Beelining Religion

[G-Max]

it's not hard to chop a Stonehenge if you always play at Noble.

No, but doing it reliably often means sacrificing something else, like that second Scout.

I'm just saying that if you start out with Mysticism and you don't have the Creative attribute, then founding an early religion, which can be done reliably as long as your opponents don't have an insane unfair advantage, can give you a significant edge without too much initial investment.

 

[Farm Boy]

That human reasoning is an insane unfair advantage to the AIs!

 

[G-Max]

Human reasoning is also subject to acts of absentmindedness or sometimes outright idiocy

I wouldn't call it an advantage.

 

[Ramesses-Rules]

Remember, Ramesses, that not everyone plays Spiritual leaders. Switching religions costs a turn of anarchy, which means you can't afford to do it frequently just to manipulate diplomacy.

I switch civics, but I would rarely switch religions more than once in the whole game. Normally, I would run the most diplomatically useful religion until I build all my cathedrals and commercial buildings and then switch to Free Religion if diplomatically feasible.

 

[Ramesses-Rules]

I don't know that many here have been trying to downplay the importance of religion, it is powerful and(hopefully) useful in every game. Most of the disagreement seems to be over if actually founding an early religion is wise. The research investment required and opportunity cost of an early religion rises with each difficulty level.

The problem is not that religion isn't powerful, it is that if your current game is a stretch then the secular route of research is usually more flexible. Founding one of the early 3 religions on emperor+ requires a research decision when hardly any scouting has been done. Even if it is only a one tech detour, a delayed worker tech can snowball extremely hard this early in the game.

I have played 1000s of games as Ramesses, and win consistently at all levels below Emperor when founding an early religion. If you are Spiritual and aiming for a Cultural Victory, delaying religion is a great handicap. However, at Emperor or higher, it is militarily unwise to found an early religion on many maps. We agree on that. What I was saying is that many players who play military civs and war-mongering tactics unqualifyingly tell all beginning players "don't found any early religion." I think that is bad advice, especially for Spiritualists.

I agree with the importance of scouting the neighborhood before you adopt a religion. Sometimes I will wait to adopt a religion I just founded. For example, if there are other religions on the continent, I might delay declaring my religion until after my big round of trades for Alphabet and until I have spread my religion to most of my cities and the bordering civilization.

 

[Farm Boy]

Human reasoning is also subject to acts of absentmindedness or sometimes outright idiocy

I wouldn't call it an advantage.

If you have watched the AI launch an intercontinental invasion, you know that the AI is absentminded and idiotic as well. Nothing like watching Monty unload a dozen catapults and forget to bring along any other troops.

 

[G-Max]

If you have watched the AI launch an intercontinental invasion, you know that the AI is absentminded and idiotic as well. Nothing like watching Monty unload a dozen catapults and forget to bring along any other troops.

But he's Monty. He's supposed to be crazy like that.