BB-01 open succession game--fast space race

[Elephantium]

Partial report:

Pre-turn: Take a look around. Things look good.

Bangalore riots and completes a Worker.
Eridu - Barracks > Pike
Eulbar - Market > Uni
Karachi - workers
Larsa - workers
Zamua - Settlers

Turn 1 (260 AD):

MDI kills Spear in Bombay and promotes
MDI kills wandering Warrior near Karana

Ashur - MDI > Caravel
Uruk - MDIs

Turn 2 (270 AD):

Treb misses.
MDI kills a Spear and takes Bombay! We also capture a Settler in the city
Magnets > ToG
Ninevah - Uni > MDI
Eridu - Pikes
Karachi - Workers
Telloh - Settler > Worker
Nina - Workers

Turn 3 (280 AD):

Sign up Inca in the Indian war. It costs us Magnets, but we get some gold back.

Uruk - MDIs
Samarra - Court > Barracks
Izibia - Court > Lib
Adab - Workers
Hyderabad - Spear > Worker

Turn 4 (290 AD):

Zzz...

Ninevah - MDIs
Ellipi - Uni > rax
Eridu - MDI > Pike
Karana - Treb >

Turn 5 (300 AD):

Lose a Bowman to Spear in Kolhapur, doing no damage
Bowman dies to LB in the wild
MDI finishes off the LB.

I'm planning on playing another 5 turns later in the week, but I thought it would be helpful to post a midset report.

Spoiler :

 

[Elephantium]

False alarm - I won't have time to play another 5 before Monday after all.

 

[Lanzelot]

Ok, so the current roster check looks like:

Kulko - up
Lord Emsworth - on deck
Lanzelot
brazilbear - mia
Elephantium - just played

Perhaps you can play 15 turns, or the next two play 12.5 each?!

However, before we proceed, the situation should be discussed a bit. For example, we have not yet discussed any opinions about what to do with Hammurabi! And how the plan of grabbing the wines on the other continent is progressing.

Comments so far: the Mayans seem to be doing pretty good (for an AI that is...). Perhaps we can expect something from them. (Unfortunately they already had their GA a long time ago (Pyramids-triggered) )
Did you observe any Incan - Indian battles that might indicate, whether the Incas already started their GA?
Any ideas about how the French and/or Portugesian GA could be triggered in a "harmless" way?

(Edit: ok, just looked at F7: Portugal had an early Colossus-triggered GA in 1225 BC, the French & the Mongols don't have any fitting wonder yet, while the Germans already have Zeus (MIL) and only need a SCI wonder. It'll be a tough piece of work to get them all their peaceful GA...)

Samarra first needs a harbor for extra commerce.
(Edit2: I just notice: Samarra already has a harbor and 20s into the barracks. That doesn't fit to the turn log... What happened? Did you short-rush via MI?!)

 

[Lord Emsworth]

There is only one real good thing to do with the leader: Newton's college. The rest doesn't do anything remotely useful. With the leader at hand we can actually pick the best city, commerce-wise.

OK, there is JS Bach, but it is very unpredictable when and if at all if become available.



And, I know I brought it up, but I would not be too expectant about the Incan GA. Chances are they either lost their Chasqui Scout against some barbs or they had it disbanded already.

 

[Lanzelot]

Newton is only 400s, so the SGL is kind of "wasted". Especially since we don't need it at the moment: we are already at 4-turns with 70% science. And Babylon (certainly the best city to build it) only needs 7 more turns to finish it. (Gravity becomes available in 2 turns, so only 5 turns after discovering the required tech, we'll already finish Newton...)

ToE would be the next candidate, but that one is very easy to prebuild, because it can be calculated sufficiently in advance, when the tech will be ready.

Calculating a prebuild for SETI, however, is much more difficult, because we cannot know what tech Germany will get. So our prebuild could be 4-5 turns "off" either way: either we have to dump shields, because the tech is not yet ready, or we are wasting beakers, because we have the tech but need to wait for the shields to complete... For this reason my current preference would lean towards SETI. (And also: it's 1000s!)

Regarding Bach: we are already at 10% lux, and in about 5 turns we'll have wines connected, which will allow us to drop to 0% lux. And then we can always trade techs for the Mongol's spices and ivory. And mid-term we can also send a worker to hook up the Inca's spare dyes resource and buy that for techs as well.
So I think, we'll be in WLTKD mode longe before any AI comes up with Music Theory...

There's also the question whether to keep the SGL for the Internet instead of SETI. However, I think that the Internet is not as useful in science games: if we have pre-builds ready for Research Labs in all important core towns, we can have these Labs up and running 4-6 turns earlier than if we wait for the Internet. Together with SETI, this could mean that we manage 4 turns already right from the start of the Modern Age, instead of having to wait until Miniaturization comes in (which may be another 6 turns!).


Doesn't the AI keep building their UU until they get a GA?

 

[Lanzelot]

PS: with a bit of MM (exchanging tiles with Niniveh, which is wasting shields anyway) Babylon can save one more turn and get Newton done in 6! The next player please keep this in mind.

Scratch that, I'm getting old... (Not enough turns left, too late now.)

 

[Kulko]

I find Lanzelots arguments for SETI pretty convincing.

Also since we will reach the IA in the middle of my turnset, what is the most important research goal in a Space game? Sanitation or Steam Power, How about sanitation and Industrialization?

 

[Lord Emsworth]

If we are going to wait that long (which I am not convinced is the best option) then certainly not for SETI but the Internet.

 

[Lanzelot]

Also since we will reach the IA in the middle of my turnset, what is the most important research goal in a Space game? Sanitation or Steam Power, How about sanitation and Industrialization?

Sanitation is an optional, so we'll skip that, I guess. (We'll never catch up the lost 4 turns.) Top priority in the IA is Replacable Parts (for the doubled worker speed)! With all the quick rails and irrigations, our science farms will grow like mushrooms...

If we are going to wait that long (which I am not convinced is the best option)

But what is the alternative in your opinion?
Newton is already almost finished and ToE can be prebuilt at our leisure. Adam Smith might be an option, if the AI comes up with the necessary tech. (But that will be even later than Music Theory...)

then certainly not for SETI but the Internet.

As I already said above, the Internet is worthless in a science game. By building Labs by hand, we can have them much earlier than if we wait for the Internet to become available.
Hmm...?! The only way to get the Internet in time, would be to use ToE...?!

Ok, how does this plan sound:

• The turn before finishing the last IA tech, we use the SGL to rush the Pallace in a city that has a higher rank than the city which is completing ToE the same interturn.
• The last tech comes in, we gift up the Germans into the Modern Age and check what they got. If it's Computers, we set something else as our next project, if it is something else, we set Computers as our next project...
• ToE completes, and we get our next tech. We ring up the Germans and trade for Computers (if they got it). Afterwards we set Minituriazation as next project.
• Minituriazation finishes, we go into F1 one more time and switch the Pallace to Internet.
• Internet finishes, and at the beginning of the first modern age turn, we have labs everywhere...

Of course that means, we need a perfectly timed prebuild for ToE, and also a prebuild for SETI.

 

[templar_x]

Hmm...?! The only way to get the Internet in time, would be to use ToE...?!

Ok, how does this plan sound:

• The turn before finishing the last IA tech, we use the SGL to rush the Pallace in a city that has a higher rank than the city which is completing ToE the same interturn.
• The last tech comes in, we gift up the Germans into the Modern Age and check what they got. If it's Computers, we set something else as our next project, if it is something else, we set Computers as our next project...
• ToE completes, and we get our next tech. We ring up the Germans and trade for Computers (if they got it). Afterwards we set Minituriazation as next project.
• Minituriazation finishes, we go into F1 one more time and switch the Pallace to Internet.
• Internet finishes, and at the beginning of the first modern age turn, we have labs everywhere...

Of course that means, we need a perfectly timed prebuild for ToE, and also a prebuild for SETI.

this is how it is done. it will work always on lower levels. at least on Deity and Sid, not so, because the AS will build ToE if you would wait that long. that is, if you were not able to fight them down to nearly nothing before that point of time.

i already wanted to post that yesterday, but now you figured it out yourself...

t_x

 

[Kulko]

One question concerning Newtons:

If I have a City which is making 20 bpt base and then I add Copes its now making 30 bpt. If I know add Newton in that town Do I make 40 or 45 bpt?

And How does this work for a lib + Newton?

 

[Lord Emsworth]

Libs and Unis add 50% to the base, and Cope's, Newton's and SETI add 100% to the base.

If your city makes 20 bpt base, then adding Cope's and Newton's will turn that into 300%, i.e. 60 bpt. If you also have a lib then the city will make 350%, i.e. 70 bpt.

But what is the alternative in your opinion?
Newton is already almost finished and ToE can be prebuilt at our leisure. Adam Smith might be an option, if the AI comes up with the necessary tech. (But that will be even later than Music Theory...)

I hadn't realized there was a prebuild going. But come to think of it, the leader is actually pretty useless.

 

[Lanzelot]

this that is, if you were not able to fight them down to nearly nothing before that point of time.

And I guess, it is not in the player's best interest to fight them down that much, because one can probably gain more from the Sid AIs' contributions throughout the game than what can be gained from having Internet 5-6 turns earlier...

I hadn't realized there was a prebuild going. But come to think of it, the leader is actually pretty useless.

Now we agree to 100%...

 

[templar_x]

And I guess, it is not in the player's best interest to fight them down that much, because one can probably gain more from the Sid AIs' contributions throughout the game than what can be gained from having Internet 5-6 turns earlier...

exactly. while it would be nice to use the ToE trick at the edge of Modern, which could at least buy you 8 turns plus nets you the Internet immediately, you could gain at least as much by just having the AS do some serious IA research.

t_x

 

[Bartleby]

Ok, how does this plan sound:

• The turn before finishing the last IA tech, we use the SGL to rush the Pallace in a city that has a higher rank than the city which is completing ToE the same interturn.
  ...
• Minituriazation finishes, we go into F1 one more time and switch the Pallace to Internet.
  

The leader shields count as tainted and you can't switch to the Internet. You need a properly timed manually-built prebuild.

 

[templar_x]

you sure? i have never seen that i cannot exchange a wonder build into another wonder build. however, i am playing with SGLs off so i can´t rule out that you are right.
t_x

 

[Lanzelot]

I would also be very surprised if this would really be the case; it doesn't make any sense?! (But then: that has never stopped a Firaxis programmer, has it... )

I guess we need to test...

 

[Bartleby]

Well, it happened to me once.

 

[Kulko]

He is definitely right. Tried it out in my first diplo HOF game and you can't switch after using the SGL

 

[templar_x]

so after SGL-rushing this won´t work?

palace (or any other small wonder?) -> Great Wonder

what about:

Great Wonder -> Great Wonder ?

of course there is no 1000 shield-wonder before Modern...

i mean, i do not really mind, as i dislike the SGL-concept anyway and have it always switched off...

t_x