Basic Start help needed please: Kublai Khan/Warlord.

[Anomander Rake]

I've started a new Custom Game with the hope that some of you will help me get better at this game.

I chose Random Leader/Fractal/Standard/Normal - huts are off because I don't want to pop a Settler and many of you prefer huts off. This means less ££ etc. but I'll learn more that way. I chose Random as I usually play Elizabeth or Willem and I wanted to try someone new. As I know next to nothing about the leaders that was the easiest choice.

This is what the game RNG spat out. If he sucks as a Leader I'll re-roll, but I watched TMIT play him recently in a CIV18 game on Youtube and he seemed pretty playable.

Spoiler :

My Thoughts:
Aggressive/Creative.
Free combat promotions for Melee and Gunpowder units, Faster Barracks and Docks.+2 Culture per city Faster Library, Theatre and Colosseum.

To me that seems fine. No need for a Monument and my units with barracks should get a head start on XP.

I've never taken war to the AI (I tend to turtle and defend with my fingers crossed), so this could be good for me.

THE UB will help my UU Horses so that seems good too. Obviously, I'm hoping for Horses as close as possible, and if so then HBR will be more of a priority tech than usual.

Here's the start:

I think I need to move my Warrior 1NE to the circle to see what he can see (sea sea).
If there are fish I might move, but it means settling on Turn 3 (I think) as I have to move my Settler across 2 hills
But I have 2 plains hills and 2 grass hills, 3 food sources in the current BFC so SiP won't be too bad IMO.

I don't expect anyone to Shadow this as I am playing Warlord.

What I'm hoping for is advice on city site placement and city specialisations and specialists. Diplomacy/tech trading and War! I also know very little about which leaders can back stab etc. so advice on who I meet and how close they are will be appreciated

I have no idea when I should chop or whip either, but let's get going slowly and see what happens.

I'm intending to post every 25-30 turns - I hope that's not too often. As I improve I'll be able to play longer sessions.

Anyway, thanks for reading, and I hope you can help.

Edit
Forgot to attach the save

 

[whats a navy]

Move your scout to the blue circle and if you don't see any other resources settle 1W of your position. Currently if you settle in place (SIP) you will have very low production so you want to move to get more production.

 

[vranasm]

this is a little bit tricky start (2x seafood without fishing).
At first I thought about going ah->mining with settling 1W, but on second thought I am not so sure.
could actually see fishing with worker->wb->worker and then ah, I would probably move to the 1W anyway (I know I will lose those clams, but gain gh - actually 3GH!)

you should have big success with keshiks on warlord

 

[Benginal]

1) Settling 1W will net you an extra 3 green hills, a riverside grassland, and another grassland (possible riverside), you will lose 3 sea tiles, 1 coast tile, and a clam (which another city can take). I'd settle 1W every time.

2) I'm thinking AH for the pigs and to look for horses, mining for all the hills, BW for the forests, and then fishing for some more clams. You can use BW to chop out a workboat.

3) I'd build worker first, then a warrior or two, then a workboat.

4) You have a scout, not a warrior. So you get two moves instead of one as long as the first move isn't on to a hill or into a forest.

 

[Anomander Rake]

WoW!

Super fast feedback thanks.

I forgot I don't have fishing, too used to ELizabeth who does.

I'd never think to move 1W, as I'm in that +25% def on hills mindset. I did move my scout to the circle and this is the result

I think I'm going to move 1W and settle, and follow Benigal's advice and place another city to the N for the Fish and clam my Capital can't work.

AH - Mining - BW it is then.

 

[lymond]

1W is almost a no-brainer, although it could be a resource. Actually if it is horses it will get those units up an running quick. Chariot rushes are very effective early on this level - you could knock out several AIs.

I'd say AH first (pig iron is a great resource and horse reveal) and then possible Fishing>BW or even BW>Fishing.

Kublai has a great trait in Creative (Aggressive is pretty meh), so early writing could be nice if you warmonger, since early libraries will keep the research going while funding the war.

 

[lymond]

Defense on a hill is is not as important usually in your cap unless you are playing an AW game or Multiplayer. I do consider them for border cities.

I still think 1W is your best choice here - I like having more production/land tiles with a war monger. Potential second city on the PH 1N of the scout.

 

[vranasm]

ah->fishing will net you BW much faster with the lake and clams. the only complication being you need mining too for those hills before BW...

that's why fishing with worker(partly)->wb->worker(finish) can buy you some time for tech catch up

 

[Benginal]

The fish tile is great, but not enough to move your capital there. Settle 1W. Then you can place a pretty decent second city 3N of the capital on that plains hill. That city will be able to work both the fish and the other clam as well as a few hills.

It's a nice start so far. Let's hope you have horses.

 

[michmbk]

1W has to be a resource - I'd be willing to bet on it. If you didn't lose two turns for it, I'd love to settle on the blue circle for the extra hammer and the fish - that site should be a production powerhouse. I would probably still prefer to SIP because of the extremely high likelihood that you've got copper or horse 1W.

 

[Anomander Rake]

Okay, I played up to T28. It seems as good point to update as you'll see.

Decisions need to be made.

On T5 I met Isabella's warrior and on T6 I found her. She's approx 1 city BFC directly west of me, so damn close. In, and of itself, that wouldn't be too much of an issue, but I have Tundra to the N and Desert to the S, and am on a fat peninsular.....



There is good news though

I scouted N from my Capital and found Tundra immediately, luckily there are sheep and some wheat on the edge. Directly West of me is a nice Looking floodplain, with a grass hill in the middle. S of that are 2 Gold plains hills. Further S is a thin finger like (1 tile wide) projection with Banana at the tip.

T10 revealed Horses near the sheep, and I can place a coastal city with the Fish, Sheep and Horses in the BFC. As I am Creative I don't need to worry about a monument to get them all. The Horses are on Tundra.

T16 Worker out and on pigs, started 2 warriors - researched mining started BW for chopping and whipping. Fingers Crossed for Copper.

T27 2nd Warrior out - City @ pop 3 started a Settler to get those Horses asap.

T28 - whoot! Copper in the BFC!
Thanks for the 1W suggestion all of you!

Pictures! Couple ideas for City placement. What do you think?

Spoiler :

City and tech Details.

Spoiler :

I'm tempted to Go for HBR now, built the Ger and Keshik Rush Isabella and take her out asap. Do you think it's doable?

I've only got one worker, 1 scout and 2 warriors so I'll need another worker asap - maybe 2. Happy cap at Cap is 5, and I'm at 3 atm so need to grow on a bit. Don't have pottery so no Granary yet so whipping not so good.

I could Chariot Rush her as Lymond suggested, would be faster as I won't have to Tech HBR and can get Pottery next.

Alternatively Axe rush her with the copper...

I need to scout a bit more, but I'm pretty sure I'm blocked in by her and it would be nice to have the Buddhist Capital for research if I can get a GPro and settle him there.

What to do for the next 25 turns !

Thanks for all the feedback. Stopping and writing down what happened, taking screenshots and coming here is helping me think more about what I'm doing too.

 

[Agramon]

Actually the blue dot is pretty decent. Plains hill for early production and huge food. Only two coast tiles without specials, compared to 4 in 1W. Tundra might be an issue here.

In hindsight 1 tundra is a pretty good tradeoff for the coastal tiles, but copper is pretty hard to beat.

 

[michmbk]

You're aggressive - 1 more worker, then turn your trees and a couple whips into 7-8 axes and you'll have a free holy city.

On this level, no sense waiting for HBR to come in, especially with copper in the BFC. I'd just axe rush her.

 

[Anomander Rake]

OK, 1 for Axe Rush

Should I build a Barracks and/or a granary and grow my pop on, or just go for it?

 

[michmbk]

A barracks is probably overkill - you'll get enough with the aggressive promo at this level. You can build it if you want. I usually don't bother with a granary too early in my capital, since it gets to the happy cap pretty quick without it - with the three food you probably don't need it until after you've killed Izzy.

 

[barbertje]

I'd settle a city between the sheep and the weat, also grabbing the horses and some floodplains
to the south. This grabs more terrain. Third city on the plains tile NW of the gold, to grab both
golds and the rest of the flood plains.
Your horse sheep fish city can go 1SE to grab the northern clam, wich you can't work now.
That southern banana city can come after you've swiped the continent with Keshiks.

 

[VoiceOfUnreason]

Given that you are playing to beat Warlord, I would have recommended settling in place - micro managing the placement of your first city is not a big leverage proposition. Bigger fundamentals (ie, planning) should be your top priority. You should save the small stuff for higher difficulties.

Looking at your city locations to the north - bleah. Your horse city should be inland, where it can work the wheat tile. You have a room for a filler city on the plains hill north of the capital, which will pick up the clams for you. Bananaville is another filler city - you might drop something there after (a) you've expanded to the good locations and (b) you've got the techs to improve the bananz.

I wouldn't touch either of the filler cities. Horse/Sheep/Wheatville is an interesting problem - it could help kill Isabella if you had enough worker turns to set it up. But it is probably too slow.

As it stands, you should be thinking about killing Isabella with Axes, and how quickly you can manage that. You need to mine the copper and connect it to the city, and then you need to pump out your axes (you will probably be able to capture the city with 5 or fewer). Your existing worker should be dedicated to connecting the mine and then chopping, so your second city will need to provide for itself.

(Given that, I'd probably be training a worker rather than a settler at this point, to more quickly chop trees for axes).

Barracks is a no - I'm pretty sure if you think out the math you'll see that it's going to delay the capture of the spanish capital, rather than accelerating it. That which can wait, must wait.

 

[Anomander Rake]

Thanks.

I've only got 2 turns in the Settler, I think he's got 9 Turns to go before he's out, but that'll be reduced when I improve the copper as I'm working a 2F1H unimproved tile atm. I can change him for a worker, get worker 1 on the copper asap and then start chopping out Axes.

Should I just chop or chop and then mine the forested plains hill? Obviously, as I get Axes out my city will grow and I can whip too I hope.

Edit

Going to try the worker axe rush off one city strat. I can always reload - it's all about practice

BRB

 

[xenex]

Personally I think horse,sheep,fish site is bad.
First you lose that 1 clam.
The site will be pretty mediocre besides the resource tiles.

I say settle 3 north of your capitol on that plains hill so you can work the fish and clam and all those juicy hills.
The cap has 3 grass hill and that copper resource so it should be pretty good on production and it can always swap with the fosh/clam city if it needs a bit more for a while.

Then to get the horse/sheep I would settle 1NW of sheep, if you needed horses faster you would want to settle 2N1W but since you already have axes for the rush you dont need them that fast and being creative you wont have to wait long to hook them up.

On the banana site, I would wait to settle that city, until at least civil service, maybe later if other sites are needed before.I would also move it onto that hill 1N of the dotmap, that way you can spread irrigation to all 3 of the grassland tiles that will be in the BFC, You will also gain 2 hills, granted one is a desert hill, but by moving the city on the grass hill you gain 4 extra hammers that you would otherwise not have.This would also help to build Maoi at a decent rate if you decide to build it there.From looking at the map right now there doesn't seem to be a better place for it except the clam/fish site next to your capitol, which wont really need extra hammers.

This way the banana site also becomes better, as opposed to where the dotmap is which will simply make it filler city and nothing else.

 

[Anomander Rake]

Thanks Xenex. I considered placing the city on a hill, but wanted that for hammers. Did't think about that desert hill or irrigation! I don't think food will be an issue with the Banana and lighthouse though.

I did my fist ever axe rush and Isabella is no more. '

e's shuffled off 'is mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleedin' choir invisible

Went a lot better than I hoped - I did over produce, but I can use the Axes to Fogbust made 7 in total and lost 2.

I reloaded and immediately revolted into Slavery. I placed a worker to the head of the prod queue and sent my original worker to the copper.
For lack of any other idea I researched fishing - pottery - Agri and I'm glad I did.

Scout spotted Issy had copper

Worker finished, but copper not hooked up, so I put a workboat at the head of the queue and moved my 2nd worker to the plains hill to pre-chop. WB Out and copper still not hooked up, put another turn into the Settler.

Copper hooked up, pre-chop done and Worker 2 pre-chopping another forest.
Long story short, chopped out 4 forests and 2 whips, built a mine and started road to Horsetown next to wheat. Sent 7 Axes to Kill her and the Expansion she'd sent out.

She had an Archer + warrior on a hill, 2nd warrior went to attack me ( I killed him) and 3rd warrior defending her expansion. Also captured a worker.

Here's a screen shot of the area with the latest suggested city plan.

I'm going to get the Horses with my Settler, placing it between wheat and cows I think.

Going to look at these now and think about what next. Clearly need to send some scouts out. Hope to God I'm not Isolated!