Balanced Ancient Era Start

[Dancing Hoskuld]

If it doesn't do the necessary prereq before auto assigning the building based on this tag, we can fix that. It really should make that check anyhow so it'd be good to test it to find out if it needs to be addressed.

I just tested it. It works, I got Sand (Beach) but not Sand (Desert). Unfortunately what i did not get was all the Myth buildings so we may need some python for that.

 

[Thunderbrd]

I just tested it. It works, I got Sand (Beach) but not Sand (Desert). Unfortunately what i did not get was all the Myth buildings so we may need some python for that.

I wonder how those buildings would've triggered the filter to ignore them... Any theories since you're their designer?

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

I suspect it is the iCost=-1 which all buildings that are built by units have.

 

[AIAndy]

I wonder how those buildings would've triggered the filter to ignore them... Any theories since you're their designer?

Myths require the palace but at the time when the free buildings are evaluated that has not been added yet (as it is capital specific). This can also cause issues with buildings that depend on other buildings.
For that reason NewCityFree ignores building dependencies (won't help with myths as you only want them in the capital) but FreeStartEra does not.

That means you will need some Python code for the any buildings that you want to add to the capital only.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Myths require the palace but at the time when the free buildings are evaluated that has not been added yet (as it is capital specific). This can also cause issues with buildings that depend on other buildings.
For that reason NewCityFree ignores building dependencies (won't help with myths as you only want them in the capital) but FreeStartEra does not.

That means you will need some Python code for the any buildings that you want to add to the capital only.

I am about to look at the second order buildings that should be free. I suspect that you are right and we will need to do these in python as well. We wont be able to use NewCityFree either because it ignores building dependencies.

We always were going to need python for the extra buildings in the capital.

 

[AIAndy]

I am about to look at the second order buildings that should be free. I suspect that you are right and we will need to do these in python as well. We wont be able to use NewCityFree either because it ignores building dependencies.

It ignores building dependencies but you can add your own conditions because it is an expression tag.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

So what we end up with is the first set of free buildings in at start. Then another set at turn 2 and so on until all the free buildings are built. Is that right?

 

[AIAndy]

So what we end up with is the first set of free buildings in at start. Then another set at turn 2 and so on until all the free buildings are built. Is that right?

No, it builds them all right away and assumes that if you tell it that a building that depends on other buildings is free then you will also make that other building free.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

No, it builds them all right away and assumes that if you tell it that a building that depends on other buildings is free then you will also make that other building free.

Which we can't guarantee because the precursor building may require a vicinity resource that is not available in this city.

 

[Faustmouse]

If you plan to make the freebuildingtag anyway, could you please do it in a way that it can be used in the Worldbuilder for late-game scenarios? Adding so many buildings one by one is very exhausting

 

[AIAndy]

Which we can't guarantee because the precursor building may require a vicinity resource that is not available in this city.

Well, you can put that vicinity resource condition in the expression.

But now that I think about it, the easier way would be to use a multi pass approach that can resolve such building dependencies to a degree.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

If you plan to make the freebuildingtag anyway, could you please do it in a way that it can be used in the Worldbuilder for late-game scenarios? Adding so many buildings one by one is very exhausting

Wont free buildings already be in newly built cities even when those placed in world builder? I will try it and see.

 

[Faustmouse]

Wont free buildings already be in newly built cities even when those placed in world builder? I will try it and see.

Honestly, I have no idea. I havnt played Civ since July but I wanted to start again once V27 is out

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

We probably should do a bit more on this. Since FreeStartEra does check for all preconditions I think we should add the following to free in ancient era starts.

Tar pit, all grain gatherers, all most all hunter camps and the elder council (note I have not checked if they go obsolete before the end of the era but I don't think any do.​

I need to write the Python to add the Myth buildings - AIAndy or others, do you know when the Palace is placed - should I use onEndTurn which happns just before the player starts their turn.

Well, you can put that vicinity resource condition in the expression.

But now that I think about it, the easier way would be to use a multi pass approach that can resolve such building dependencies to a degree.

@AIAndy, did you implement this?

Also does NewCityFree now heck for dependencies? If so we should stat looking at setting this tag also. Two I would suggest is Clay Pit at Pottery and Lumber Camp at Sedentary Lifestyle.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

yes double post

The following buildings are free are Colonialism due to Colonist unit, but it is done in Python so it would probably be better to move it to the XML. I suspect we will want to move them later anyway.

Add <NewCityFree>TECH_COLONIALISM</NewCityFree> to Barracks, Granary, Forge, Market, Harbor, Lighthouse, Fisherman's Hut​

Similarly the following are free at Steam Power due to Pioneer unit

Add <NewCityFree>TECH_STEAM_POWER</NewCityFree> to Garrison, Courthouse, Stable, Grocer, Doctor, Bank, Library​

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

and yes a third post

First cut suggestions for buildings made available in columns x1-x7 of the tech tree

Type PrereqTech ObsoleteTech Free at Tech Free on Era Start
BUILDING_CAVE_DWELLING TECH_CAVE_DWELLING TECH_TRIBALISM Never

BUILDING_WEAVER TECH_WEAVING (TECH_SHELTER_BUILDING) TECH_GLOBALIZATION Never
BUILDING_PAPYRUS_GROVE TECH_WEAVING TECH_PRINTING_PRESS TECH_AGRICULTURE Classic
BUILDING_YAK_FARM TECH_WEAVING (TECH_ANIMAL_HUSBANDRY) TECH_CROP_ROTATION

BUILDING_CARRION TECH_SCAVENGING TECH_COOKED_FOOD Never
BUILDING_TIDEPOOLS TECH_SCAVENGING TECH_FISHING Never
BUILDING_BUG_CATCHER TECH_SCAVENGING TECH_SERICULTURE TECH_SEDENTARY_LIFESTYLE Classic
BUILDING_BANDITS_HIDEOUT TECH_SCAVENGING TECH_GUERRILLA_WARFARE Never

BUILDING_FIREPIT TECH_CONTROLLED_FIRE TECH_IRON_WORKING TECH_SEDENTARY_LIFESTYLE
BUILDING_CAPTURED_FIRE TECH_CONTROLLED_FIRE TECH_THE_FIRE Never

BUILDING_WILD_HERBS TECH_HERBALISM TECH_AGRICULTURE TECH_SEDENTARY_LIFESTYLE

BUILDING_CHILDBIRTH_HUT TECH_SHELTER_BUILDING TECH_ANCIENT_MEDICINE Somewhere ancient

BUILDING_BASKETWEAVER TECH_BASKETRY (TECH_SHELTER_BUILDING) TECH_INDUSTRIALISM TECH_TRADE Classic
BUILDING_RATTAN_GROVE TECH_BASKETRY TECH_AGRICULTURE Classic

BUILDING_HUNTING_INSTRUCTION TECH_PERSISTENCE_HUNTING TECH_MILITARY_TRAINING TECH_HUNTING_TACTICS Ancient

BUILDING_TERMITE_MOUND TECH_TOOL_MAKING TECH_COOKED_FOOD Never
BUILDING_NUTCRACKING_STONE TECH_TOOL_MAKING TECH_AGRICULTURE Never

BUILDING_DINING_HALL TECH_COOKED_FOOD (TECH_SHELTER_BUILDING) TECH_CITY_PLANNING
BUILDING_SLAUGHTERHOUSE TECH_COOKED_FOOD (TECH_SHELTER_BUILDING)
BUILDING_SMOKEHOUSE TECH_COOKED_FOOD TECH_REFRIGERATION
BUILDING_BUTCHERY TECH_COOKED_FOOD (TECH_SHELTER_BUILDING)

BUILDING_STORYTELLERS_HUT TECH_ORAL_TRADITION (TECH_SHELTER_BUILDING) TECH_LITERATURE Never
BUILDING_KNOWLEDGE_INHERITANCE TECH_ORAL_TRADITION TECH_WRITING Never
BUILDING_CREATION_MYTH TECH_ORAL_TRADITION TECH_LITERATURE TECH_SEDENTARY_LIFESTYLE

BUILDING_ANIMAL_TRAPS TECH_TRAPPING TECH_ANIMAL_HUSBANDRY
BUILDING_OTTER_CAMP TECH_TRAPPING (TECH_SHELTER_BUILDING) TECH_GLOBALIZATION Somewhere Medieval Renaissance
BUILDING_BEAVER_TRAPS TECH_TRAPPING (TECH_SHELTER_BUILDING) TECH_GLOBALIZATION Somewhere Medieval Renaissance
BUILDING_CHINCHILLA_TRAPS TECH_TRAPPING (TECH_SHELTER_BUILDING) TECH_GLOBALIZATION Somewhere Medieval Renaissance
BUILDING_FOX_TRAPS TECH_TRAPPING (TECH_SHELTER_BUILDING) TECH_GLOBALIZATION Somewhere Medieval Renaissance
BUILDING_MINK_TRAPS TECH_TRAPPING (TECH_SHELTER_BUILDING) TECH_GLOBALIZATION Somewhere Medieval Renaissance
BUILDING_RACCOON_TRAPS TECH_TRAPPING (TECH_SHELTER_BUILDING) TECH_GLOBALIZATION Somewhere Medieval Renaissance
BUILDING_RABBIT_TRAPS TECH_TRAPPING (TECH_SHELTER_BUILDING) TECH_GLOBALIZATION Somewhere Medieval Renaissance

BUILDING_QUERN TECH_GROUND_STONES TECH_INDUSTRIALISM Somewhere Medieval Renaissance
BUILDING_WHEAT_GATHERER TECH_GROUND_STONES TECH_IRRIGATION TECH_AGRICULTURE
BUILDING_BARLEY_GATHERER TECH_GROUND_STONES TECH_IRRIGATION TECH_AGRICULTURE
BUILDING_RICE_GATHERER TECH_GROUND_STONES TECH_IRRIGATION TECH_AGRICULTURE
BUILDING_CORN_GATHERER TECH_GROUND_STONES TECH_IRRIGATION TECH_AGRICULTURE

BUILDING_MUSIC_HUT TECH_PREHISTORIC_MUSIC (TECH_SHELTER_BUILDING) TECH_ACOUSTICS Somewhere Classic Medieval
BUILDING_PERCUSSION_MAKER TECH_PREHISTORIC_MUSIC (TECH_SHELTER_BUILDING) Somewhere Medieval Renaissance
BUILDING_WOODWINDS_MAKER TECH_PREHISTORIC_MUSIC (TECH_SHELTER_BUILDING) Somewhere Medieval Renaissance


BUILDING_FIRE_DANCE TECH_PREHISTORIC_DANCE (TECH_CONTROLLED_FIRE) TECH_FOLK_DANCE
BUILDING_DANCE_HUT TECH_PREHISTORIC_DANCE (TECH_SHELTER_BUILDING) TECH_MUSIC TECH_SEDENTARY_LIFESTYLE Ancient

BUILDING_DEER_CAMP TECH_HUNTING (TECH_SHELTER_BUILDING) TECH_SEDENTARY_LIFESTYLE Ancient
BUILDING_ELEPHANT_CAMP TECH_HUNTING (TECH_SHELTER_BUILDING) TECH_SEDENTARY_LIFESTYLE Ancient
BUILDING_BOAR_CAMP TECH_HUNTING (TECH_SHELTER_BUILDING) TECH_SEDENTARY_LIFESTYLE Ancient
BUILDING_BISON_CAMP TECH_HUNTING (TECH_SHELTER_BUILDING) TECH_SEDENTARY_LIFESTYLE Ancient
BUILDING_MAMMOTH_CAMP TECH_HUNTING (TECH_SHELTER_BUILDING) TECH_SEDENTARY_LIFESTYLE Ancient
BUILDING_ANTELOPE_CAMP TECH_HUNTING (TECH_SHELTER_BUILDING) TECH_SEDENTARY_LIFESTYLE Ancient
BUILDING_AUROCHS_CAMP TECH_HUNTING (TECH_SHELTER_BUILDING) TECH_SEDENTARY_LIFESTYLE
BUILDING_MOUFLON_CAMP TECH_HUNTING (TECH_SHELTER_BUILDING) TECH_SEDENTARY_LIFESTYLE Ancient
BUILDING_ZEBRA_CAMP TECH_HUNTING (TECH_SHELTER_BUILDING) TECH_SEDENTARY_LIFESTYLE Ancient
BUILDING_MOOSE_CAMP TECH_HUNTING (TECH_SHELTER_BUILDING) TECH_SEDENTARY_LIFESTYLE Ancient
BUILDING_KANGAROO_CAMP TECH_HUNTING (TECH_SHELTER_BUILDING) TECH_SEDENTARY_LIFESTYLE Ancient
BUILDING_RHINO_CAMP TECH_HUNTING (TECH_SHELTER_BUILDING) TECH_SEDENTARY_LIFESTYLE Ancient
BUILDING_MUSKOX_CAMP TECH_HUNTING (TECH_SHELTER_BUILDING) TECH_SEDENTARY_LIFESTYLE Ancient
BUILDING_GIRAFFE_CAMP TECH_HUNTING (TECH_SHELTER_BUILDING) TECH_SEDENTARY_LIFESTYLE Ancient
BUILDING_DIPROTODON_CAMP TECH_HUNTING (TECH_SHELTER_BUILDING) TECH_SEDENTARY_LIFESTYLE
BUILDING_HIPPO_CAMP TECH_HUNTING (TECH_SHELTER_BUILDING) TECH_SEDENTARY_LIFESTYLE Ancient
BUILDING_CARIBOU_CAMP TECH_HUNTING (TECH_SHELTER_BUILDING) TECH_SEDENTARY_LIFESTYLE Ancient
BUILDING_WOOLLYRHINO_CAMP TECH_HUNTING (TECH_SHELTER_BUILDING) TECH_SEDENTARY_LIFESTYLE
BUILDING_MEGALOCEROS_CAMP TECH_HUNTING (TECH_SHELTER_BUILDING) TECH_SEDENTARY_LIFESTYLE
BUILDING_MEGATHERIUM_CAMP TECH_HUNTING (TECH_SHELTER_BUILDING) TECH_SEDENTARY_LIFESTYLE
BUILDING_ICEAGEBISON_CAMP TECH_HUNTING (TECH_SHELTER_BUILDING) TECH_SEDENTARY_LIFESTYLE
BUILDING_REINDEER_FARM TECH_HUNTING (TECH_SHELTER_BUILDING) TECH_SEDENTARY_LIFESTYLE Ancient

BUILDING_PUBLIC_STONING TECH_SOFT_HAMMER_PERCUSSION (TECH_RITUALISM) TECH_BRONZE_WORKING Ancient

BUILDING_DYE_MAKER TECH_NATURAL_PIGMENTS Classic
BUILDING_INDIGO_GATHERER TECH_NATURAL_PIGMENTS TECH_CROP_ROTATION
BUILDING_HENNA_GATHERER TECH_NATURAL_PIGMENTS TECH_CROP_ROTATION
BUILDING_HEALING_CLAY TECH_NATURAL_PIGMENTS (TECH_NATUROPATHY) TECH_MEDICINE Classic
BUILDING_MUD_BATH TECH_NATURAL_PIGMENTS (TECH_NATUROPATHY) TECH_SANITATION Classic
BUILDING_CLAY_PIT TECH_NATURAL_PIGMENTS TECH_POTTERY Classic
BUILDING_CHALK_PIT TECH_NATURAL_PIGMENTS TECH_MINING Classic
BUILDING_HEMATITE_PIT TECH_NATURAL_PIGMENTS TECH_MINING Classic
BUILDING_SANDPIT_DESERT TECH_NATURAL_PIGMENTS Ancient
BUILDING_SANDPIT_BEACH TECH_NATURAL_PIGMENTS Ancient
BUILDING_SANDPIT_STONE TECH_NATURAL_PIGMENTS Ancient

BUILDING_WALKABOUT TECH_RITUALISM TECH_DIVINATION Ancient
BUILDING_VISION_QUEST TECH_RITUALISM TECH_DIVINATION Ancient
BUILDING_OBELISK TECH_RITUALISM TECH_ASTRONOMY Classic
BUILDING_EGYPTIAN_OBELISK TECH_RITUALISM TECH_ASTRONOMY Classic

BUILDING_ZEBRA_HERD TECH_DOG_BREEDING Ancient
BUILDING_CAMEL_HERD TECH_DOG_BREEDING Ancient
BUILDING_COW_HERD TECH_DOG_BREEDING Ancient
BUILDING_DOG_KENNEL TECH_DOG_BREEDING
BUILDING_DONKEY_HERD TECH_DOG_BREEDING Ancient
BUILDING_HORSE_HERD TECH_DOG_BREEDING Ancient
BUILDING_MUSKOX_HERD TECH_DOG_BREEDING Ancient
BUILDING_PIG_HERD TECH_DOG_BREEDING Ancient
BUILDING_DOG_BREEDER TECH_DOG_BREEDING Ancient
BUILDING_HUNTING_DOGS TECH_DOG_BREEDING Ancient
BUILDING_SLED_DOGS TECH_DOG_BREEDING Ancient
BUILDING_WAR_DOGS TECH_DOG_BREEDING (TECH_MILITARY_TRAINING) TECH_CRIMINOLOGY Renaissance

BUILDING_POISONCRAFTERs_HUT TECH_POISON_CRAFTING (TECH_SHELTER_BUILDING) TECH_ALCHEMY Classic
BUILDING_CURARE TECH_POISON_CRAFTING (TECH_SHELTER_BUILDING) TECH_ALCHEMY Classic
BUILDING_BELLADONNA TECH_POISON_CRAFTING (TECH_SHELTER_BUILDING) TECH_ALCHEMY Classic
BUILDING_DEATHCAP_MUSHROOM TECH_POISON_CRAFTING (TECH_FUNGICULTURE) TECH_ALCHEMY Classic

BUILDING_JUGGLERS_BOOTH TECH_GAMES TECH_MASS_MEDIA Classic
BUILDING_PLAYINGFIELDS TECH_GAMES TECH_TEAM_SPORTS Classic

BUILDING_ELDER_COUNCIL TECH_CULTURAL_IDENTITY TECH_WRITING TECH_IDOGRAMS Ancient

National Wonders
BUILDING_BULL_LEAPING TECH_PREHISTORIC_DANCE TECH_COMBAT_SPORTS Classic

Remember buildings will only appear in cities that have all the prerequsites, so not all these buildings will appear in the one city.

 

[Hydromancerx]

@Dancing Hoskuld

So these buildings auto-build when you reach different techs? What happens if you don't want them built in your city?

Also won't that just encourage people to build units instead because if they put off making a building it will just be made anyways. And don't some wonders and the guilds do this already?

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

@Dancing Hoskuld

So these buildings auto-build when you reach different techs?

No they don't auto build they come free with new cities only. Existing cities will still need to build them.

What happens if you don't want them built in your city?

Not all buildings will be free. The crime fighting ones may be but the crime making buildings like Poison Crafter, Merc buildings and other thief line buildings wont. Nor will military buildings probably. That is what we need to decide. Once we have decided then "Tough" is the answer because you wont be able to get rid of them.

Also won't that just encourage people to build units instead because if they put off making a building it will just be made anyways. And don't some wonders and the guilds do this already?

By the time the Renaissance comes around there are almost 100 buildings available to be built in a new city at least 10 are essential before the city can even be considered ready to build anything, I usually build 50-100 buildings in a new city before I start building units in it since they are just not advanced enough to be worth it.

I have not even got past the seventh column of techs and are nowhere near any building that is given by a wonder (world or national) yet!

BTW blank is the same as never in the table.

 

[Thunderbrd]

I would say we shouldn't add ANY buildings for free on build when those buildings have ANY negatives at all - particularly the crime fighting buildings is what stood out for me but there could be others. Some players may prefer not to build them at all (my wife doesn't usually.)

 

[Hydromancerx]

No they don't auto build they come free with new cities only. Existing cities will still need to build them.

OH! That makes a HUGE difference. Nevermind then.