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Best National Wonder?

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by CYZ, Jun 3, 2011.

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Which National Wonder is second best (compared to the National College)?

  1. Circus Maximus

    16 vote(s)
    10.0%
  2. Hermitage

    24 vote(s)
    15.0%
  3. Heroic Epic

    9 vote(s)
    5.6%
  4. Ironworks

    66 vote(s)
    41.3%
  5. National Epic

    2 vote(s)
    1.3%
  6. National Treasury

    11 vote(s)
    6.9%
  7. Oxford University

    17 vote(s)
    10.6%
  8. I don't consider the National College to be the best National Wonder

    11 vote(s)
    6.9%
  9. Other answers

    4 vote(s)
    2.5%
  1. CYZ

    CYZ Toileteer

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    I'm pretty sure 9 outof 10 people considers the National College to be the most powerfull National Wonder. What I'm wondering which National Wonder do you see as second best and why? Do you think National Wonders are imbalanced?


    I personally think National College is perhaps slightly too strong. It comes very early, has a powerfull effect and gives science, which is perhaps the most important resource in the game.

    The only national wonder able to compete is the Ironworks but it's still relatively late. You'll probably have more cities by then making it harder to get. It's also spread over two techs which I don't prioritize when not going millitary whereas I'll always want writing.

    Please discuss how you feel about the NC compared to other national wonders. Do you feel the rest are too weak or situational?
     
  2. ColinTH

    ColinTH Prince

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    I have taken to playing One City Challenges of late, so all Naional Wonders have a very significant importance.

    I don't go for any World Wonders before Renaissance, so this is the order I go for National Wonders.

    1 National college
    2 Treasury
    3 Iron works
    4 Heroic Epic
    The others I fit in whenever i get the chance.

    If I am not playing OCC the order is this.

    1 National college
    2 Heroic Epic
    3 Iron Works
    The others are situational.

    I totally agree with your view on the NC, it is extremely important at high levels.

    I didn't know there is a poll.

    Playing for culture - Hermitage beats the NC.

    Playing for domination - Heroic Epic.

    My vote is National Epic, it's very useful whatever type of victory you are playing for.
     
  3. SS-18 ICBM

    SS-18 ICBM Oscillator

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    I never got the impression you were supposed to build all the National Wonders anyway. Maybe if you're a tall, small empire that needs to catch up. That said, I think the second best for me is the Circus Maximus, easy to get since I'm building Colosseums everywhere anyway and I need the happiness most of the time. Third would be the Ironworks, since Workshops are important and it gives a sizable benefit. Then the National Epic (need those Great Scientists), National Treasury, and Oxford University. I never seem to consider Barracks important enough, so the Heroic Epic is the most useless Nat'l Wonder to me. Maybe when I play as Russia I'll consider it.
     
  4. Save_Ferris

    Save_Ferris Admiring Myself

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    Hermitage if you like your cultural wins to only have one city, like me.
     
  5. urbancamper

    urbancamper Chieftain

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    The ironworks is the one that I build the next most after NC, but it's a luxury, not a necessity, IMO. I had to vote for hermitage, because it's the only other one that's actually a necessity in any situation at all (in an OCC cultural game, and even most two-four city cultural games).
     
  6. M_Sparkle

    M_Sparkle Chieftain

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    Have to agree 100%, iron works:c5production: is also great on OCC but this is the must have for a culture victory:c5culture:!
     
  7. Camikaze

    Camikaze Administrator Administrator

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    A few of them can have quite good uses, such as the Ironworks and Hermitage which is vital to cultural victory as mentioned (all the national wonders are going to be more useful in a game with less cities, though, because you're more likely to be able to actually get them all). I guess Circus Maximus is particularly weak (but helpful if you're having happiness issues). And I would agree that none come close to the NC. Even in an OOC cultural game, you're going to want the NC just as much as you want the Hermitage (or else you're going to be pretty damn technologically backward).
     
  8. Tabarnak

    Tabarnak Cut your lousy hairs!

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    What a hard question. I even considerated the National College to almost be 2nd or maybe 3rd...i stayed here for 5 min and thinking....

    I asked to myself : What NW can be gamebreaking in a multiplayer game?

    For those who are not used to this mode, beware that the National College start is OFTEN NOT OPTIMAL. In fact, more cities you have better you can survive, and fast. With lot of cities, the NC has a few impact on your technology. But NC can be build so early that it's almost impossible to consider this NW to be second or third. So i let the NC in first place especially for his lengh of usefulness.

    What is important is production, gold and science(especially great scientists) coming from your whole empire. But a NW doesn't bring much of these but they still have some importance because they actually act like getting 1 free city!

    I almost took the Ironworks. This NW can cut a few turns from some units produced in the ren. era and later. But is this game breaking? Hmm no....

    What NW can bring you an edge? What NW can add you a fairly big advantage? I found it...OXFORD UNIVERSITY. Yes. Why?

    Because it brings litterally a big 8-9 turns of a situationnal tech lead. It's a free gs, and god they are strong in mp. When i can get artillery before 1200 AD in a mp game(no RAs or such thing to accelerate teching), you can be sure that the game is won.

    When 4-5 artys are walking over the map, i get an orgasm! :lol:
     
  9. Save_Ferris

    Save_Ferris Admiring Myself

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    Imo, Oxford is one of the worst. It comes so late that it will likely cost way too much. It gives a "meh" bonus unless you tech block. It requires a high-cost building in every city.
     
  10. Tabarnak

    Tabarnak Cut your lousy hairs!

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    In sp mode it's only useful at the end(if going for all victories except a fast dom. win), but many NW are way better. You can't compare mp and sp mode for many reasons.

    For sp mode i think the Ironworks is the best because you can build it earlier without much consequences.
     
  11. GenjiKhan

    GenjiKhan Emperor

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    NE and Circus Maximus are great for Domination.
    Hermitage is like a must have for cultural victory.
    National Treasury looks like good for Diplomatic victory and maybe for Cultural Victory to supply Cultural City States.

    All the other NW are good for any kind of victory,I think(speacially Ironworks,that looks like a extra factory unlocked at Medieval Era).
     
  12. TPQ

    TPQ Cogito Ergo Civ

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    Oddly enough I picked Oxford, yet I've never played a multi-player game. Hmm. Looks like I've it got wrong. The ironworks is by far the most popular.
     
  13. Bungle

    Bungle Chieftain

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    I think for me it's a tie between Ironworks and Heroic Epic. They are both very useful, especially if they are built early.
     
  14. elprofesor

    elprofesor Pluri-editing poster

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    I voted for the Oxford University too. Granted, you won't be able to build it soon, but if timed correctly, you can pop an expensive tech anytime for that extra military tech lead, from riflemen to artillery or mech infantry, which are all huge steps in military power.
     
  15. ColinTH

    ColinTH Prince

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    The reason I voted National Epic is this - Let's assume on a Marathon game you need 2700 points for your last Great person (the Ninth GP), and you have aquired the NE from more or less the outset, then without it you would have aquired two less Great people!
     
  16. Save_Ferris

    Save_Ferris Admiring Myself

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    The Ironworks is popular because you're probably going to build a workshop in all of your cities anyway. And no matter what victory you're going for, it's helpful. However, the Hermitage, as some have pointed out above, is essential, if only for one type of victory.
     
  17. bryanw1995

    bryanw1995 Emperor

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    I voted for oxford by mistake. Here's my ranking:

    1. NC
    2. IW
    3. HE
    4. everything else depends upon situation

    NC and IW are great for the entire game and don't require any sort of special or different playstyle for you to get them. HE is always useful. For the others, situationally I might build 2-3 of them or none depending upon the game.
     
  18. MadDjinn

    MadDjinn Deity

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    menh... NC isn't overpowered. It's the equalizer in SP for the early game to the AI's stupid bonuses. (on higher levels) You can catch up to the AI, tech wise, by Renassiance if you use it + either scholasticism or RAs. But unless you keep going with RA power, they'll just blast ahead at that point. (all else being equal in a peaceful game)

    Other than that... Circus maximus is good if you don't have an average of 1 type of lux/city. (being stuck with 8 of one type doesn't make for good happiness).

    Ironworks is generally always built just to be able to speed production.

    the National Treasury is really nice when you're in a non-river territory. the gold bump can mean the difference between a few units and a lot of units.

    hermitage is generally only for culture, though if you've kept a really small empire, it's worth it to be able to get the Renassiance/etc SPs a lot faster. The national epic is situational. OCC sure. large empire? not really since you'll pull one GS/city and that's it.

    Oxford is definitely useful, but it's about the choice of 'when' to get the free tech. It's a free tech that no one can take from you, so that's nice.
     
  19. clearbeard

    clearbeard King

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    I find the Heroic Epic highly useful. It's fairly easy to build at a point you have only 2-3 cities, so you're not building many useless barracks (and can immediately sell the other 1-2). I find I only ever use 1 city to build units in anyway, so a +15% strength across my whole army comes in very handy. Not National College powerful (which I most often build before a second city, even), but a nice bonus you can't get any other way. The others are okay, but the bonuses are rather underwhelming. And if I build Oxford, it's often a race to see if I can complete it before running out of techs to research.
     
  20. NukeAJS

    NukeAJS King

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    I'm surprised the national epic only has two votes. It's definitely my third favorite behind the NC and IWs.
     

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