ParadigmShifter
Random Nonsense Generator
LOL 10char
Attacko's -Statues, Facism, Industry.
- Thread starter troytheface
- Start date
troytheface
Deity
- Joined
- Mar 26, 2002
- Messages
- 3,262
"The thing is, when is +1 pop and +25% pre gunpowder defense better than an early game tech lead?"
Chitzen Itza is the superior for Montezuma and Charlemange over the Pyramids for several reasons.
Their unique buildings are courthouse replacements. ( Sacrificial Altar, 90 cost instead of 120 -50% anger duration from sacrificing population , and the Rathaus-75% maintenance instead of -50%. ) Thier traits are warlike as are thier unique units, combining for an empire geared for expansion, retention.
Chichen Itza
Cost: 500 (Double Production Speed w/ Stone)
Culture: 6
Great People Points: 2
Requires: Code of Laws
Expires: Rifling
+25% defense in all your cities
City more likely to generate Great Prophet
The defensive/offensive stance, industry , growth, and economics, of these civs are served much better by teching towards Code of Laws , pre building other wonders for money, building Chitzen Itza and procuring their unique buildings in one blast of held-off woods hyper-chop while picking up a defensive bonus and perhaps founding Confucionism and adding points towards a Great Prophet, needed to build the The Kong Miao which adds more great prophet points at a time when the highly tradeable Divine Right is nearing, as oppossed to...
"Enables all government civics
City more likely to generate Great Engineer "
The same cost at a later time when it is more feasible, a religion (via tech path), defense and great prophet points and allows one to hold off on Masonry for awhile procuring more relevant techs (Writing, Currency ie. tech, commerce) for future solidification and aggression.
"To me, the Egyptian pyramids were quite disappointing. They are not as big nor as impressive as those around Mexico City." - General Patton
Chitzen Itza is the superior for Montezuma and Charlemange over the Pyramids for several reasons.
Their unique buildings are courthouse replacements. ( Sacrificial Altar, 90 cost instead of 120 -50% anger duration from sacrificing population , and the Rathaus-75% maintenance instead of -50%. ) Thier traits are warlike as are thier unique units, combining for an empire geared for expansion, retention.
Chichen Itza
Cost: 500 (Double Production Speed w/ Stone)
Culture: 6
Great People Points: 2
Requires: Code of Laws
Expires: Rifling
+25% defense in all your cities
City more likely to generate Great Prophet
The defensive/offensive stance, industry , growth, and economics, of these civs are served much better by teching towards Code of Laws , pre building other wonders for money, building Chitzen Itza and procuring their unique buildings in one blast of held-off woods hyper-chop while picking up a defensive bonus and perhaps founding Confucionism and adding points towards a Great Prophet, needed to build the The Kong Miao which adds more great prophet points at a time when the highly tradeable Divine Right is nearing, as oppossed to...
"Enables all government civics
City more likely to generate Great Engineer "
The same cost at a later time when it is more feasible, a religion (via tech path), defense and great prophet points and allows one to hold off on Masonry for awhile procuring more relevant techs (Writing, Currency ie. tech, commerce) for future solidification and aggression.
"To me, the Egyptian pyramids were quite disappointing. They are not as big nor as impressive as those around Mexico City." - General Patton
troytheface
Deity
- Joined
- Mar 26, 2002
- Messages
- 3,262
There are three leaders Darius - Persia, Hammurabi- Babylon, Mehmed II- Ottomen, that benefit more from the Hanging Gardens
+1 health in all cities
+1 population in all cities
City more likely to generate Great Engineer
A small Organized civilization running Vassalage and Serfdom gains
three times the amount over the Pyramids.
+1 health in all cities
+1 population in all cities
City more likely to generate Great Engineer
A small Organized civilization running Vassalage and Serfdom gains
three times the amount over the Pyramids.
Stewie0416
Who Cares?
ok i can't take this junk anymore. First off, SERFDOM!!! that's the only civic that can be replaced by a WONDER! I still don't get why some civs benefit more. I don't care what civ i am if i can build the pyramids then use the GE from there to get the HG ,which is actually a good strategy, i'll do it! The pyramids is an amazing wonder. It can make or break you game ( not always though)
Point13
Like a ton of bricks!
Three times the amount of what?
troytheface
Deity
- Joined
- Mar 26, 2002
- Messages
- 3,262
Non-Expiring Wonders
Hanging Gardens: +1 pop, +1 health in all cities. This is a huge early wonder that can catapult your civ ahead, especially if you have many small or modest-sized cities. Adding an extra pop and health point to every city boosts your economy, your research, your productivity.
from WoundedKnight's Strategy Guide
Hanging Gardens: +1 pop, +1 health in all cities. This is a huge early wonder that can catapult your civ ahead, especially if you have many small or modest-sized cities. Adding an extra pop and health point to every city boosts your economy, your research, your productivity.
from WoundedKnight's Strategy Guide
BakingTheArt
His Evening Coat
Health is much less of an issue than happiness. When I build the Hanging Gardens, I end up with rampant unhappiness all around the empire, except maybe in some frontier city I just founded, and have to starve it back down. On the other hand, The Pyramids allows for Representation, which gives happiness, allowing cities to grow to a higher size, allowing for the increase in production that you described.
The Chitzen Itza, don't make me laugh. I've never had an attack on the homeland before gunpowder, or at least one where they captured a city (Okay, once, but that was because I didn't notice Monty's fleet of galleys outside a city protected by an axeman, not because that axeman needed the 25% push to put it over the top. Still, it was a worthless canal city I refounded as soon as the war was over). It's quite stupid even to suggest getting a HUGE push in the early game isn't worth losing the "benefits" of the Chicken Pizza.
Amount of benefits listed ≠ better wonder. Not even close.
Or should I just give up reasoning with it, as he will pick up the one tiny bit that when taken out of context sounds like praise?
The Chitzen Itza, don't make me laugh. I've never had an attack on the homeland before gunpowder, or at least one where they captured a city (Okay, once, but that was because I didn't notice Monty's fleet of galleys outside a city protected by an axeman, not because that axeman needed the 25% push to put it over the top. Still, it was a worthless canal city I refounded as soon as the war was over). It's quite stupid even to suggest getting a HUGE push in the early game isn't worth losing the "benefits" of the Chicken Pizza.
Amount of benefits listed ≠ better wonder. Not even close.
Or should I just give up reasoning with it, as he will pick up the one tiny bit that when taken out of context sounds like praise?
ParadigmShifter
Random Nonsense Generator
I agree that Chichen Itza is rubbish (although it is annoying if the AI builds it and you have to bombard the city for many many turns), The Hanging Gardens are good. Just make sure you are in slavery when you build it to turn unhappiness into hammers! +1 health is not to be sniffed at either.
carl corey
Deity
I always perceived hanging gardens as hammer boost spread through all empire.
Great if you have rexed and got a stone.
troytheface
Deity
- Joined
- Mar 26, 2002
- Messages
- 3,262
In Civ4 and chess there is an adage "economy of moves". Chitzen Iza and The Hanging Gardens provide the option of a more economical defense force, and city build.
"Amount of benefits listed ≠ better wonder. Not even close."
Hardly much of an arguement, without comparisons, examples, Venn Diagrams...?
Given are a few leaders/civs that are better suited towards building Chitzen Itza, and The Hanging Gardens.
Were those the leaders/civs selected?
"Health is much less of an issue than happiness. When I build the Hanging Gardens, I end up with rampant unhappiness all around the empire"
A small Organized civilization running Vassalage and Serfdom will alleviate this deficiency in ability.
"Success in war depends on the 'golden rules of war'; speed, simplicity, and boldness" - Patton
As to the mentioned civs with more favorable wonder options...
Speed- Pyramids- a long early build- not optimal
Simplicity- pre planning, switching early for a specific government civic - not optimal
Boldness- A Pyramid build is not bold - not optimal
The Pyramids are optimal for Ramses II and Augustus Ceasar however.
"The Great Wall is to Espionage as the Pyramids is to stupid players" - Attacko
(from Attacko's Handbook of Espionage)
"Amount of benefits listed ≠ better wonder. Not even close."
Hardly much of an arguement, without comparisons, examples, Venn Diagrams...?
Given are a few leaders/civs that are better suited towards building Chitzen Itza, and The Hanging Gardens.
Were those the leaders/civs selected?
"Health is much less of an issue than happiness. When I build the Hanging Gardens, I end up with rampant unhappiness all around the empire"
A small Organized civilization running Vassalage and Serfdom will alleviate this deficiency in ability.
"Success in war depends on the 'golden rules of war'; speed, simplicity, and boldness" - Patton
As to the mentioned civs with more favorable wonder options...
Speed- Pyramids- a long early build- not optimal
Simplicity- pre planning, switching early for a specific government civic - not optimal
Boldness- A Pyramid build is not bold - not optimal
The Pyramids are optimal for Ramses II and Augustus Ceasar however.
"The Great Wall is to Espionage as the Pyramids is to stupid players" - Attacko
(from Attacko's Handbook of Espionage)
Bleys
Deity
troy, can you get me some of whatever your smokin? Do you even PLAY this game?
Here is my suggestion troy. Do a walkthrough for us. Use one of Attacko's "guides" and play a walkthrough.
Here is my suggestion troy. Do a walkthrough for us. Use one of Attacko's "guides" and play a walkthrough.
troytheface
Deity
- Joined
- Mar 26, 2002
- Messages
- 3,262
A walkthrough as a video in some kind of real time so that the cheating, reloading manipulated, and misleading walkthroughs most are familiar with, can be avoided, using a cryptic voice over in a tone of utter seriouness, philosophically relating venn diagram-like connections, would be a hard thing to do.
I heard that there were a couple walk throughs Attacko made as experimental videos, "Ice City First Build Attack" and a poorly shot (cell phone) multiplayer game "The Babylonian Manuever" where he defeated three secret ladder players.
I heard that there were a couple walk throughs Attacko made as experimental videos, "Ice City First Build Attack" and a poorly shot (cell phone) multiplayer game "The Babylonian Manuever" where he defeated three secret ladder players.
Bleys
Deity
Reload and cheat all you want troy, I would like to see you apply some of the Attacko Creedo. Lets see you leverage the Chicken Itza as Monty. Show us with specific examples why its "better" than the Mids.
troytheface
Deity
- Joined
- Mar 26, 2002
- Messages
- 3,262
Specific Examples of why Chitzen Itza is better than the Pyramids for Montezuma in a mini-Walkthrough.
Montezuma Aztec Empire
Spiritual- No anarchy. Double production speed of Temples and the Cristo Redentor wonder.
Aggressive-Free Combat I promotion for melee and gunpowder units.
Double production speed of Barracks and Drydock.
Techs - Mysticism/Hunting
I build on a hill next to Deer and a river.
Close already to Polytheism i pre-tech that and stop before i discover Hinduism then switch to Mining while building a Scout. After someone discovers Hinduism the tech is to Bronzeworking and my Scouts discover the Wheel and a Map and Shaka.
I get Bronzeworking build a warrior and steal a shaka worker that i bring back after finding Bronze next to the capitol. Build another worker and chop while switching the tech towards Priesthood to pick up the Oracle.
Meanwhile tech towards Writing to nab Code of Laws after making peace with Shaka the workerless and chopping his outlying forests. claim Confucionism, and chop Sacrifical Gardens and hyper-chop Chitzen Itza
Lastly- after finding Marble/Stone tech towards Masonry .
Next is Ironworking and dead Zulu spearmen at the feet of Jaguars exercising in animation over their corpses, claiming cities that have +25% added defense and generating great prophet points for the confucius religious building, and adding +6 Culture, and capturing the Pyramids that Shaka thought he could build.
Libraries, Sacrificial Altars, and free workers and cities should win you either the Space Race or Domination, or Time.
Montezuma Aztec Empire
Spiritual- No anarchy. Double production speed of Temples and the Cristo Redentor wonder.
Aggressive-Free Combat I promotion for melee and gunpowder units.
Double production speed of Barracks and Drydock.
Techs - Mysticism/Hunting
I build on a hill next to Deer and a river. Close already to Polytheism i pre-tech that and stop before i discover Hinduism then switch to Mining while building a Scout. After someone discovers Hinduism the tech is to Bronzeworking and my Scouts discover the Wheel and a Map and Shaka. I get Bronzeworking build a warrior and steal a shaka worker that i bring back after finding Bronze next to the capitol. Build another worker and chop while switching the tech towards Priesthood to pick up the Oracle. Meanwhile tech towards Writing to nab Code of Laws after making peace with Shaka the workerless and chopping his outlying forests. claim Confucionism, and chop Sacrifical Gardens and hyper-chop Chitzen Itza Lastly- after finding Marble/Stone tech towards Masonry . Next is Ironworking and dead Zulu spearmen at the feet of Jaguars exercising in animation over their corpses, claiming cities that have +25% added defense and generating great prophet points for the confucius religious building, and adding +6 Culture, and capturing the Pyramids that Shaka thought he could build.Libraries, Sacrificial Altars, and free workers and cities should win you either the Space Race or Domination, or Time.
Bleys
Deity
You know troy, its fairly obvious you have some vague grasp of this game. So tell me, are you trying to be funny with these "concepts"? Is there some joke here I dont get?
I think most of this board thinks your trying to be funny and satirical in your posts, but I dont. I think you are trying to be serious, and actually think you are offering "real" tips.
So lets see an actual game. You play as Monty, and show us all how you leverage the Chicken Itza into a winning plan, or even a real application of your "Statues" guide. Lots of screenshots so we fully understand your incoherent mumblings, and be sure to point out how the CI or the Statues is actually helping.
Oh, and post a save, so some of us can shadow along.
I think most of this board thinks your trying to be funny and satirical in your posts, but I dont. I think you are trying to be serious, and actually think you are offering "real" tips.
So lets see an actual game. You play as Monty, and show us all how you leverage the Chicken Itza into a winning plan, or even a real application of your "Statues" guide. Lots of screenshots so we fully understand your incoherent mumblings, and be sure to point out how the CI or the Statues is actually helping.
Oh, and post a save, so some of us can shadow along.
carl corey
Deity
Bleys, you're trying too hard. 
It's pretty obvious that troy is not interested in having real discussions here and is just posting for attention.
It's pretty obvious that troy is not interested in having real discussions here and is just posting for attention.
Divaythsarmour
Adventurer
I like Troy's stuff. I don't care what's driving it. It's like a very welcome and "momentary lapse of reason" in a game world that's totally unforgiving of the weak, the foolish and the innocent. That's what makes it so hilarious.
carl corey
Deity
As long as you take it as hilarious it is so. The problem is trying to reason with him leads only to frustration.
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