Best civ for Deity Domination?

[Deau]

I'm new to Deity play, got my lifetime first Deity win through a domination game as Japan. Maltz 1vs7 tackle got me motivated. Yet, all along the game, it felt as if the Mongols' Khan(which I played up to immortal) would've given me a much more significant edge.

On top of those 2, it feels as though Shongai's unique trait basically gives you a free win if your first rush is succesful through ******** wealth.

So I was wondering what the community thought/prefered for Deity domination games. Feel free to discuss other less obvious warmongers like France/Greece/Montezuma.

Last, I would like to know if warmongers go liberty-citizenship-meritocracy(and specify what you do with the free GP) or do honor-GG-1.5 exp. On my succesful shot at it I did the honor setup to rush March promotions but I have been wondering meritocracy could be competitive.

I generally go for single city (possibly 2nd city settled atop 6-unit iron if I couldn't complete a 6-iron CS quest to save the gold) NC/Heroic Epic/~4 warrior rush pre RA sling-shot to Steel.

 

[pirsq]

Japan, Mongolia and China are the obvious choices.

A surprisingly good late-game warmongering civ is Persia. If you time your golden ages right, you can have +1 movement and +10% combat strength for the entire duration of a war. Upgraded immortals are among the best rifleman-line units in the game - once you get march (if you don't go to war early game, you can XP farm a CS to get 3-4 with 100xp), they really do become immortal, with +4hp every turn you end in friendly territory (which synergises very well with +1 movement and the blitz promotion they'll soon get). Finally, +2 happiness banks are pretty awesome for conquest, since puppets will always build a bank eventually.

 

[Pazyryk]

I always think Rome is a little underestimated. You essentially get +25% production across your growing puppet empire, which is not a small thing. It's hard to get their two unique units into the action before they are superseded. But if you have a close neighbor, they can do the trick to get your puppet empire started a little earlier than most other civs. But if you can't get to iron with your 2nd city, a restart is probably necessary.

 

[MadDjinn]

You can go domination with every civ. The tactics to get there are sometimes different though.

Sometimes you'll want to use tech advantages to hit higher units faster (there are a lot of UUs at Ironworking->Steel + Chivalry) and other times you should grab meritocracy to leap there instead.

In certain cases, this is actually more important (US/Ottomans for faster gunpowder) to use RAs heavily and pause the fighting.

Egypt is a bit harder to tie into this, so hard pumping the defensive wonders (great wall, HC, Kremlin - maybe AW) lets you force the AI to fight in your lands so that you can kill their units then walk over and take their cities.

Others have cultural advantages and can hard push into the SPs to give a decent advantage.

But for all domination strats.. you need to get RAs going and keep a few friends around to get more RAs. (aside from specific challenges) Or ensure to setup GS pumps along the way for the free GSs. You never want to see the AI with artillery before you unless you're about to grab it.

 

[Pazyryk]

Another "not best" but probably underestimated civ is England. On many map scripts, 70% or more of the capitals are on the coast. Prioritize Navigation and get 5 Ship-of-the-Lines out as fast as possible. That, plus a couple grunts, can pretty much clean up those coastal cities. Take capitals and key-resource cities only. They can get there quick and not get bogged down in the "swarm of land units" that the AI produces at Immortal+ difficulty. (Not a big fan of archery units myself but I sure have been annoyed at opposing Longbowman, so I guess they could be put to good use too.)

 

[vexing]

mongols. no question.

the only unmentioned civ i'd also recommend are the aztecs. jaguars upgraded are amazing.

 

[Deau]

mongols. no question.

the only unmentioned civ i'd also recommend are the aztecs. jaguars upgraded are amazing.

I have been looking in depth at unique units to see which early unit retained their unique ability through upgrades and the +2 heal uppon killing an enemy unit from jags really sounds cool especially to smash the opponents' swarm early after the DoW. On the other hand, I'm scared at puppets' super growth because of the aztecs' UB. Happiness is already very often delaying my attacks increasing the risk of having outdated units.

I always think Rome is a little underestimated. You essentially get +25% production across your growing puppet empire, which is not a small thing. It's hard to get their two unique units into the action before they are superseded. But if you have a close neighbor, they can do the trick to get your puppet empire started a little earlier than most other civs. But if you can't get to iron with your 2nd city, a restart is probably necessary.

The 25% production looks wonderful but their units get outdated very fast. I have yet to test wether the balistae retains it's 30% bonus vs cities through upgrades though as this could become major with early cannons and early artillery. On the other hand my current strat has no siege weapons on the first rush and I very often get trebuchets for the second rush and I don't remember if catapults(or balistae) can still be built after discovering trebuchets' tech

Japan, Mongolia and China are the obvious choices.

A surprisingly good late-game warmongering civ is Persia. If you time your golden ages right, you can have +1 movement and +10% combat strength for the entire duration of a war. Upgraded immortals are among the best rifleman-line units in the game - once you get march (if you don't go to war early game, you can XP farm a CS to get 3-4 with 100xp), they really do become immortal, with +4hp every turn you end in friendly territory (which synergises very well with +1 movement and the blitz promotion they'll soon get). Finally, +2 happiness banks are pretty awesome for conquest, since puppets will always build a bank eventually.

How do you manage to keep up with the comps tech-wise and army-wise though if you can only do your first push after getting rifling?

 

[vexing]

IOn the other hand, I'm scared at puppets' super growth because of the aztecs' UB. Happiness is already very often delaying my attacks increasing the risk of having outdated units.

the aztec ua has a great synergy with puppet empires; if you can manage to gain a puppet empre with a single city, you can get theocracy and freedom really early for big happiness boosts.

all catapults and trebuchets have a bonus vs cities, which stacks with a smaller bonus vs cities that cannons get. getting a few trebuchets up before you hit chemistry makes breaking cities easy.

 

[Martin Alvito]

the only unmentioned civ i'd also recommend are the aztecs. jaguars upgraded are amazing.

Babylon. Quick Steel/Rifle bulbs are nasty.

 

[Pazyryk]

I know my Rome and England picks are unorthodox, but I'm surprised that Songhai isn't in the top 3 or 4 (I'd put below Mongols but above all others). Take Collective Rule for 3rd policy and Legalism for 4th (be sure to get Philosophy first). You can have 4 cities very early with +5 culture each (you don't need to build monuments first). Build only core 4 cities and then puppet all others. Your puppets will also build MPMs pretty early. This is the best civ for warmongering while advancing quickly through the social policies. Horse rush is effective and the city bonus caries through to tanks (though you can get by without horses with cultural advantage).

 

[MadDjinn]

Babylon. Quick Steel/Rifle bulbs are nasty.

I somewhat lump them in with the 'tech hard' group. The civs in that group can fly up to rifles/cannons well before the AI and therefore just run everyone over. By the time the AI catches up, you're looking at Artillery.

I have been looking in depth at unique units to see which early unit retained their unique ability through upgrades and the +2 heal uppon killing an enemy unit from jags really sounds cool especially to smash the opponents' swarm early after the DoW. On the other hand, I'm scared at puppets' super growth because of the aztecs' UB. Happiness is already very often delaying my attacks increasing the risk of having outdated units.

mongols. no question.

the only unmentioned civ i'd also recommend are the aztecs. jaguars upgraded are amazing.

mongols ftw mostly.

Aztecs... +2 heal upon kill is awesome. Well worth making 8-10 of them before metal casting if you can afford to do it. then tap longswords and keep plowing.

The big issues with the aztec UB is what was already stated. the puppets will build it, so getting a single city to high pop is really hard when your happiness is constantly taking a hit. (Monarchy/Theocracy really helps there, but it can only go so far when your puppets are hitting a new pop every few turns)

 

[vexing]

Babylon. Quick Steel/Rifle bulbs are nasty.

with all the gauntlet playing i've been doing, i've forgotten about the excluded dlc civs

I'm surprised that Songhai isn't in the top 3 or 4 (I'd put below Mongols but above all others).

they are

 

[Deau]

I'm surprised that Songhai isn't in the top 3 or 4 (I'd put below Mongols but above all others).

I will dare answering most warmongers don't go the mounted way and feel as though their UU is wasted but the leader trait is so strong and UB is also pretty for keeping up on SPs I really need to give it a shot .

On another note, I hope they add a Medic II promotion at some point in time as a rival to Khans. Sure it's a big sacrifice to get 1 or 2 units 2 levels into healing but at least it would feel as though there is a way to catch up w khans'

 

[MadDjinn]

I will dare answering most warmongers don't go the mounted way and feel as though their UU is wasted but the leader trait is so strong and UB is also pretty for keeping up on SPs I really need to give it a shot .

On another note, I hope they add a Medic II promotion at some point in time as a rival to Khans. Sure it's a big sacrifice to get 1 or 2 units 2 levels into healing but at least it would feel as though there is a way to catch up w khans'

Heading fast to Lancers might fix the Khan issue. (this is MP so wait for them to move in range before coming at them)

 

[roguepro92]

mongolians if you like dragged out wars because of the epic healing of Khans.
china if you want to push push push push.
both civs have some neckbreaking generals so. i ussually go with mongolian tho. kesh so overpowered

 

[Deau]

mongolians if you like dragged out wars because of the epic healing of Khans.
china if you want to push push push push.
both civs have some neckbreaking generals so. i ussually go with mongolian tho. kesh so overpowered

I really don't like the state of ranged units atm. The lack of upgrades past the medieval era makes them grow weaker and weaker. For example, I was having a total blast doing Chu-Ko-Nu rush as China but as soon as you get rifling, the chus become completely useless as all of their promotions become rather useless. +65% ranged strength on open terrain and +1 range blows for melee doesn't it? Now that's 4 levels and a tons of exp so for your newly upgraded ranged to catch up to a decent state of melee unit, it takes forever. It has litterally lead me away from many very cool UU (CKN-Keshiks-Longbowman to only name a few). Keshiks obviously fit in the same line, they get ranged promotions and then upgrade into cossacks making all of their promotions useless. The only thing worthwhile that they retain is their innate UA of double GG exp rate.

I really hope they add a post-medieval ranged unit line. I saw someone had made a mod with I think he had called it skirmisher - sniper - something sniper. It looked like a very cool mod 'till he said UA were no longer retained through unit upgrades -_-.

Ultimately though it really does feel as if a ranged unit line in late game would add a very nice dimension to both offensive and defensive strategies. Hell, just looking at how england uses their Longbowman defensively in medieval - early renaissance (they're so f awful to try to kill in this era) gives a good insight.

 

[iamandrebulatov]

Hey all! I'm so confused by your responses! I'm new to Deity and new to this forum - so new I often get lost in the acronyms.

Just tried Deity yesterday for first time after rocking it in Immortal with Greece domination in an all-Standard Continents game. On Deity, I couldn't survive my first 5 tries past like 30 turns until I switched gameplay to archipelago. Now Im playing with France in Archipelago, hoping to to survive with Frigates... haven't really thought it through past survival.

Please help me understand a couple things, I really want to step my game up and get better at deity.

Some things confused me by your responses:
- "Build 2nd city on iron"? What? How? In my Deity-France-Archipelago game I'm already at Frigates, just researched Iron only to find that I have none, and I already have a decent sized territory with like 6 or 7 cities!
- Mongols? Really? With my untrained eye, they seem weak...
- Is there a god guide you can suggest for Social Policy development?
- Also, I've never tried OCC but I am really intrigued in the challenge... can you recommend a guide for that? This gameplay style seems so foreign to me...

I honestly don't even know how I beat immortal, this forum makes me feel like below newbie.

 

[Deau]

Holy crap this is one old thread brought back to life. This must've been one of my first 50 posts on this forum o.o

I was like wth I never wrote that thread (when I saw it come up top)

Do you play Vanilla, GnK or BnW? Because the game has significantly changed many times and everything you read in this thread goes back to early vanilla where it was quite easy to manage quick rush with a big tech edge due to the way RAs worked as well as GS bulbs. Even those mechanics got changed through patches during vanilla.

Anyway I'll try to give somewhat generic pointers to your questions:

If you plan to do a frigate rush, you need to tech to Iron earlier and possibly forward settle to grab iron. In that scenario, settling directly on top of the resource can be fine if you can't spare the workers to go improve this cities' tile before you need your iron to be online. If all iron tiles that you can sail to are already taken, begin to look for CSs that can provide you iron very early. 6 iron should be plenty for frigate rush regardless of the expansion you play.

Mongols were always strong and still are. The Keshiks can hit and run and get double promos really fast. Basically the strat has always been the same. Get sources for 6-8 horses and beeline chivalry. You will want to have 6-8 prebuilt horsemens. 5-7 of which you will upgrade to keshiks with gold upon teching, 1-2 that you want to leave as horsemen to take the city when its at 0 health. Cities with 0 health left even with 150 strength will still lose to a horseman, they will bring it to 1 hp however so really early in the keshiks war, you often can drop cities from 100-0 in 2 turns.

SPs have always been somewhat situational and very strategy dependant. There are many discussions about SP on this forum but to point towards any, you will need to tell whether you play vanilla, gnk or bnw.

OCC, same as above, the occ metagame has changed a good amount since vanilla. Sadato's OCC science victory (GnK version) could probably provide some good pointers regardless of what expansion you play.

 

[Fire0rb]

I read the thread without noticing the dates and thought "hmmm missing a lot" but it was Vanilla and GnK time...
The civs mentionend above are still strong but some ridicolous civs have been added with dlcs and BNW like Zulus and Ashurbanipal.

The rest of the questions are answered by Deau already completely correctly so nothing to add

 

[njmfff]

Japan, Mongolia and China are the obvious choices.

A surprisingly good late-game warmongering civ is Persia. If you time your golden ages right, you can have +1 movement and +10% combat strength for the entire duration of a war. Upgraded immortals are among the best rifleman-line units in the game - once you get march (if you don't go to war early game, you can XP farm a CS to get 3-4 with 100xp), they really do become immortal, with +4hp every turn you end in friendly territory (which synergises very well with +1 movement and the blitz promotion they'll soon get). Finally, +2 happiness banks are pretty awesome for conquest, since puppets will always build a bank eventually.

Persia is awesome even in early wars.

and I know most people don't like them, but Ottomans can be good warmongers if map is right (like continents). Janissary are just overkill sometimes, and Sipahi are great for hit-pillage-run tactics.

Their UA isn't all that great tho. Sure reduced bonus to naval maintenance is nice, maybe it's just my luck, but I've never managed to capture enemy ships even if you have almost 50% chance to do it.

and Assyria isn't bad as warmonger, even later in the game due to their UA. AI loves to spam bunch of cities that have low defence\pop, and if they happen to be few techs in front of you, those are free techs you can get.