Bad news: Next patch on hold

[The Last Conformist]

kokoras, put your money where your mouth is. Don't buy Civ4. That's the only way change will happen.

Question is, what kind of change. Less buggy games? Possible. No games? Possible. Fewer, less buggy and less creative games? Most likely.

As for playing CivVII on the console, I don't know. A significant proportion of the gamers I know don't care if a console game has better graphics, better AI, more strategic depth, and promotes world peace; if it doesn't play on the PC, they won't touch it.

 

[Cu Chulainn]

I can understand that Firaxis doesn't have the resources to make the game perfect but there are some vital bugs in the game that need to be fixed. No one is asking for them to do rediculous amounts of playtesting but for some of these bugs playing the game once is sufficient. What would it have taken to catch the sub bug? Couldn't they have tested stealth bombard ONE time to see if it actually worked? Would it have been so hard to make the SGL's work properly? These aren't minute details, they are features of the game that are seriously broken.

I am usually against pirating games but I'm finding it difficult to argue against it when advertised features don't work and the company dosen't bother to fix them. Especially when they're pulling support to focus their attention on repackaging the same faulty product. Simply put if they are going to take my money this time and not make good with the product perhaps next time I'll take their product and not make good with the money. Regardless, I will not be buying Civ4 without waiting at least a month to see how badly bugged it is.

 

[player1 fanatic]

Actually they did detected those bugs.
They just didn't got fixed, because of coding problems (and lack of money/manpower).

 

[philippe]

i already bought ptw and C3C for a high priuce and now that no patch rippoff. shame firaxis shame

 

[dexters]

I was actually quite angry when I found out PTW would be included in C3C for free, and released less than a year after I got PTW.

Firaxis essentially had players pay to bugtest PTW then repackaged it with new units, modded scenarios and called it C3C.

I was really happy when the game came out and readily forgave Firaxis. C3C's new units and NEW AI was a lot of fun. The naval invasion/naval force issue that I wanted to see fixed so much was finally addressed and Air power was given new importance, making the late game a lot of fun. But then all this patching started. Radio got taken out. Barbarians got broken. Sub bug got reintroduced and AI won't use armies.

These aren't minor bugs or glitches but gameplay issues that affect how we play. The submarine recon picket is something I'd like to use. With the sub bug, I can't use it or risk wars with my closest allies. Armies have been made much more powerful in C3C, but the AI can't use it. Will this be another SMAC-esque human only feature that the AI can't grasp?

soren did a great job with the barbarians in PTW. I still have the old threads after PTW's release with people commenting how they got smarter, and wouldn't not longer suicide into a fortified city but rather hang around the outlands harassing passing settler/spear combos and generally being a nusience. In C3C the barbarians got dumber with an easily exploitable weakness. This again directly affects the gameplay.

I want these fixed. WE're not complaining about a graphic glitch that could a button to look a bit odd. These are NOT minor issues to me and I don't think I can start a game of Civ 3 Conquests again without having these bugs fixed. It just feels incomplete to play the game otherwise.

 

[King PJ]

I have only been playing Civ 3 Conquests for about 6 months now. What is this "sub bug" I keep hearing about so much? I still don't know what it is...

 

[Chieftess]

It's where the AI purposely runs into it, and automatically declares war, since the shortest distance path doesn't compensate for the sub, and there's probably some stack algorithm that says if 2 stacks (units) are of opposing players, attack and declare war (atleast for the AI).

 

[dexters]

... just to add something more.

For the life of me, I cannot figure out why Radio was removed. The non compatability of 1.22 to pre 1.22 saves pretty much destroyed about 6 or so games I have played, some finished some not, since C3C's release which I would like to visit on occasion. Collectively, they were easily over 2 weeks worth of playtime on those games.

If Radio was removed and there was a clear benefit, like substantially improved AI performance in the late game or to prevent a critical bug, I may be able to understand this. But the tech has been in Civ 3 since the original release and removing it seems increadibly dumb. So far no one has given any good reason why it was removed other than it was someone's agenda at Firaxis to take it out.

If the issue is that AI places too much value in this technology, and or it somehow puts the AI at a disadvantage by giving them too many techs to research before hitting the modern age, the remedy could simply be to change this into an optional cheap 4 turn tech.

=( i'm sad.

 

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

For me, C3C brought so many hardcoded improvements over ptw - c'mon, play a game in ptw again and tell me you do not miss the new traits, SGLs, Naval Escort, AI handling of sea operations, unit-spawning, enslavement, vulcanos, the phantastic (sic!) new FP (since finally the AI benefits as well from it) resulting in AIs that can beat the human player in the late game, and so on...

But this Radio thingie
...

...other than it was someone's agenda at Firaxis to take it out.

I don't think it was someone at Firaxis, but members of the 'Community'. And I wholeheartedly agree with Watorrey's assumption this was an incredible waste of manpower and time (thus money), distracting from the real problems.

 

[dexters]

I don't think it was someone at Firaxis, but members of the 'Community'. And I wholeheartedly agree with Watorrey's assumption this was an incredible waste of manpower and time (thus money), distracting from the real problems.

If that's the case those members just singlehandedly destroyed several hundred thousand man hours worth of saves which most of us who upgrade to 1.22 will never get to play again, or in my case revisist for inspiration and to recollect an old game.

What a waste.

In anycase, I've accepted Radio is gone. But the bugs needs to be fixed.

 

[Rob (R8XFT)]

I quite liked having Radio in the game; however, as I mainly play modded games, I can keep it in if I want, so it's not a major problem that it was removed from the epic game.

 

[dexters]

My beef isn't so much its gone, but that all my old C3C games are incompatible now.

 

[player1 fanatic]

There is a trick in loading old games.
Just replace original 1.22 conauests.biq file with the one from 1.15 patch.
Do this only when loading old games.

 

[dexters]

I don't believe I have the old biq backed up >.<

 

[player1 fanatic]

You could always try installing 1.15 in fake directory.
Then copy, those needed files.
Deinstall fake patch.


P.S.
Worked for me when I needed v1.15 Civ3editor

 

[bonscott]

Wow, what a thread. I've been away from C3C for about 6 months or so, playing Morrowind amoung other things. I've recently taken a break from Morrowind and I'm on my second game with 1.22. I'm not understanding all the gripes in this thread especially that the game is unplayable now. Yea the sub bug sucks (I never build subs anyway but...). I've been having a great time playing the game as I always have. Just don't get why people don't just sit back and enjoy the game sometimes instead of acting like the whole word is going to end or something if such and such bug never gets fixed...

 

[EdwardTking]

It's where the AI purposely runs into it, and automatically declares war, since the shortest distance path doesn't compensate for the sub, and there's probably some stack algorithm that says if 2 stacks (units) are of opposing players, attack and declare war (atleast for the AI).

In my current lengthy game, an AI ship took a diversion to avoid my
ships and run into a different AI's sub resulting in an AI - AI war!

 

[dexters]

Wow, what a thread. I've been away from C3C for about 6 months or so, playing Morrowind amoung other things. I've recently taken a break from Morrowind and I'm on my second game with 1.22. I'm not understanding all the gripes in this thread especially that the game is unplayable now. Yea the sub bug sucks (I never build subs anyway but...). I've been having a great time playing the game as I always have. Just don't get why people don't just sit back and enjoy the game sometimes instead of acting like the whole word is going to end or something if such and such bug never gets fixed...

No one's griping about the game being unplayable.

Many however are unhappy that 'important' gameplay elements are broken.

Broken Barbarians = less challenge in the early game
Broken Subs = 1 unit made considerably less effective
Broken Armies = annoyance (to some), major AI disadantage from on pov

I don't think we're asking very much and if you bothered reading the first post of this thread, its about the patch after 1.22 being put oh hold, leaving these bugs unaddressed for god knows how long. That's what's aggrevating me.

P.S. The non backwards compatibilty to older saves caused by Radio's removal is probably the straw the broke the camel's back when it came to my discontent over the current state of affairs. Having to swap files just to play old saves is a workaround, but certainly not a long term fix. Ideally, they'd fix it in the next patch so that all saves are compatible with the game.

 

[bonscott]

I understand. I just read many posts and threads by people saying 1.22 is so broken they can't stand playing the game anymore. I'm just not finding it that way. Perhaps I'm just in the minority.

 

[dexters]

I think it depends on how many bugs you can tolerate also.

There are many bugs I tolerate and accept as a gameplay feature - mainly the reputation issue where you get penalized for ending deals that is not your fault (trade route cut, civ gets eliminated). That is some deeply rooted AI issue that was made clear long ago can't be fixed with a patch, or would require so much resources, all other bugs won't get fixed.

I also use submarines extensively and I do play my game (intentionally or not) into the modern age so these units come into play. These subs being broken hit me more than others I suppose. But its also an issue with modders and scenario players as all invis units will trigger a war with a country when their unit walks into yours, inadvertently. What's really annoying though is this was fixed in PTW. So we know its fixable.

Can you play 1.22 and fully enjoy it with these bugs. of course. But its impact varies. That said, the barbarians and sub weren't broken before, and all we're asking is for them to be fixed back to where they were.

AI use of armies have always been spotty at best, but now they use them even less. If the don't fix it, I can live it with, but I'd them to do something about this to make the AI a bit more competitive expecially since armies got more powerful with C3C.