and Attacko played an online game Sun Tzu would go crying home to mama san

Again it would be hard a chinese from the 4th century BC to go cry to his japanese mother because of losing a computer game

Rolo 2 -Troy 0

 

[troytheface]

Fact- When Johnston closed to within torpedo range, she fired a salvo, which blew the bow off Kumano, which also took the heavy cruiser Suzuya out of the fight, as she stopped to assist

Fact- the battleship Kongō sent a 14 in shell through Johnston's deck and engine room, cutting the destroyer's speed in half Then three 6 in shells, possibly from Yamato, struck Johnston's bridge, causing numerous casualties and severing fingers from Captain Evans' left hand.

Fact-Despite heavy damage, Evans turned Johnston around and reentered the fight while damage control teams restored power to two of the three aft turrets. (didn't wait to heal like most civ4 players)

Fact-Johnston was hit so many times Evans finally gave the order to abandon ship.
Johnston sank 25 minutes later with 186 of her crew. Evans abandoned ship with his crew, but was never seen again. He was posthumously awarded the Medal of Honor. As a Japanese destroyer cruised slowly by, the survivors saw the enemy standing at attention to salute.

the evidence is clear. Sun Tzu practioners saluting thatch weaving Attacko like tactics.
In Civ4 attack with light units against heavy as qucikly and often as possible and attach a great general to a trireme.

Attacko six, Fanatics, nuth'n

 

[r_rolo1]

Oh, I forgot this one:

exactly- all those who utilize Sun Tzu like tactics lose. all those who cannot at times even read win. (communists over nationalists in china- mongols over china- ect.)

Logical fallacy alert This means that if two armies use Sun tzu tactics, in troy opinion, they will both lose As there were battles where both of the sides were followers of Sun Tzu and one of them won, I beg to disagree

Rolo 3 - Troy 0

 

[Pindrus]

Isn't everyone really a loser in war?

 

[r_rolo1]

Well, that depends of how you define "loser"

 

[troytheface]

"Isn't everyone really a loser in war? "

Fact- Civ4- free workers, free citys, free wonders, free gold ,free population and land with improvements for the winner in war.

Fact- The F4F Wildcat/Wildcatfish was the greatest plane of WW2

"A great general trireme, a great general horse, a great general blimp if you can do it, a great general footsoldier- failure to attach is in the realm of fools"- Attacko- 2006

 

[budweiser]

Fact- The F4F Wildcat/Wildcatfish was the greatest plane of WW2

A match for the Zero, but far from the greatest.

 

[CHEESE!]

Disbelievers! Bow to Attacko!

Troy, you are getting a bit too sensible. Where are the amphibious elephants?

 

[bestbrian]

I'm still trying to figure out why a William Tecumseh Sherman quote leads to an Pedia entry on Tecumseh.

And I wouldn't compare Attacko to the Thatch Weave - it's more like the Shuck and Jive.

Nice one Troy.

 

[Negator_UK]

Well, that depends of how you define "loser"

Anyone basing their civ games on this thread...

 

[troytheface]

"I'm still trying to figure out why a William Tecumseh Sherman quote leads to an Pedia entry on Tecumseh"

Sherman's father admired both the battleing and spiritual aspect of Tecumesh.
Then the Johnston came up and it's captain- Evans was 3 quarters american indian as well.

Venn diagram analysis and interconnections leading to the "there are no coincidences in Civ4 warfare" realization.
In civ4 terms have a religeon use the thach weave stack tactic and split the enemy's civ in half (Fact 1 of the 7).

"A match for the Zero, but far from the greatest."- budweiser

Fact- The germans were terrifed of the Wildcat and were happy to fight the inferior hurricanes and spitfires which is why the british, greeks and french all tried to buy Wildcats. (Marlets)

Fact- Fought from beginning to end - manufactured to the end- and predated jump jets of the future and carried rockets- again harkoning in the future. Observation, seaplane, fighter and bomber.
While suprised at Pearl harbor-they then were used in Guadicanal, Coral sea, Leyete gulf, Midway- all the major battles of the pacific won by- the Wildcat. Mediterranean and Atlantic as well.

In civ4 terms- don't be afraid to build/attack with seemingly outdated units.

Attacko 8, Fanatics 0

 

[budweiser]

"A match for the Zero, but far from the greatest."- budweiser

Fact- The germans were terrifed of the Wildcat and were happy to fight the inferior hurricanes and spitfires which is why the british, greeks and french all tried to buy Wildcats. (Marlets)

Fact- Fought from beginning to end - manufactured to the end- and predated jump jets of the future and carried rockets- again harkoning in the future. Observation, seaplane, fighter and bomber.
While suprised at Pearl harbor-they then were used in Guadicanal, Coral sea, Leyete gulf, Midway- all the major battles of the pacific won by- the Wildcat. Mediterranean and Atlantic as well.

In civ4 terms- don't be afraid to build/attack with seemingly outdated units.

Attacko 8, Fanatics 0

As soon as the F6F and F4U appeared in late 1943, the Wildats were withdrawn from the front line carriers and put on escort carriers to look for subs and strafe jungle islands; as far away as possible from any Zeros. They were sent as far away as the North Atlantic to find safe haven from dog-fights. Never bring a cat to a dog fight.

None-the-less, a true patriot and wise states man once said "You go to war with the army you have, not the one you want." The evidence is clear, the Rumsfeld doctrine was learned while playing Civ.

 

[troytheface]

Fact- A Wildcat with rockets could shoot down the inferior ME 262. 4 guns to six guns back to 4 guns because the quadratic was better as they had to go through a series to find out

Fact- A highly promoted rifleman can kill a drafted infantryman

Fact- Only two models of planes stopped a nation state invasion. The Hurricane and the Wildcat.

Fact-France would have beaten Germany if they had more Wildcats.

You go to war with what you can manufacture- not with what you have- and they manufactured Wildcats til the end which were superior to Corsairs and others that came with about 15 minutes of war left and all the good enemy pilots dead.

The evidence is clear- build light troops over heavy so you can have more -like
Wildcats with foldiing wings to cram more planes in. this is the superior.