1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

Beginner questions..

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by iDagon, Apr 30, 2011.

  1. iDagon

    iDagon Chieftain

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2011
    Messages:
    53
    Location:
    Bucharest, Romania
    Hi all..

    I am a new "addition" civfanatics forum, been reading around for a while but I just made an acc to post..
    I play om noble-ish level, but there are some thing i just don't understand in this game.. I will make a list for convenience.. Thanks for all your imput.. :)

    * specialists. Ok, i can understand having some scientists around, but i don't understand how others can really help.. Maybe only to influence what GP you get.. Are they usefull?

    * culture victory. How the hehell can anyone acomplish this?! I got my capital to legendary many a times but not other cities.. The way I see it, i can't really get wonders if I try to build them in other cities. I will just lose them to the AI most of the time. The other way I can think of is Great Artists but you need like 35-40 of them it seems and i never manage to get so many whatever I do. This is related to:

    * city specialization. I read some guides on city spec on this forum. I can get commerce and prod cities relatively well (for my level), but not the GPP. I read that you just require food to run specs in that city. I tried that, however i allways run into some problems. Happiness is a major issue in this city as i need a large pop to work them farms AND specialists. I need to whip out most buildings aswell, as I tend to build only farms around this city (prob wrong) so more frownies! Also, there seems to bd only a couple of buildings that grant me specialists and if I want to switch from Great Scientists to Artists (example) i need a new set of buildings = less pop (whip) to run them.. I am truly confused.. :)

    * bulbing. I am not sure, but from what I saw, what Tech comes up on the bulb is not random. If so, is there a way to determine what will come up ahead of time?

    * AI traits. I watched some TMIT "let's play"s on YouTube and he speaks of "peace rates" ( i think) when thinking about diplomatic choices. Where can I find this kind of info about AI? Like tendencies and such..

    * don't know what this is, but sometimes, when I conquer a city, it just randomly razes itself without giving me the option.. Is this purely random, some bug, or is it smth I just have no knowledge about?

    I am sure there is much more but this is what i croped up for now.. All kind of help is appreciated.. Also, is any way to get some "coaching" from stronger players? I love the game but I can't stand that i don't dominate at it.. :) I come from a RTS competitive background so you can understand my drive. :)
     
  2. Kaosprophet

    Kaosprophet Warlord

    Joined:
    May 7, 2009
    Messages:
    244
    I'm not too familiar with the culture victory, but in basic terms it seems to go like this:
    Production city builds wonders. High food city runs Artist specialists. Commerce cities run commerce as usual, but once you've hit a sufficient tech position (have the wonders you need, and the military tech to defend) turn off research and put your money into the commerce slider instead.
    Plan to settle early great artists, but save later ones for "culture-bombs" to put the last city over the top.

    High-food *specials,* like irrigated corn, pigs, fish help you feed more specialists off fewer citizen workers. They also help you with growing back after whipping out infrastructure. After that, microing around the happy-cap helps as well; instead of growing into unhappiness, pull your farmers off for a few turns to 'starve' down the surplus - if you're close to popping a great-person, you can even starve off population to get him out sooner, and regrow after.

    There's various resources that help with increasing the happy-cap, as well as some infrastructure. Forges are particularly good, as they increase the benefit of gold/silver/gems while also boosting production for building the rest of what you need, though they do add unhealth to the city so you want to watch that.

    Switching to Caste system also helps once you've whipped out the basic infra you need, since it gives you unlimited slots for Scientists, Artists or Merchants. Less need to rush out specialist-enabling buildings that way, so you can just focus on the stuff that increases happiness or health.

    There's a set bulb-path for each specialist, which is detailed in this thread:
    http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=140952

    If a city has not yet grown to 2 population, or has not had a border expansion yet, it will automatically raze when captured.
     
  3. sadmachines

    sadmachines Warlord

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2010
    Messages:
    123
  4. MarigoldRan

    MarigoldRan WARLORD

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2011
    Messages:
    2,328
    Never EVER go for a culture victory on a speed setting slower than Normal. You won't get there. Theoretically, you could. But... you won't get there.

    Meh. My personal advice is to play Noble or Monarch and concentrate on bashing the computer's face in. Always a useful skill to learn. City specialization? Who cares. 8 cities work as well as 5 efficient cities. You tech slower, but if the comps around you are dead, it doesn't matter.

    Go read on War first. Then focus on the peace aspects. If you're focused on war, the only essentials you need to learn about peace is:

    1. Get granaries in all your cities if you're using slavery.
    2. Keep your population low by slave-rushing a two-or-three pop every 10 or 15 turns or so. Do it consistently over the course of the early and early-midgame. Build a settler or a worker from a city that you don't want to grow (I mean, you're probably going to need them anyways).
    3. Build barracks in all production cities.
    4. Work the important tiles.
    5. Chop for extra shields.
    6. War. War early. War often.

    Libraries? Markets? Who cares. Get them after you're at 12 cities. Maybe a library in the capital, but that's all. If you have more cities and population than any other civ, you're winning.
     
  5. iDagon

    iDagon Chieftain

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2011
    Messages:
    53
    Location:
    Bucharest, Romania
    Wow.. Swift answers.. Thanks..
    About citi spec, yeah, with Caste System I can get specialists, but i don't really use caste that much as i am not very good at specialist economy.. And to use Caste only for the GP farm seems like a waste..
    Plus, after emancipation strikes in, you are pretty much screwed with SE, it seems..

    Yes, I read through most of the War Academy but the questions were kind of random and speciffic so that is why i decided to ask them myself.. I can get a normal game going, it looks like civ4, anyway.. I was more interested in those speciffic things. Thanks anyway.. Will prob read it again after i gain a bit more knowledge from playing more.. :)

    @ MarigoldRain

    I don't want to sound diserpectfull but I am trying to actually learn the game and play better overall, not just stomp some AIs.. Yeah, I can also play at settler and win with only worriorsand one city but that is not the point.. I want to win this game consistently at Diety eventually, so I don't want to pick up bad habbits that work only at lower difficulties..
     
  6. lymond

    lymond Rise Up! (Phoenix Style!) Hall of Fame Staff

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2008
    Messages:
    22,009
    Welcome to the forum. Not sure if I totally follow your train of thought here but I will try to answer. Speaking for a strictly standard perspective, all GPs have some value but some are more important the others at a given point in the game. Scientists are generally better early to a) boost research b) get a first GS for an academy or strategic bulb. Merchants and GMs become more important later as you get more gold modifiers and bulbing becomes less valuable (GS's have the highest bulb value). GM trade missions for gold allow you to keep the sliders high or whatever else you need gold for - upgrades, bribes, etc. I use Great Artist mainly for Golden Ages unless going for Culture VC in which case they take priority. GEs obviously are good for rushing key wonders and can bulb some key early techs. Prophets for holy shrine, golden ages, or certain techs like Theology or DR if you go that route. Also, if you ran a World Wonder/Specialist economy with Representation, you will settle most of your specialists in one city. Bottom Line: Specialists and GPs are very important and learning to use them wisely is a good thing, but takes some time. Keep practicing and watch Let's plays.

    First thing to recommend is searching for "jesusin's" culture VC strat article. Best thing you can reference for culture victories. Quick down and dirty is that religion is important. You want at least 3 religions spread so that you can build all the religion wonders for culture modifiers. Spiritual is a good trait for fast temples and quick civic changes. Commerce is important and later the Free Speech civic. With developed commerce and running a high culture slider you can generate a lot of culture per turn with the modifiers. Corps like Sid Sushi can be good, although you can win culture before really get there. Oh...and a GP farm emphasizing great artists to bomb artists near the end to speed up the slower cities.

    First, there are 2 types of GP farms. The high food/low prod GP farm and the high prod Wonder Whore GP farm that hopefully has decent food too. Generally you want at least 3 high food specials (corn, pigs, fish,etc.). As for happiness, that is pretty simple, just run specialists and work lower food yield tiles or mines until you gain more happiness. Whipping the necessary buildings is fine - you don't ALWAYS have to have the city running tons of specialists -just run what you can at a given point in time. Early GP buildings are usually library, forge and market. With Caste System you can run as many merchants, scientists or artists as you can. What I like to do, as well as other experience players, is have the city run what it can for a while and then switch to Caste for the duration of a Golden Age and starve the city to get out GPs fast. Don't overthink it - just run what you can and then do quick boosts during Golden Ages. Often your first GP will come from you capital early game for that quick academy - maybe even your second GS before switching over to a decent GP farm site.

    BUG or BAT mod helps with this so I recommend using one of them. There are charts on this is well, but they can be a bit confusing. Some of it just comes with practice as you start to figure out what you need to bulb...say..Philosophy. OR what you should not tech to ensure the bulb path stays for a certain target for alternate strategies.

    I think TMIT was referring to "peace weights". I recommend find a post by Kossin and checking his sig. There is a link to some excel files that shows all of this stuff.

    If a city has not ever reached Size 2, it will automatically raze. All there is to it. If you want to....say...keep a new barb city that spawned, park outside of it until it hits size 2.

    I'd say that you should just keep following the S&T forums, watching Let's Plays, and joining in some fun with the forum series like Nobles Club. The best way to learn is to post a shadow game from the start and playing short intervals, posting reports, and waiting for advice. If you are patient, this approach will move you up VERY quickly if you stick with it.
     
  7. Inso

    Inso Warlord

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2009
    Messages:
    163
    With regards to GP farming, a very common trick is to build the Great Library and National Epic early as possible in a city and just run two scientists with it. Will give you a few early great scientists to help out without having to use caste. Better if marble is available but can still be done without with the aid of some chopped forests.
     
  8. lymond

    lymond Rise Up! (Phoenix Style!) Hall of Fame Staff

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2008
    Messages:
    22,009
    Caste is a very good late game civic and I often run it in lieu of Emancipation if I can avoid it. There are ways around the Emancipation hit, but not always. And don't discount the bonus on workshops. Workshop power is huge late game. You don't necessarily have to be running a true SE to use caste and no SE does not preclude running specialists.
     
  9. VoiceOfUnreason

    VoiceOfUnreason Deity

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2005
    Messages:
    3,663
    Heh - that was the question that brought me to CivFanatics. I found this thread to be the most useful.

    The War Academy has some other.

    For that approach, you do need to learn how to recognize and build a production city and or a tech lead.

    Shouldn't be too much of a problem - the key is that you are looking for a city that already has concentrated food - say, three big food resources (corn/pigs/fish). Each of those tiles can support two specialists by itself, and the city another. So this magic city would be running 7 specialists at size 10. You have lots of farms around the city so that you can grow quickly, but once you reach the target population, you hire the specialists and get going.

    As for slots, take a look at caste system.

    As for switching back and forth, that's not a particularly common issue - it's very common to want a scientist early, but usually any city with a library can get you that. So your GP farm tends to concentrate on the type of specialist you want all game long. Usually, that means scientists - but for a culture game, that means artists, so don't sweat the research buildings.
     
  10. VoiceOfUnreason

    VoiceOfUnreason Deity

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2005
    Messages:
    3,663
    Review "The Everyone's Guide..." linked in my signature.

    The easiest way is to play an open game, allowing readers to critique you. Roughly speaking, you
    1) post pictures of your current position
    2) write up your plan for the next 20-30 turns
    3) wait at least 6 hours while others make comments
    4) revise your plan to reflect the best of the advice you got
    5) play 20-30 turns
    6) Go to step 1.

    Step #3 is really important - if you like to play more often than that, best to play a private game on the side.
     
  11. lymond

    lymond Rise Up! (Phoenix Style!) Hall of Fame Staff

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2008
    Messages:
    22,009
    ^^^^this is the best advice you will get right here and the last note by VoU is important --that is, have patience
     
  12. iDagon

    iDagon Chieftain

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2011
    Messages:
    53
    Location:
    Bucharest, Romania
    @ lymond

    Hmm.. You said: " Merchants and GMs become more important later as you get more gold modifiers and bulbing becomes less valuable (GS's have the highest bulb value). GM trade missions for gold allow you to keep the sliders high or whatever else you need gold for - upgrades, bribes, etc."

    Then, is it more effective to switch from scientist specialists to merchants later on and get a higher beakers/turn value? Does the modifiers from commerce buildings (market and such) apply to the "commerce" that specialists give? I thought it only applied to what commerce (gold coins) was ilustrated on the tiles you work in that city.. I could have misunderstood you, though..

    Also lol at culture victory answers.. I am truly dumb.. It NEVER crossed my mind to make a production city one of the 3 legends. It can build wonders Fast and you can get some culture from it later of you order it to build said "culture".. I tried to get to legendary status only in my commerce and (the pathetic excuses) GP farms.. No wonder it seemed impossible..

    And you also mentioned "shadow games". Is that the same thing as what VoiceOfUnreason sugested?
     
  13. PeterWolf

    PeterWolf Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2008
    Messages:
    61
    The coins in the city tiles are called commerce - they get converted into research, culture, gold and espionage, according to the sliders.
    After that, the amount of each of those gets multiplied by the buildings you have in the city.
    Specialists don't provide commerce, they give straight science, gold, culture etc, which also get multiplied by buildings, but don't depend on the sliders on the first place.
     
  14. lymond

    lymond Rise Up! (Phoenix Style!) Hall of Fame Staff

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2008
    Messages:
    22,009
    @iDragon

    Pwolf pretty much answered the question regarding GMs and gold. Gold is Gold. Commerce is Commerce. Commerce is turn into gold via the slider at which point the gold modifiers go into effect. Merchants provide "static" (unchanging) gold that goes through gold modifiers as well but is not impacted by the sliders at all. Other static gold producers are holy shrines, religious buildings with Spiral, priests provide some, certain settled GPs, and Corps.

    Note that Commerce and Gold have different symbols in the game - the two are often confused though by newer players, even I was at one time.

    Yes, VoU and I were speaking the same language :)
     
  15. iDagon

    iDagon Chieftain

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2011
    Messages:
    53
    Location:
    Bucharest, Romania
    Thanks..

    I will try than open/shadow game thing.. Deffinetly sounds appealing.. So, is there some over-encompasing (sp?) thread where people can post smth like this, or do I just create a new thread and update it as I play?
     
  16. Ghpstage

    Ghpstage Deity

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2009
    Messages:
    2,944
    Location:
    Bristol, England
    Your best off creating a thread for your own game, there you will get more indivual attention and there won't be the threat of getting lost in the sea of posts in something like the noble's club.
    Though trying some noble's club games as well will likely be beneficial, as you can find other peoples saves to see how they played and compare it to your own game.
     
  17. Habitus

    Habitus Emperor

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2011
    Messages:
    1,138
    Location:
    UK
  18. AutomatedTeller

    AutomatedTeller Frequent poster

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2006
    Messages:
    7,540
    Location:
    Medford, MA
    Specialists are mainly useful for GPP points. But they are, on their own, useful.

    Merchants: Running a bunch of merchant specialists can make a difference of 10-20% in the research slider, if that's important
    Artists: can be the easiest way to a border pop
    Engineers: More hammers to hammer-poor cities.
    Priests: mix of engineer/merchants. However, with Angkor Wat, better than an engineer
    Spy: Spies specialists are the easiest way to get espionage points early in the game.
     
  19. MarigoldRan

    MarigoldRan WARLORD

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2011
    Messages:
    2,328
    Depending on what settings you choose, you can't win consistently on Diety.

    A lot of the tactics that work on immortal work on the higher levels too, but with modifications. Few workers is a tactic Diety-level players are more likely to try than Monarch or Emperor.
     
  20. Mylene

    Mylene Deity

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2011
    Messages:
    4,000
    Location:
    Pangea
    Easy tip from me: play Immortal, and see why the tips you are reading about are needed on high diff.
    I believe that in most games, playing lower diff. only "teaches" bad habbits like not focusing on doing important things fast.
    That is no problemo if you are not aiming high, but think i did read you want to beat Deity maybe.
    In this case you should save yourself the headaches to learn the game on lower diff., just to find out later that most of the strats you got used to only hurt you now :)
     

Share This Page