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BB-01 open succession game--fast space race

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Succession Games' started by brasilbear, Jan 2, 2013.

  1. Lanzelot

    Lanzelot Moderator Moderator

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    Actually, my plan for Portugal was to improve their core lands (including rails), once our workers are done with improving our land, and then founding and gifting them a few good core cities, like Corihuayrachina, Paris and Tours. (I'd rather lead a war against France, because some of their cities would still be good second rank cities for us: Besancon, Rouen, Marseilles.)
    Even if Portugal won't contribute to our research, we can still expect quite some gpt, if we develop them well.
     
  2. Kulko

    Kulko Innocent Bystander

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    Got it.

    Looks like the Portuguese got that second incense colony down south in incaland damn.

    Why havent we researched AT + Elctronics yet? I thought that was the plan to reach hoover fast.

    Can we talk once more about the wonder plan:
    Hoover(800s) - ASAP
    ToE(600s) - Area change finish first
    Internet (1000s) - Area Change finish after ToE
    SETI (100s) - no prebuild (SGL)
    correct?

    until the area change we need at least 29 turns probably more like 31. Niniveh is able to produce 1000s in 25 turns which a bit to spare and no hoover yet.

    Other option would be to fully railroad Niniveh (43-45 spt), which would deliver Hoover in 2+ 19-20 turns (or 16 turns when we dont finish the stock exchange first). Afterwards Babylon could produce 54 spt, so it would finish ToE in 12 turns, which would be just in time (maybe start one or two turns earlier). We would need another 1000 shields prebuild, which could be uruk. When Niniveh is finished with the Hoover, Uruk can borrow a mountain from Niniveh and operate at 50-52 spt needing 20 turns. So it need 450-500 shields before that (depending on how much 5 turn research we need), which would take 15-17 turns at the current rate (27 spt, can go to 30). That would mean switching Niniveh and Uruk to prebuilds after the finish their current projects.


    As far as the military goes i am not sure wether we want to attack portugal. Their Lands look pathetic developed, but they have been the only AI to deliver any useful etchs in the last 30 turns.


    Apart from that it looks like we need settlers settlers settlers in order to get all the lands in Incaland and india settled, and that I feel, 4 turn research should be no more problem.
     
  3. Elephantium

    Elephantium Elephants think that people are cute, like puppies

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    Sorry about not beelining for Electronics; I was trying for 4-turn research while getting some more science farms up.
     
  4. Lanzelot

    Lanzelot Moderator Moderator

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    There's no hurry, we'll have the tech before any city will have accumulated the necessary shields.

    I've also done Corporation before going on the Electronics path, simply because of what Elephantium said: Corporation could be done in 4 turns, while we don't yet have the necessary commerce to do the more expensive techs leading up to Electronics in 4 turns. At the moment we would need 5 or even 6 turns for those, while in a couple of turns we should be able to do them in 4. ==> A few turns saved on the way to Alpha Centauri.

    Electronics is really expensive. So if you are not 100% sure it can be done in 4, do some other cheap tech before! Hoover is nice, but doesn't help with research, so it doesn't matter if we get it 4 turns sooner or later. We don't need the production at the moment: we have more units than necessary (even with our small and backward army, we could probably conquer the entire world, if we wanted to), and all our core cities already have every improvement they need... (We don't even need research labs, if we go for the "Internet sling".)

    The only thing important at the moment is, that we plan the prebuilds for ToE and Internet 100% precisely. I expect the only way to maintain our 4-turn research until the end of the game, is to have the Internet ready right in the first turn of the Modern Age. (And of course to let our science farms spread. So once in a while check for those towns, where the governour has picked a hill instead of a railed/irrigated grassland! The governour likes to do that, even though the resulting shields are 100% corrupt. Stupid AI programming... :vomit: So always switch them back to grassland for maximum growth.)

    Wonder plan confirmed.
     
  5. Lanzelot

    Lanzelot Moderator Moderator

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    BTW: that leads me to another idea: usually we would upgrade our existing units now. But the gold is probably better saved for future "negative budget research" (and for rushing slaves and settlers). So we could disband our obsolete units now in towns that are building settlers, and build fresh Infantry from scratch in those core cities that have nothing better to do. If we build 15-20 Infantry over the next 10 turns, that should be all we need for conquering France...
     
  6. Elephantium

    Elephantium Elephants think that people are cute, like puppies

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    We can also buy horses, Salt, and MT from overseas...conquest in Easy Mode ;)
     
  7. Lanzelot

    Lanzelot Moderator Moderator

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    If we can get it without endangering ToE, why not... :mischief:
     
  8. Elephantium

    Elephantium Elephants think that people are cute, like puppies

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    On second thought, we only need to buy MT. Horses and Salt are both available by finishing off the Incans :)
     
  9. Kulko

    Kulko Innocent Bystander

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    Ok, will play my turnset in the evening.
    I checked a few more things and that is my additional plan for this turnset:

    Trading for Salpeter is not possible, as nobody has more than 1. But there are unclaimed ressources on the incan island and I will rush a galleon in order to claim them as soon as possible. I need something anyway in order to bring the necessary forces to capture the last incan cities.

    Unfortunately the Incas have sent out a galley which is likely to bring a new settler to some forsaken island down south, which would also need to be conquered.

    For now we have 29 MI and we need about 6 for destruction of the incas and 10 more to beat of any french invasion (we have also plenty of pikes in this area). So I would disband at least 10 of the existing MIs and replace them with rifles or Cav once I have settled the necessary ressources.
     
  10. Lanzelot

    Lanzelot Moderator Moderator

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    A galleon was already on its way to Huamanga and should have arrived there on Elephantiums 2nd or 3rd turn. (Unless he sent it some place else...?! :D)
    (And why do the smilies already have those stupid Christmas hats on again?! It's still 8 months to Christmas!)

    Yep. We already have rubber, so you could even build infantry instead of rifles. But Cavs would of course be best.

    Edit: checked the save now. Things look really good. (And the galleon is already in Huamanga, so no need to rush one.)
     
  11. Kulko

    Kulko Innocent Bystander

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    Tech
    I managed Refining in 4 turns but afterwards there was no way to get down to 4 turns, so I decided to actually do AT in 6. This also had the advantage to fill up the cash register a bit once more so there should be one more 4 turner possible on combustion. But all other techs are on the next level as far as base cost is concerned and I have not managed to get there yet.
    Nationalism appeared in my turnset (by Mongols I believe), but Sanitation has not shown up yet.

    Military
    I connected the Salpeter on the incan island by now (used some MI to build the harbour) and the first Cavs are being finished right now. In the meantime I also build about 5 Infantries, so going after france should be possible very soon. Unfortunately france managed to get their hands on Nationalism by now, hope that doesnt cramp our style too much on monarchy.

    I also just declared on the incans and moved the stack next to their first town. unfortunately the have access to horses so I had to leave a few units back in town to avoid them running into our undefended town, but I still hope that 4 elite MI can easily handle the spearmen they shoudl encounter. There is one more town on a island for the incas but that is newly built so it should be enough to send one galleon this way once the island is cleared.

    Wonder prebuilds
    Plan is continuing as designed, I also renamed the cities to make it easier to follow who is prebuilding for what. Dont forget to start Babylon on the ToE prebuild in time (remember they get support from the hoover plant in a few turns) and check on Uruk, which may need a bit of slowing down in the end. Once Niniveh finishes the Hoover it could start on smith, as the 5th stock exchange will be almost finished by then. As soon as we have electronics we can start selling Industrialism around as we wont need Universal Suffrage as a save prebuild anymore.

    Micromanage
    I checked twice for hills, finding a few and correcting them (unfortunately CA is not running on my PC so I Dont know who has just grown). I also started to set more cities to wealth in order to speed up growth as I felt we had enough workers in the field.
    What I am not sure about is how many settler we need. There are a few hills left on the edges which could be filled, and there are also empty spaces in the grasslands, but they are all reachable by other cities. Is it better to close these with ICS or rather have bigger cities with more clowns? we also need a few more settlers for france but we have actually settled in between him quite efficiently. But feel free to switch back more cities to settlers if this is necessary.

    SPoiler
    Only my trades and tech musings
    Spoiler :
    Turn 1 (660 AD)
    I switch a few scientists to tax collectors to optimize money for future deficit research. After finishing Steel I set research to refining. (5 turns) I set science to max (still 5 at -111 gpt). I switch all taxers back to nerds and with the last scientist I manage to get research time down to 4 turns, but it is gonna eat up most of our money.

    Luckily I got 3 new settlers who will imediately be set to work on new landfiling projects.

    Turn 5 700 AD
    It seems to be impossible to gain Combustion in 4 so I bite the poisoned Apple and get AT in 6. I also start the following trades for more money:
    Germany gets Electricity for Nationalism + 32 gpt + change
    Maya get Nationalism for MT + 27 gpt + horses + change
    Portugal gets MT + Nationalism for change
    Mongol gets MT for change.
    The last to are meant to sent them after juicier techs like sanitation, although I fear they will just spend their time on Espionage and communism

    I keep electricity from the others as potential trade coin for future techs, as I want to keep the AI away from SciMet and Indusrialization yet to avoid them killing one of our prebuilds, although thats unlikely right now.
    Then I find 2 civil engineers in Akkad which can be switched to Scientists which would allow combustion in 4, but we dont have the cash to keep up that research so I think I will stay at 90% and AT in 6. Actually its 5 turns right now, but I will have to reduce the science slider later, so nits going to be 6 turns in reality.

    Turn 7 720 AD
    as expected I need to sclae back research in order to keep solvent so we will now start collecting money for future research.

    Turn 10 750 AD
    Declared war oin Incas
    eMI kill rMI (2/5)
    4 eMI move forward to take the first town.
     

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  12. Lanzelot

    Lanzelot Moderator Moderator

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    In the grasslands, ICS style should be best. A town needs to work only 3 GL for maintaining pop 6. (Edit: in fact, just 1 grassland and 2 plains are sufficient! Of course, with a food resource we need only 2 tiles to maintain pop 6.)

    Bad luck that France got Nationalism. The next player should send a few scouts to check whether they already have any rifles, and if yes, let's build a handful of artilleries.

    Roster check:

    Kulko - just played
    Lord Emsworth - up
    Lanzelot - on deck
    brazilbear - mia
    Elephantium
     
  13. Lord Emsworth

    Lord Emsworth Emperor

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    Would you please skip me indefinitely.
     
  14. Lanzelot

    Lanzelot Moderator Moderator

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    It`s me again?! Quite fast turnaround time... I need a day or two before I can get to this, though.
     
  15. Kulko

    Kulko Innocent Bystander

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    Its really you Lanzelot :)
     
  16. Lanzelot

    Lanzelot Moderator Moderator

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    Already played 3 turns yesterday... :p
     
  17. Lanzelot

    Lanzelot Moderator Moderator

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    Spoiler :
    Pre-flight:
    Double-check the MM and send some scientists back on the fields for extra food. We have a bit shield-overrun atm, but that's ok, shields are not important for us. Some other core towns have food-overrun, so we need to replace more irrigations with mines.

    If we can get the remaining techs in 4, we have 21 more turns until reaching the MA. Uruk has 20 turns left on the Palace, and with Hoover that's going to go down a bit still. That's a problem. Can we still build something else there? I could switch to a bank wasting 206 shields, but I think that's better than starving it down or not having an 800s wonder later to shave some shields off in case of premature overrun.
    But with currently 32spt, it will not be able to complete the Internet from scratch in 20 turns! ToE would be possible (can mine two more fields for 38spt, and after Hoover it'll have way over 40spt), but then the capital can't build the Internet!

    That's a big problem, what can we do? The prebuild was started definitely too early and will overrun before we finish the IA, but if I abort it now and start from scratch, it will be too late. The only good idea I have at the moment is to take two mountains away from Uruk and slowing the build down that way. Ok, I give one mountain to Samarra and the other one can be given next turn to Elippi for a few turns. (But I need to be careful not to slow it down too much... In ten turns things will be easier to calculate, as then we'll have Hoover.)


    T191, 760AD:
    Mongols and Germans sign a mutual protection pact. I don't expect us to lead any wars on the other continent, but better keep that in the back of our heads...

    Atomic Theory -> Combustion

    New Zariqum defects to the Mongols, one turn before our harbor there is finished!!!!!!!!! Darn.

    But fortunately we can by now trade with the Mongols and Mayas: they have connected to the German road network, so we can now trade via our harbor in New Uruk. (Though, isn't it completely ridiculous, that none of the three nations on the other continent has built a harbor up to now?)

    Sell some resources to everyone except France for more cash and gpt.

    Send some workers to the core to complete the last rails there and change irrigations to mines.
    Join workers to Zariqum, Izibia and Sippar. At 100% we are now making 1012 beakers at -102gpt. Almost 600g on the bank account. 1066,5bpt are required for Combustion, with a few more scientists we are all set for 4 turns!

    Juli falls without losses.


    T192, 770AD:
    Workers and not much else.


    T193, 780AD:
    Chuito captured, one MI lost.

    8 Inf, 8 Cav, a handful of MIs -- I decide it's time now to start the French war. Sell Electricity for some gold and a worker.
    Move the Inf next to Rheims, then cancel the RoP and the lux deal and then declare war. (They go from "gracious" to "cautious"... :D)

    Rheims captured, losing two vet Inf against a reg Pike!! Lose one MI picking up stray MIs.
    Marseilles is defended by a reg Rifle, Rouen and Besancon by reg Spears. I decide to go for these first, before they upgrade...
    3 Cavs take Besancon, 2 Rouen.
    Lyons and Orleans have reg Pikes, so with the remaining 3 Cavs I decide to risk another attack against Orleans (size 6, grassland).

    Increase shield production in Uruk again.


    T194, 790AD:
    Lyons now has a conscript Rifle, they drafted!
    2 Artillery, 3 Inf and a Cav now take Marseilles, losing two Infs to a spear and a 1/3 Rifle... Grr.


    T195, 800AD:
    Combustion -> Electronics

    Two Cavs and an Inf take Lyons.
    Three Cavs take Tours, one loss.
    Three Cavs take Chartres.

    At 100% and with 14 scientists, we make ~1110bpt. We need 1200bpt, so 30 more scientists, that should be possible.


    T196, 810AD:
    One MI takes Grenoble.
    Slow down Uruk again.


    T197, 820AD:
    Our two artilleries damage two Rifles in Paris, 5 Cavs, an Inf and an MI then take it, 1 Cav lost.
    Three Cavs take Avignon.


    T198, 830AD:
    More worker management...


    T199, 840AD:
    Electronics -> Mass Production
    The Mayas have researched Democracy... I buy it and sell it around.

    Reduce science to 70%. We will have to increase it to 80% for 4-turn research lateron, but I want to collect some cash first.
    Scientists on towns that have not yet reached size 6 are sent back to the fields.


    T200, 850AD:
    Hoover Dam is finished. We have 11 more turn in the Industrial Age. Palace in Uruk and ToE in Babylon now show 9 turns. Take some mountains offline and change civil engineers to scientists to make it an exact 11 turns. for both cases.

    Science back to 80% plus some more scientists bring Mass Production down to 3 turns.

    The Volcano next to New Akkad is now active. Keep your fingers crossed...


    Handover notes:
    • A ship with 4 MIs is on its way to Dijon (last French town) and will arrive in 2 turns. If MIs are not enough to take it, a few Cavs and Infs are waiting accross the shore.
    • Three Infs have already arrived at Tamboccocha (last Incan town) a few turns ago, but it did not yet have its culture expansion.
    • I have 6 coastal cities building Cruisers. Remember to switch them to Commercial Docks interturn, when Mass Production completes. (Some of the Cruisers will otherwise be built.)
    • I meant to build a mine for Adap, but forgot... Hindana also needs more mines.
    • Corihuayrachina, New Karana, Ashur 2, Tours and Paris should be prepared with market, courthouse an aqueduct, if necessary, pushed to size 12 and then gifted to Portugal. Use forrestry and disband units from the core.
     
  18. Lanzelot

    Lanzelot Moderator Moderator

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    Some more thoughts on the current situation:
    • We need 11 turns for the last remaining 3 techs (one tech is already started). Our two prebuilds for ToE and Internet will also finish in 11 turns. The next player just needs to make sure that nothing "breaks down". Just have enough scientists to maintain 4-turn research, but send unnecessary scientists in small towns back to the fields, so these towns can keep growing. (Our science farms are not yet sufficient for the modern age.) Check the pre-builds once a while and make sure we have some shield-overrun. I once had it in a 20K game of mine, that I had timed a wonder-build perfectly, and then pollution hit a mined & railed mountain like 2 turns before finish date, and I was not able to make up these lost shields in the remaining time... In our case this would be a major catastrophy...)
    • Perhaps it's not worth the effort to beef up the Portugesians. What can we expect? Certainly not a tech, so the best we can hope for is some decent cash. But we can probably gain the same amount of commerce by just keeping those towns and using them for science farms... Beefing up a neighbor may have worked for an industrial tech, but now it's too late. I guess we just forget about it and just take the cash they have...
    Roster:
    Elephantium - up
    Kulko - on deck
    Lanzelot - just played
     
  19. Elephantium

    Elephantium Elephants think that people are cute, like puppies

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    Preturn - do some MM, making it easy to get 4-turn research on Flight. We have lots of citizens; we just aren't allocating them to research! :nono:
    860 AD - Move workers. Troops en route to Dijon.
    870 AD - Incan city is size 2 now; we take it.
    880 AD - Mass Production > MT; shift Cruisers to Commercial Docks
    890 AD - Besancon deposes us. Ingrates.
    Two eCavs put paid to the defenders, and the city is ours once again.
    An rCav does the same to Dijon, and the French are destroyed!
    900 AD - We're finally clearing out that swamp near Kolhapur! :D
    910 AD - zzz
    920 AD - MT > Flight (in 4 at 60% science)
    930 AD - We get a lot of that jungle cleared near Portugal. Our workers will be getting bored soon!
    940 AD - zzz
    950 AD - Germans want to trade maps. We get 12g out of the deal.
    960 AD - I played an extra turn since I'm in the middle of the transition anyway...
    Flight > *Rocketry*
    > Select Computers
    > ToE completes
    > Computers, Miniaturization
    > Set Bab to SETI
    > Change Uruk to The Internet
    > Internet completes
    I check on the cities that just grew and save the game.

    Note that we have another 9 turns of a Furs deal before we can honorably declare war on Portugal.
     
  20. Kulko

    Kulko Innocent Bystander

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    Got it,

    will post my ideas tomorrow
     

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