[NFP] Barbarian Clans Game Mode Discussion

[UWHabs]

I have no iron at all!

I don't even remember last time I ran out of iron, I had completely forgotten that was a thing. Thanks for spotting it.

Yeah, I had a similar case in my game. Hired a bard Horseman, and after a few battles, I started to wonder why it wasn't healing up anymore. Took me a long time to remember "OOHH! I have no horses!". Rarely now do I not have any spare resources, and also the fact that I knew I had horses like 5-6 tiles away from my capital that I was planning to settle but just hadn't gotten around to yet, my brain just assumed they were already connected.

 

[Tuvok694]

I hate it, I hate it so much.
Barbarians were totally overpowered before this new useless "clans mode" and now they are even stronger because they come with special units.
And with more units. And they are even more aggressive than before. And they act "smart", for example by pillaging the holy site continously and preventing me from getting a religion.
In the future I will turn off that clans mode but I still have the problem that above level king no science or culture based strategy works because you can only build units, units, units.

 

[Abaxial]

In my current game, late on I am exploring a remote area ruled by the USA, and there is Lahore. And I spot that Lahore has eagle warriors. No prizes for guessing how that happened.

 

[enKage]

It is my bad luck or do barbs just stop spawning new camps after certain number of tribes turn into city state?

 

[Cuneiform]

Ok so something is badly wrong with the new Barbarian Mode at the moment.

I recently started a custom Epic game on a large "Terra" map where I enabled the new mode and limited the amount of City States to 10.

I'm about 350 turns into the game and now exploring the unsettled continent, the total number of City States that I've currently made contact with is 21 and I've not even fully uncovered the whole map yet!

It seems that when given a whole continent to themselves the Barbarians just ignore any sort of City State cap.

 

[8housesofelixir]

It seems that when given a whole continent to themselves the Barbarians just ignore any sort of City State cap.

The Barbarian CS is designed to ignore the CS cap that is in the game settings.

The CS cap is only for natural CS spawning when a map is generated, and Barb CS are not belonged to this group.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Ok so something is badly wrong with the new Barbarian Mode at the moment.

I recently started a custom Epic game on a large "Terra" map where I enabled the new mode and limited the amount of City States to 10.

I'm about 350 turns into the game and now exploring the unsettled continent, the total number of City States that I've currently made contact with is 21 and I've not even fully uncovered the whole map yet!

It seems that when given a whole continent to themselves the Barbarians just ignore any sort of City State cap.

When you limit the amount of city-states on the game setup it only means that 10 city-states will spawn at the start of the game, as it normally would.

The total cap on how many barb camps will become city-states is set by the number of city-states you select in the city-state picker.

 

[nzcamel]

In the future I will turn off that clans mode but I still have the problem that above level king no science or culture based strategy works because you can only build units, units, units.

But people do get non military win conditions on levels above King. Yes, units are extra important in the early game, but that doesn't mean that your whole game has to hinge around them and only them. Once you have a reasonable deterrent force, you don't have to build many at all.

 

[Cuneiform]

The Barbarian CS is designed to ignore the CS cap that is in the game settings.

The CS cap is only for natural CS spawning when a map is generated, and Barb CS are not belonged to this group.

That was the conclusion I eventually came to as well, the problem is that the Civilopedia wasn't very useful in pointing this out when it says "Based on the games settings, only a certain number of Clan conversions can occur."

So unless you disable some City-States in the picker option before starting, its theoretically possible that the Barbarian Camps could spawn up to 48 City-States in the same game.

 

[The_Kalkkuna]

It is my bad luck or do barbs just stop spawning new camps after certain number of tribes turn into city state?

I had the same experience. After a certain point, no new barbs spawned. They still had plenty of room to spawn, they just didn't.

 

[Deadly Dog]

I hate it, I hate it so much.
Barbarians were totally overpowered before this new useless "clans mode" and now they are even stronger because they come with special units.
And with more units. And they are even more aggressive than before. And they act "smart", for example by pillaging the holy site continously and preventing me from getting a religion.
In the future I will turn off that clans mode but I still have the problem that above level king no science or culture based strategy works because you can only build units, units, units.

Only now you don't have to build them you can buy them from the clans! On a regular warriors it seems to be almost a 40% discount over purchasing one in your city.

Also...if you need defense against barbs or AI, building/having a galley or a chariot will give all your cities a higher garrison strength, even the unoccupied ones. And adds to your military rating which the AI uses to determine if you're weak enough to bully. Not sure what a barb qudrireme will add if you bought one, but they are the cost of 3 barb warriors.

 

[Abaxial]

One unexpected consequence - it becomes harder to join the Sanguine Pact. You are not guaranteed an invite after the first couple of dispersed barbarian camps, and quite soon there are no more to disperse.

Also, Sinbad is much less useful unless you get him early - no barbarian camps or naval units to attack.

 

[aieeegrunt]

That was the conclusion I eventually came to as well, the problem is that the Civilopedia wasn't very useful in pointing this out when it says "Based on the games settings, only a certain number of Clan conversions can occur."

So unless you disable some City-States in the picker option before starting, its theoretically possible that the Barbarian Camps could spawn up to 48 City-States in the same game.

Fireaxis wins the prize for “this is a simple mechankc we have somehow made completely opaque” previously held by Paradox

I still don’t know how leader pools work. Why are there two? What does picking a civ mean? Do you have to use both?

No matter what I do I am still cursed with Canada in Every. Single. Game.

 

[Buktu]

I still don’t know how leader pools work. Why are there two? What does picking a civ mean? Do you have to use both?

C'mon its not that hard... Everything you pick for a pool is in the pool. You can choose for every player, wether it is AI or Human, which pool of civs they can use. I guess there are two pools because you might want to play different civs than you want to AI to play so you can pick all the civs you dont mind to play in pool 1 and everything you want to AI to play in pool 2. Then you assign yourself to pool 1 and the AI to pool 2. You can also just use one pool.

 

[aieeegrunt]

C'mon its not that hard... Everything you pick for a pool is in the pool. You can choose for every player, wether it is AI or Human, which pool of civs they can use. I guess there are two pools because you might want to play different civs than you want to AI to play so you can pick all the civs you dont mind to play in pool 1 and everything you want to AI to play in pool 2. Then you assign yourself to pool 1 and the AI to pool 2. You can also just use one pool.

I have literally done exactly this and had the civs I deselected show up in game

I tried every permutation (using one or the other pool, both pools etc)

What’s ridiculous is that I had to do a bunch of trial and error games just trying to figure it out, instead of Fireaxis taking literally ten seconds to label the thing

That is absolutly redonkulus laziness and lack of care in your work, which is the single biggest strike against civ6.

 

[Abaxial]

I have literally done exactly this and had the civs I deselected show up in game

Did you remember to add civs as "Random (pool 1)" instead of "Random"?

 

[aieeegrunt]

Did you remember to add civs as "Random (pool 1)" instead of "Random"?

Nope, because I didn’t even know that this 1100% uneccessary step existed, because nowhere is that indicated.

This UI is uniformly awful. How the teufel does the policy screen NOT show me how the yields will be affected BEFORE I pick them?

I used to work as a project manager for a dev company that made software for real estate agents; who’s skillset is obviously NOT in computer stuff (nor should it be) and our agents loved how easy to use our stuff is

Meanwhile Firaxis is making a UI for the nerdiest of the nerds and fails spectacularly.

 

[Buktu]

because nowhere is that indicated.

To be fair since you can already select 2 different pools of leaders it just makes sense that there is an option to toggle which pool to use for which player. I mean this would not work out otherwise.

This UI is uniformly awful. How the teufel does the policy screen NOT show me how the yields will be affected BEFORE I pick them?

At least there is a mod for this (extended policy cards, I think it requires the mod better report screens as well) but I agree thats something I want in the UI as well (basically all the things from better report screens).

 

[aieeegrunt]

To be fair since you can already select 2 different pools of leaders it just makes sense that there is an option to toggle which pool to use for which player. I mean this would not work out otherwise.



At least there is a mod for this (extended policy cards, I think it requires the mod better report screens as well) but I agree thats something I want in the UI as well (basically all the things from better report screens).

The mechanics are’nt the problem, but any damn fool can code that

The complete lack of documentation and explanation makes the mechanics useless of course

 

[AntSou]

I agree that the UI could be better in many regards, but I don't see the issue when it comes to pools.

You put Civs in a pool. You select the pool.

The problem I have with it is that we're limited to two. Why not as many as I please and the ability to name them what I please?So I'll still end up using random generators outside the game when playing against the AI.

What I need:

- Player Pool
- Vanilla Pool
- DLC Pool
- R&F Pool
- GS Pool
- NFP Pool

OR

Militaristic Pool
Religious Pool
Scientific Pool
Etc...

It's too limiting as it is.