[R&F] Based on the new features - which civilizations and leaders should be introduced in R&F?

[evanaurora]

My own list, just in terms of gut feeling:

• Byzantium
• Korea
• The Netherlands (the posters' confidence on here has convinced me, lol)
• The Zulu, or a W/SW African civ (Mali or Ghana seem good candidates, or maybe a NW African civ like Morocco, a possibility I haven't seen anyone bring up but doesn't seem out of the question to me)
• A North American native group (at long last!)
• probably another European power; Portugal seems a good guess
• possibly the Maya or the Inca; the Americas have been chronically underrepresented so far, so they'll either continue the trend or take (meager) steps to remedy the situtation
• a dark horse/miscellaneous civ, perhaps one that hasn't been part of the franchise before (hopefully not Canada... if Canada, then I'd guess something from another region of the world instead of Portugal; maybe the Mongols, although I'm not as optimistic about them as some seem to be)

I'd guess, although I could be wrong, that they'd try to pull from a wider span of time, as well as geographical diversity. Probably with some weight toward mid/later game, although it seems likely the second expansion will be the one really dedicated to late game a la BNW.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

I just thought of how hilariously anglo-centric the game would be if they introduced Canada and Elizabeth was the alt-leader.

 

[Boccages]

The Dutch civilization helmed by Johan de Witt would be a great addition!

 

[liv]

Canada is part French and we could have a "French" leader rather than an English one
(As I said above without an alternate capital, Elizabeth may not be there)

 

[Siptah]

They were screwed over by disease brought by the Europeans as well as the dispossession of land, that's why they didn't become important. Notice how no Amerindian countries exist throughout the Americas. All thanks to the Europeans and their descendants.
You would rather have North America only represented by Canada and USA, two White Anglo dominated post-colonial nations? Can this game be any more Eurocentric?

Hey, that's not fair! Without white Europeans, North Amerindians wouldn't even know what a casino is!


I'll see myself out.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

Canada is part French and we could have a "French" leader rather than an English one
(As I said above without an alternate capital, Elizabeth may not be there)

Yes, I've been a proponent of Samuel de Champlain for Canada.

 

[Phoenix1595]

While I like the list in general (minus the Zulu), I'm missing surprises. It would be a great expansion, but I would be a bit disappointed because there aren't any real surprises. Sure, the Apache would be a new civ, but it seems very likely that a new North Ameridian civ will appear. And while the Apaches wouldn't be my choice, they certainly are amongst the most known (and cliché) and thus wouldn't surprise me. You know, that excitement, like when the Khmer First Look popped up. Especially now that we don't have any real clues who might be in.

I agree-- at least one civ will be an off-the-wall, out-of-left-field candidate, based on the previous Civ6 pattern. Given the discussion on the mysterious Persian sea fortress in the screeshot thread, could there be a possible West Indian Ocean civ in the works, like Oman or the Swahili? If we think about it, the region really hasn't been in the game so far, despite a lot of good history there. My only concern is that I still can't connect the mystery building to a potential Indian Ocean civ, since the screenshot shows the city isn't based on a Middle Eastern/Persian design.

 

[SammyKhalifa]

Yes, I've been a proponent of Samuel de Champlain for Canada.

French Canada, Iroquois, US, England, and France sounds like a scenario waiting to happen.

 

[Siptah]

I agree-- at least one civ will be an off-the-wall, out-of-left-field candidate, based on the previous Civ6 pattern. Given the discussion on the mysterious Persian sea fortress in the screeshot thread, could there be a possible West Indian Ocean civ in the works, like Oman or the Swahili? If we think about it, the region really hasn't been in the game so far, despite a lot of good history there. My only concern is that I still can't connect the mystery building to a potential Indian Ocean civ, since the screenshot shows the city isn't based on a Middle Eastern/Persian design.

Both Oman and Swahili would be highly welcome and indeed surprises, at least for me. But you probably won't find a lot of good female leaders for either of the two. And if you display Swahili as too Arabic/Persian influenced, some groups will take an offense since they would want it to be more African.

 

[Zaarin]

I was just thinking in re: alt leader, that they could very well include an early Byzantine ruler for Rome, with his/her capital in Constantinople. I know it is a stretch, but this could satisfy the need to include the Byzantines without actually adding a whole new civ with many overlapping cities/traits. They could even link the Legion and/or Bath to Trajan and give said Byzantine the hippodrome/Byzantine cavalry or fireship.

Plus, with the news that there will be a female leader with an ability tied to the new ages system, this would make sense, given the many ups and downs of the Second Rome.

Just a crazy idea.

I understand the arguments for folding the Byzantines into Rome, but IMO the Byzantines developed a distinctly different character from Rome: they were deeply religious (one historian remarked that one couldn't buy bread at the market without hearing a debate on Christology), their military tactics were distinct (more naval and equestrian focused), they spoke Greek rather than Latin, they developed a distinct style of architecture, etc. Despite overall being a little bored with Hellenes, I think the Byzantines should be their own civ, and to give them more distance from Rome and Greece I think they should have a Medieval leader like a Komnenos.

 

[SammyKhalifa]

I understand the arguments for folding the Byzantines into Rome, but IMO the Byzantines developed a distinctly different character from Rome: they were deeply religious (one historian remarked that one couldn't buy bread at the market without hearing a debate on Christology), their military tactics were distinct (more naval and equestrian focused), they spoke Greek rather than Latin, they developed a distinct style of architecture, etc. Despite overall being a little bored with Hellenes, I think the Byzantines should be their own civ, and to give them more distance from Rome and Greece I think they should have a Medieval leader like a Komnenos.

This is definitely a case where I've been converted over the years. I used to think they should just be included with Rome.

 

[Zaarin]

This is definitely a case where I've been converted over the years. I used to think they should just be included with Rome.

Like I said, I understand the arguments for it; I just don't think it represents the reality of the Byzantine civilization when it was at its height. And arguments for leaders like Constantine don't even vaguely represent Byzantium; I don't think anyone would argue that Constantine was anything but Roman.

 

[Guatenadian]

Here's my list:

Byzantium-A personal favourite of mine back in CivV, Im hoping for a reappearance.
Portugal-I've been very split between Portugal and the Dutch but if the mystery building turns out to be a Feitoria then the Portugese are much more likely.
Korea-Due to the overwhelming evidence in the trailer this will definitely be in.
Inca-We need another non-colonial Civ in the Americas and the Inca should be the ones.
Mali- We're in need of some more African Civs and seeing the return of Mali has been long wanted by fans.
Mongolia- Due to what appears to be Mongol warriors in the trailer there's a good chance theyll be in the game.
Native North American Civ- I feel somewhat bad with not stating a specific tribe, but there is a huge amount of potential from the tribes.
Georgia-I immediately thought of Georgia during the entire announcement, they seem like a great choice.

Potential/Dark Horses

Hungary-Long waited and would be a curveball.
Canada-Due to the inclusion of the Chateau Frontenac, and the fact that some of the new mechanics would work well with Canada points to the possibility of Canada as a Civ.
Netherlands-Due to their inclusion in the trailer they are a likely Civ.
Zulu-Due to tradition I don't see any reason why the Zulu wouldn't make it into game.
Maya-Very likely, the Americas are very empty at the moment so it would be good to fill them up.

 

[HanNorwood]

Tamar of Georgia.

 

[Craig_Sutter]

Champlain was a governor... for France. I cannot see any see any Canada civ modeled after New France. It would be like having a pre-revolutionary leader for America. He would be British.

Being Canadian, I'd be all for a Canada civ, in due time... I think a DLC would be fine, not certain about this expansion though. Lots of great civs to go.

If there were to be a civ though, I think that a trading post improvement might work (sitting in for Hudson Bay Company trading posts). It would be buildable outside city areas along trade routes, and provide an extra trading post along trade routes thus improving gold.

 

[Guandao]

Here's my guesses:
Likely:
Korea- if Sean Bean's daughter dressed like a Silla Queen were any indication. However Winged Hussars appear in the base game intro movie and Poland was a DLC civ. Seoul will have to be replaced.
Mongolia-the scene after Korea one seems to allude to them. Perhaps they will have a female leader this time.
Netherlands-the WWII scene seems to hint at them, maybe Wilhelmina is the leader instead of Willem van Oranje. Amsterdam will have to be replaced.
Italy/Florence/Venice-The plague doctor scene seems to suggest them. And the lack of Italian City States is telling.
Phoenicia-the lack of Phoenician city states means they are possible
Canada-due to fan demand, and the appearance of Chateau Frontenac, Toronto will have to be replaced
Celts-lack of Celtic CS except for Armagh, they might use Boudicca or Cartimandua
Portugal-if the domed courtyard building is a Feitoria, Lisbon will have to be replaced. Could have Maria I as the leader again.

Somewhat likely:
Maya-they might wait until the 2nd expansion to put them, since Aztecs are already in Mesoamerica
Austria-no Vienna CS is telling, another return of Maria Theresa?
Babylon-no Babylon CS, has been in every Civ game
Byzantines-Roman City list makes room for them, they might use Theodora again or another Empress
Carthage-Carthage is a CS, so it will have to be replaced
Incas-no Cusco CS, but for some reason I think they aren't getting in
Iroquois/other North Amerindian people-no hints towards them so far, Firaxis might consider them unworthy of representation.
Morocco-nothing rules them out, no Marrakech CS
Ottomans-nothing rules them out, could have Roxelana as the leader
Mali/Songhai-no Timbuktu/Gao CS, nothing rules them out
Sweden-nothing rules them out, could have Christina as the leader, Stockholm will have to be replaced
Zulu-nothing rules them out, has been in every Civ game
Hittites-Hattusa will have to be replaced, but they haven't been a Civ since Civ3
Ashanti/Benin/other Coastal West African-they have some female leaders, so they are a possibility, Kumasi will have to be replaced.
Nepal-could be a substitute for Tibet, no Kathmandu CS
Sri Lanka-Kandy will have to be replaced
Timurids-a possibility, no Samarkand CS
Madagascar-Antananarivo will have to be replaced, Ranavalona I can be the leader
Georgia- Tamar is too good of a leader choice to ignore
Finland-no Helsinki CS
Lithuania-Vilnius will have to be replaced
Czechia-no Prague CS
Serbia-no Belgrade CS
Bulgaria-Preslav will have to be replaced
Romania-no Bucharest CS
Switzerland-Geneva will have to be replaced
Belgium-Brussels will have to be replaced
Gran Colombia/Argentina-Buenos Aires will have to be replaced.
Yemen-Arwa al-Sulayhi is a good female leader, they might consider them part of Arabia though
Afghanistan-Kabul will have to be replaced, lack of female leaders

Less Likely:
Assyria-Sumeria has taken their spot
Denmark-Norway has taken their spot, but they could return with a Renaissance focus, or maybe with Margaret as the leader.
Ethiopia-Nubia has taken their spot, and Sukritact created a good mod for them
Huns-Scythia has taken their spot
Polynesia/Maori/Hawaii-unpopular Civ, and Norway/Indonesia have taken their abilities
Siam/Vietnam/Burma/Philippines-Firaxis will probably consider SE Asia to be well represented at the moment
Muisca/Tupi/Taino/Mapuche/Chimu/other South American Indians-I don't think they are likely. Too much research required for the languages, and South America has long been ignored by Firaxis

Not happening:
Israel
Tibet
Australian Aboriginals
Armenia
Siberians

 

[Zaarin]

Hmm, here's my prediction:

Korea
Mongolia
Netherlands (could be Portugal, but that "feitora" looks like a wonder and we already have a Portuguese-speaking civ, albeit the wrong one, in the game--not that that's prevented them from including three English-speaking civs with the threat looming of a fourth)
Georgia
Maya
Iroquois
An African civ (I'd love to see Ethiopia, personally, but Mali is a possibility)
The Ottomans
Otto von Bismarck (the new alliances just beg for him)

What I think we won't see:
The Byzantines: The Balkans are so overflowing I don't think we'll see them until the next EP
A new African civ: Because of Nubia.
The Zulu: Because we have a lot of warmongers right now and it doesn't fit thematically; I think they'll be a DLC in the future.
The Inca: Just a hunch.
Any civ from Southeast Asia: Because we just got a DLC with two of them.

 

[Guandao]

Hmm, here's my prediction:

Korea
Mongolia
Netherlands (could be Portugal, but that "feitora" looks like a wonder and we already have a Portuguese-speaking civ, albeit the wrong one, in the game--not that that's prevented them from including three English-speaking civs with the threat looming of a fourth)
Georgia
Maya
Iroquois
An African civ (I'd love to see Ethiopia, personally, but Mali is a possibility)
The Ottomans
Otto von Bismarck (the new alliances just beg for him)

What I think we won't see:
The Byzantines: The Balkans are so overflowing I don't think we'll see them until the next EP
A new African civ: Because of Nubia.
The Zulu: Because we have a lot of warmongers right now and it doesn't fit thematically; I think they'll be a DLC in the future.
The Inca: Just a hunch.
Any civ from Southeast Asia: Because we just got a DLC with two of them.

Would Korea, Mongolia, Netherlands, Georgia, Maya, Iroquois and Ottomans all have female leaders?

Do you think my 8 likely Civs is a Eurocentric lineup?

 

[God of Kings]

Canada-due to fan demand, and the appearance of Chateau Frontenac

Toronto would be replaced

 

[Vahnstad]

I just thought of how hilariously anglo-centric the game would be if they introduced Canada and Elizabeth was the alt-leader.

The Hellenics would still be better off.