Best Naval Civ?

[Zenstrive]

Why, the best naval Civ would be the one who can pray ships to existence, reach to the sky and lo and behold, Jongs are falling from the sky, under radiant shine of the gods, ready to weave among the kampongs, to take other's coastal cities fast and early.

 

[Sostratus]

Jongs are falling from the sky,

I forgot about this until I just rolled an Indo game tonight - Jongs not only come at mercenaries (an era earlier than square rigging) but they don't cost resources.
Quite the unit, and if you can pick up a couple choice great admirals era to really make them scary- one of the first ones has the ability to form a fleet, some grant promotions. By the middle ages you can, without too much work, setup a pair of level 4 jong fleets. 65str, 3 range... tally ho, lads!

 

[bengalryan9]

I forgot about this until I just rolled an Indo game tonight - Jongs not only come at mercenaries (an era earlier than square rigging) but they don't cost resources.
Quite the unit, and if you can pick up a couple choice great admirals era to really make them scary- one of the first ones has the ability to form a fleet, some grant promotions. By the middle ages you can, without too much work, setup a pair of level 4 jong fleets. 65str, 3 range... tally ho, lads!

The one time I played Indonesia I even started near the Natural Wonder that grants an instant promotion to ships that sail next to it! Was glorious. I even had the old Earth Goddess pantheon so I was swimming in faith. Really fun civ to play.

 

[Archon_Wing]

The best naval bonus is Japan because they don't get crippled by coastal bias, and can just expand to the coast when they're ready. Also remember all early water combat happens in shallow water, and their archers on the coast are more effective at taking out water units.

They also get good harbors, which is sort of the point of settling on the coast to begin with...


With the new IZs their coastal cities are also capable of better production.

It's similar to how Arabia does not waste resources on founding a religion.

 

[MarigoldRan]

Kinda funny how almost no one is saying Dido.

 

[Ziad]

Kinda funny how almost no one is saying Dido.

Pretty sure it was covered that Phoenicia is the best for early expansion and economy.

I know people here are obsessed with tier lists and tile yield porn, but the fact is what is "best" depends on your gameplay paradigms.

Here's how I would classify them with a "tier" list for England, Indonesia, Norway, and Phoenicia (the most naval focused civs).

Offensive Naval Warfare: Norway = England > Indonesia = Phoenicia
Defensive Naval Warfare: Phoenicia > England > Norway = Indonesia
Expansion: Phoenicia >= Indonesia > England > Norway
Trade: Phoenicia > England > Indonesia = Norway
Development: Indonesia > England = Phoenicia > Norway
Pillaging: Norway >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> others
etc...

And then even that changes based on map settings.

Pangaea/Continents/Seven Seas => England bias
Small Continents => Phoenicia/Norway bias
Island Plates => Indonesia bias

So if I want to say what is the best naval civ from a consistency standpoint, I'll say if you want to fight a lot, go for England (conquest) or Norway (small core with pillaging). If you want peaceful expansion with occasional headbutting, go Phoenicia (early expansion and trade) or Indonesia (city development). Ultimately they all pretty much play very differently, and the best part is you can do anything you want because nobody else can match you on the sea.

 

[Zenstrive]

I forgot about this until I just rolled an Indo game tonight - Jongs not only come at mercenaries (an era earlier than square rigging) but they don't cost resources.
Quite the unit, and if you can pick up a couple choice great admirals era to really make them scary- one of the first ones has the ability to form a fleet, some grant promotions. By the middle ages you can, without too much work, setup a pair of level 4 jong fleets. 65str, 3 range... tally ho, lads!

Add Hallicarnisus wonder and tally ho, Armada of Jongs.

 

[Kurnn]

There isnt a "best" naval civ anymore.

Mali is good for naval, since they get a very strong start. And other civs has unique features that relates to navy and coast as well.
But it so much depends on your game!

Norway is powerful in their navy because they can raid with their ships! Pillage AND steal workers/settlers.
But all civs can be powerful in the sea. It ....depends.

Natural wonders and City states, CAN give quite interesting and good bonuses for navy.

 

[Vincent_lacruz]

Pretty sure it was covered that Phoenicia is the best for early expansion and economy.

I know people here are obsessed with tier lists and tile yield porn, but the fact is what is "best" depends on your gameplay paradigms.

Here's how I would classify them with a "tier" list for England, Indonesia, Norway, and Phoenicia (the most naval focused civs).

Offensive Naval Warfare: Norway = England > Indonesia = Phoenicia
Defensive Naval Warfare: Phoenicia > England > Norway = Indonesia
Expansion: Phoenicia >= Indonesia > England > Norway
Trade: Phoenicia > England > Indonesia = Norway
Development: Indonesia > England = Phoenicia > Norway
Pillaging: Norway >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> others
etc...

And then even that changes based on map settings.

Pangaea/Continents/Seven Seas => England bias
Small Continents => Phoenicia/Norway bias
Island Plates => Indonesia bias

So if I want to say what is the best naval civ from a consistency standpoint, I'll say if you want to fight a lot, go for England (conquest) or Norway (small core with pillaging). If you want peaceful expansion with occasional headbutting, go Phoenicia (early expansion and trade) or Indonesia (city development). Ultimately they all pretty much play very differently, and the best part is you can do anything you want because nobody else can match you on the sea.

As for defensive naval warfare, indonesia has a great tool in being able to buy naval units with faith. They can therefore surprise their opponent an produce a large amount of boats, since you can know the amount of gold an opponent has, but not how much faith. It is inferior to Phoenicia (especially that heal...) but I don't think it is inferior to england and norway.

 

[Kurnn]

Phoenicia HUGE advantage is to build settlers quick.

 

[Ziad]

As for defensive naval warfare, indonesia has a great tool in being able to buy naval units with faith. They can therefore surprise their opponent an produce a large amount of boats, since you can know the amount of gold an opponent has, but not how much faith. It is inferior to Phoenicia (especially that heal...) but I don't think it is inferior to england and norway.

Well I specified it as being as good as Norway (not inferior) but the reason I put England ahead is that its bonuses are simply more reliable for defensive warfare, in both production and the RND. Faith is great (I use it in all my strategies) but Indonesia's ideal locations are already district limited and unless you are specifically going for many Holy Sites you wont be swamped with enough faith to get that many ships out of it.

If you do, then I agree that it's definitely on par with England, but unlike England it would come at a relative cost.

 

[Ziad]

Phoenicia HUGE advantage is to build settlers quick.

Tbh I have a feeling people just put in a Magnus in Tyre and spam settlers out of it only with Ancestral Hall, not utilizing the 50% settler production in the satellite cities to spread from there. That's where the real strength lies.

 

[Kurnn]

Tbh I have a feeling people just put in a Magnus in Tyre and spam settlers out of it only with Ancestral Hall, not utilizing the 50% settler production in the satellite cities to spread from there. That's where the real strength lies.

I think you are correct. But I think its even worse.....most dont know about their civs strenghts lol.
I get the impression that a majority of players only look for what they like.

Ooooohhh, Rome has a strong Swordsman that can build and repair! I want that!
....Totally neglecting Romes true powerful effect, hah.

 

[Ziad]

I think you are correct. But I think its even worse.....most dont know about their civs strenghts lol.
I get the impression that a majority of players only look for what they like.

Ooooohhh, Rome has a strong Swordsman that can build and repair! I want that!
....Totally neglecting Romes true powerful effect, hah.

And most people like tile yields.

 

[Troy Bruckner]

Well I specified it as being as good as Norway (not inferior) but the reason I put England ahead is that its bonuses are simply more reliable for defensive warfare, in both production and the RND. Faith is great (I use it in all my strategies) but Indonesia's ideal locations are already district limited and unless you are specifically going for many Holy Sites you wont be swamped with enough faith to get that many ships out of it.

If you do, then I agree that it's definitely on par with England, but unlike England it would come at a relative cost.

Whenever I play England there is never and I mean never a second continent that is remotely accessible during the classic age.

 

[cvb]

And most people like tile yields.

You mean tiles with overweight?!

Sigh, once upon a time there were Civ games, whose hills had +1 production in exchange for -1 food in respect to flatlands. And, believe it or not, they started nearly unplayable: "Despotism is the initial government form in Civilization. All tiles that produce 3 or more of a yield have a -1 penalty of that yield."

.

 

[Troy Bruckner]

You mean tiles with overweight?!

Sigh, once upon a time there were Civ games, whose hills had +1 production in exchange for -1 food in respect to flatlands. And, believe it or not, they started nearly unplayable: "Despotism is the initial government form in Civilization. All tiles that produce 3 or more of a yield have a -1 penalty of that yield."

.

The tile yields in Civ 6 are pretty insane at times. 22+ production from a desert tile lol