[R&F] Based on the new features - which civilizations and leaders should be introduced in R&F?

[bite]

You know I posted this on twitter but after some of the criticisms of Queen Seondeok (not all of them mind you) I kind of want every leader in the expansion to be a woman, Catherine, come on down, Tamar you can do it, Wilhelmina Yes we can, Hatshepsut I'm on board, Zenobia, Boudicca, the Trung Sisters, Elizabeth, Isabella, Dido, Theodora, Nanye'hi, Amina, Maria Theresa, Yaa Asantewaa, Omphale, Idia, Nzinga Mbande, Jigonhasasee, Taytu Betul, Shammuramat, Liliʻuokalani and many many more.

You know what, bring on Jeanne d'Arc.

 

[chronoturner]

You know I posted this on twitter but after some of the criticisms of Queen Seondeok (not all of them mind you) I kind of want every leader in the expansion to be a woman, Catherine, come on down, Tamar you can do it, Wilhelmina Yes we can, Hatshepsut I'm on board, Zenobia, Boudicca, the Trung Sisters, Elizabeth, Isabella, Dido, Theodora, Nanye'hi, Amina, Maria Theresa, Yaa Asantewaa, Omphale, Idia, Nzinga Mbande, Jigonhasasee, Taytu Betul, Shammuramat, Liliʻuokalani and many many more.

You know what, bring on Jeanne d'Arc.

I'd honestly love seeing the reaction to that, haha.

 

[nukehumvee]

I like to see female leaders. The thing is that they dont actually have to choose questionable leaders like Gorgo. There are valid female leaders that have never been in the game, like for example Margaret I of Denmark, Tamar of Georgia or Zewditu of Ethiopia.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margaret_I_of_Denmark
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tamar_of_Georgia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zewditu

How was Gorgo questionable? She was Leonidas' wife and Leonidas was the Spartan king during Thermopylae.

 

[h0nk0815]

How was Gorgo questionable?

Answer:

She was (just) Leonidas' wife and Leonidas was the Spartan king during Thermopylae.

 

[Absolution]

Not e

How was Gorgo questionable? She was Leonidas' wife and Leonidas was the Spartan king during Thermopylae.

Still a wife.
Why take a slot of another great ruler and fill it with somone who's only been a wife of a real ruler?
Some wives, like Theodora or Myeongseong had real historical importance as leaders of states, but not every one.

Other than being an insult for historical feminism (couldn't they find ancient women who were more than just wives?), adding Grogo bothers me simply becuase we could have seen a real interesting leader instead of her.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

You know I posted this on twitter but after some of the criticisms of Queen Seondeok (not all of them mind you) I kind of want every leader in the expansion to be a woman, Catherine, come on down, Tamar you can do it, Wilhelmina Yes we can, Hatshepsut I'm on board, Zenobia, Boudicca, the Trung Sisters, Elizabeth, Isabella, Dido, Theodora, Nanye'hi, Amina, Maria Theresa, Yaa Asantewaa, Omphale, Idia, Nzinga Mbande, Jigonhasasee, Taytu Betul, Shammuramat, Liliʻuokalani and many many more.

You know what, bring on Jeanne d'Arc.

An idea so nice, I want to "like" it twice.

 

[Vahnstad]

Eva Peron and Lady SIx Sky are also desired and welcomed! And of course Margaret! And i had love to see those pretty woman denouncing me. That would be intimidating, especially if the entire game denounces you in the same turn... Yeah i'm a bad guy, deal with it!

 

[Cerilis]

You know I posted this on twitter but after some of the criticisms of Queen Seondeok (not all of them mind you) I kind of want every leader in the expansion to be a woman, Catherine, come on down, Tamar you can do it, Wilhelmina Yes we can, Hatshepsut I'm on board, Zenobia, Boudicca, the Trung Sisters, Elizabeth, Isabella, Dido, Theodora, Nanye'hi, Amina, Maria Theresa, Yaa Asantewaa, Omphale, Idia, Nzinga Mbande, Jigonhasasee, Taytu Betul, Shammuramat, Liliʻuokalani and many many more.

You know what, bring on Jeanne d'Arc.

I raise: 8 female leaders and Akhenaten depicted as transgender.

 

[bite]

I raise: 8 female leaders and Akhenaten depicted as transgender.

Sure why not, the more the merrier

 

[PhilBowles]

I've seen some speculation for Zewditu for Ethiopia, but I don't think she was nearly as influential as some people want. During her reign she was basically a puppet for Ras Tafari (Haile Selassie), sadly enough.

Haile Selassie or Taytu Betul would be much better fits for Ethiopia, in my mind, or hell, even the Queen of Sheba! Zewditu, however, did not do much, or had not much effect. In fact, Haile Selassie is more applicable to the Rise and Fall theme of the expansion, but I don't think we'll see him, as he appeared in Civ 5.

Queen of Sheba? Aside from the fact that we don't know her identity Saba (Sheba) is Yemen, not Ethiopia.

 

[Xandinho]

You know I posted this on twitter but after some of the criticisms of Queen Seondeok (not all of them mind you) I kind of want every leader in the expansion to be a woman, Catherine, come on down, Tamar you can do it, Wilhelmina Yes we can, Hatshepsut I'm on board, Zenobia, Boudicca, the Trung Sisters, Elizabeth, Isabella, Dido, Theodora, Nanye'hi, Amina, Maria Theresa, Yaa Asantewaa, Omphale, Idia, Nzinga Mbande, Jigonhasasee, Taytu Betul, Shammuramat, Liliʻuokalani and many many more.

You know what, bring on Jeanne d'Arc.

I can live with all of them.

But please, Jeanne d'Arc not, please, I beg.

 

[OzzyKP]

Not e

Still a wife.
Why take a slot of another great ruler and fill it with somone who's only been a wife of a real ruler?
Some wives, like Theodora or Myeongseong had real historical importance as leaders of states, but not every one.

Other than being an insult for historical feminism (couldn't they find ancient women who were more than just wives?), adding Grogo bothers me simply becuase we could have seen a real interesting leader instead of her.

Speaking of Civ leaders who never actually were political rulers of their country, we should drop Mahatma Gandhi. Better yet, we could replace him with Indira Gandhi.

 

[Hakan-i Cihan]

Speaking of Civ leaders who never actually were political rulers of their country, we should drop Mahatma Gandhi. Better yet, we could replace him with Indira Gandhi.

Indira Gandhi or her husband is not a family of Mahatma Gandhi, if that is what you are hinting at. But I also hope that India would get a "real" leader instead of every time Mahatma Gandhi.

 

[chronoturner]

Queen of Sheba? Aside from the fact that we don't know her identity Saba (Sheba) is Yemen, not Ethiopia.

In Ethiopian tradition, the royal family claimed to be descendants from the King Solomon and the Queen of Sheba, if I recall correctly.
But that's neither here nor there, as the Queen of Sheba suggestion was mostly a joke.

 

[WillowBrook]

Indira Gandhi or her husband is not a family of Mahatma Gandhi, if that is what you are hinting at. But I also hope that India would get a "real" leader instead of every time Mahatma Gandhi.

I think that was his point. She had a real political position. If they want to use someone with that name for India, she's the one they should choose. Especially if you're someone complaining that Gorgo was merely the wife of the king.

 

[nukehumvee]

Not e

Still a wife.
Why take a slot of another great ruler and fill it with somone who's only been a wife of a real ruler?
Some wives, like Theodora or Myeongseong had real historical importance as leaders of states, but not every one.

Other than being an insult for historical feminism (couldn't they find ancient women who were more than just wives?), adding Grogo bothers me simply becuase we could have seen a real interesting leader instead of her.

You're right, it bothers me. Sometimes I imagined they could have put Leonidas instead, but like what the First Look has mentioned, Gorgo was an outspoken woman in Ancient Greece.

Also, Civ (Eleanor Roosevelt) has (Amaterasu) a history (Gunnhild) of putting (Nazca) non-leaders (Shakala) in charge. Which also includes Mohandas Gandhi.

 

[BUNDESKAISER]

civilizations in R&F :
NOD Brotherhood
GDI
Byzantine Empire (with byzantine buildings and music)
Slovakia
Morocco
Palestine
Korea
Israel
Bulgaria
Finland
Sweden

 

[Absolution]

Speaking of Civ leaders who never actually were political rulers of their country, we should drop Mahatma Gandhi. Better yet, we could replace him with Indira Gandhi.

You're right, it bothers me. Sometimes I imagined they could have put Leonidas instead, but like what the First Look has mentioned, Gorgo was an outspoken woman in Ancient Greece.

Also, Civ (Eleanor Roosevelt) has (Amaterasu) a history (Gunnhild) of putting (Nazca) non-leaders (Shakala) in charge. Which also includes Mohandas Gandhi.

You two got me - I am a long time supporter of replacing him with Nehru.

 

[Janskey]

The story of Finland has been mostly fall before it's independence, and an exceptional rise afterwards.
Some random stats comparing Finland in ~1917 and now (e.g. maternal deaths went down from 374 in 1936 to 2 in 2015; life expectancy nearly doubled; and just look at that number of motorcycles ):
http://www.tilastokeskus.fi/ajk/satavuotiassuomi/suomiennenjanyt/vuosisadanvertailut_en.html
(the last item's title is in Swedish for some reason, it's the number of doctors)

You know I posted this on twitter but after some of the criticisms of Queen Seondeok (not all of them mind you) I kind of want every leader in the expansion to be a woman, Catherine, come on down, Tamar you can do it, Wilhelmina Yes we can, Hatshepsut I'm on board, Zenobia, Boudicca, the Trung Sisters, Elizabeth, Isabella, Dido, Theodora, Nanye'hi, Amina, Maria Theresa, Yaa Asantewaa, Omphale, Idia, Nzinga Mbande, Jigonhasasee, Taytu Betul, Shammuramat, Liliʻuokalani and many many more.

You know what, bring on Jeanne d'Arc.

I'd probably have fun reading the reactions too, but on a more serious note, it's stuff like this that has most likely created the whole "great divide" on the internet. It can have detrimental consequences, maybe even worse than Trump.
https://www.nature.com/news/how-facebook-fake-news-and-friends-are-warping-your-memory-1.21596

 

[Guandao]

civilizations in R&F :
NOD Brotherhood
GDI
Byzantine Empire (with byzantine buildings and music)
Slovakia
Morocco
Palestine
Korea
Israel
Bulgaria
Finland
Sweden

What is NOD Brotherhood and GDI? And why put Slovakia and Palestine as Civs? Is this a serious wishlist?